Need SOOOO much help!

[lorettasweet]

OK, So this is the 3rd year we've had out pool. 27" above ground. We were told by some local folks (live in KY) last fall that they leave all their equipment out for the Winter. So for the sake of being lazy, we did the same. We've tried to start opening out pool this week. First the pump cover was messed up and had to get a new one. We filled the pool up today and when I went to first backwash I noticed the Pressure gadge wasn't working so I guess the Winter killed it too.

So first question, are they replaceable? How do I go about finding one? It's a hayward pump and sand filter. (I think).

Next question, after I backwashed a few minutes, I turned to rinse for 30 seconds or so, then to filter just to make sure everything was working ok. It seemed to be for a few minutes, but then I noticed the little BULB on the side of the filter would lose the water when it was on filter. It starts out full, then slowely runs out. Does this mean my filter isn't full of water?

Anyway, once I figure out if everything is running ok, then I have 200 questions on how to get the green nasty soup cleaned up inside the pool! haha. Thanks for the help, I wanted to start early this year to give me time to get everything cleared up. Thanks in advance for the help.

[Poconos]

That little bulb, a.k.a. sight glass, looks at what is going out the waste or discharge port. At least on my Hayward multi-port valve. It's used to determine when the water is clear in backwash mode. When you're on FILTER then the sight glass should be a non-event and out of the flow circuit. Quite likely it will drain out. On the pressure gauge, if they freeze they will become innacurate. Cheap replacement, probably for $10 or so...not sure as I never had to buy one.
Al

[CarlD]

So...All the work you saved yourself by not closing down has come back as 3x as much work. Unless you live in Florida or Hawaii and never close your pool, turning off your filter and forgetting it will be very expensive come spring--especially if you've had some freezes. Pools and ice are a bad combo if you haven't prepared the pool for it.

Ice breaks stuff when it can't expand.

[lorettasweet]

I kinda figured out the Bulb thingie after I posted. (sight glass). I was thinking that when it's on filter it didn't matter. I guess just the gauge not working had me puzzled about that too. But hey, the somewhat good news.

I mean this pool was SOOOOOO green! Pondscum green. I loaded it with 10 bags of shock today and ran the filter, backwashing every hour or so. It's already starting to clear up some. Earlier I couldn't see the 2nd step going into the pool, now I can faintly make out the 3rd.

I've gotta go read some on the killing algae part of the forum to figure out exactly what I need to do to get it good and clear. Any tips? What do you guys do at the first of the year when it's really rreally bad?

[waterbear]

Basically you are on the right track. Bring your FC up to shock levels (this depends on the CYA levels in your pool) and keep it there until the algae is gone and vacumn to waste to get rid of the dead algae that will settle out. (make sure your pH is in proper range since chlorine is more effective at lower pH).
If you post the numbers for your water people can give more exact advice.

[lorettasweet]

What's FC?

I have a crappy test kit for PH and CL. Just shows the colors and you match them up to the levels on the sides of the beekers or whatever. I tested and both were off the charts. Should I add PH balancer now? Or wait until the shock kills out some of the algea?

[waterbear]

FC means Free Chlorine, that's chlorine that is availabe to act as a sanitizer. The type of test kit you describe sounds like it uses OTO as the reagent and gives you a yellow color to compare. It only will test total chlorine which is a combination of free chlorine and combined chlorine (CC). Get yourself a good drop based test kit that will test:
FC Free Chlorine
TC Total Chlorine
(by subtracting the FC reading from the TC reading you will get your combinded chlorine (CC) which ideally should be 0)
pH
ALK Total Alkalinity
CH Calcium Hardness (only important if your pool is plaster, you have a heater, or have VERY hard or soft fill water)
CYA Cyanuric Acid, also known as stabilizer or conditioner. This acts as a 'sunscreen' for your chlorine and helps protect it from degredation by UV rays in sunlight. It is a two edged sword, however, and too high a level can cause all sorts of problems with algae and will require running your FC at higher levels to compensate.

I would HIGHLY recommend Ben's kit that is sold on the sister website http://www.poolsolutions.com but there are kits from other companies that will work. Walmart even sells a 5 way drop based kit for about $15 dollars but it will only measure total chlorine. You want to look for a kit that uses the DPD chlorine test (color change is pint to red), or even better , the FAS-DPS chlorine test (a titration test that is extremely accurate) instead of one that uses OTO (color change is yellow)
DO NOT USE TEST STRIPS since they will not give you the accuracy you need to successfully balance your water and monitor your chlorine levels.

Once you get your kit post (in the water treatment section of the forum) your:
pool size in gallons
pool finish (plaster, fiberglass, vinyl)
FC
TC
pH
ALK
CH
CYA
and you will find that you will get the help you need to get your pool clear and sparkling in a very short time!

[Watermom]

We really need some numbers to be able to offer advice. I wouldn't blindly start adding a bunch of stuff until you know what your levels are. Think about buying the test kit that Ben sells at the sister site to this one poolsolutions.com. But, in the meantime, try and get a kit that will measure FC, TC (total chlorine), alk, ph and cya if you can. (A drops based kit, not test strips.) Then, post your numbers here and someone can better advise you.

Watermom

[lorettasweet]

We really need some numbers to be able to offer advice. I wouldn't blindly start adding a bunch of stuff until you know what your levels are. Think about buying the test kit that Ben sells at the sister site to this one poolsolutions.com. But, in the meantime, try and get a kit that will measure FC, TC (total chlorine), alk, ph and cya if you can. (A drops based kit, not test strips.) Then, post your numbers here and someone can better advise you.

Watermom


Great, I will try to find one in the morning and test and post. I really want to learn how to properly get it clear and keep it clear. I had a miserable time last summer with it.

[lorettasweet]

FC means Free Chlorine, that's chlorine that is availabe to act as a sanitizer. The type of test kit you describe sounds like it uses OTO as the reagent and gives you a yellow color to compare. It only will test total chlorine which is a combination of free chlorine and combined chlorine (CC). Get yourself a good drop based test kit that will test:
FC Free Chlorine
TC Total Chlorine
(by subtracting the FC reading from the TC reading you will get your combinded chlorine (CC) which ideally should be 0)
pH
ALK Total Alkalinity
CH Calcium Hardness (only important if your pool is plaster, you have a heater, or have VERY hard or soft fill water)
CYA Cyanuric Acid, also known as stabilizer or conditioner. This acts as a 'sunscreen' for your chlorine and helps protect it from degredation by UV rays in sunlight. It is a two edged sword, however, and too high a level can cause all sorts of problems with algae and will require running your FC at higher levels to compensate.

I would HIGHLY recommend Ben's kit that is sold on the sister website http://www.poolsolutions.com but there are kits from other companies that will work. Walmart even sells a 5 way drop based kit for about $15 dollars but it will only measure total chlorine. You want to look for a kit that uses the DPD chlorine test (color change is pint to red), or even better , the FAS-DPS chlorine test (a titration test that is extremely accurate) instead of one that uses OTO (color change is yellow)
DO NOT USE TEST STRIPS since they will not give you the accuracy you need to successfully balance your water and monitor your chlorine levels.

Once you get your kit post (in the water treatment section of the forum) your:
pool size in gallons
pool finish (plaster, fiberglass, vinyl)
FC
TC
pH
ALK
CH
CYA
and you will find that you will get the help you need to get your pool clear and sparkling in a very short time!

You guys are great! I really really appreciate your help. Hopefully I'll post numbers tomorrow.

[lorettasweet]

Well, none of the pool places in town have the type of test kit you guys are talking about. I haven't tried WalMart yet. But I did find one of the pool places that offered for us to bring in some water from the pool and they will analize it and tell us what we need to do. So I'll probably try that in the morning, if they give me the results of the test I'll post them and you guys can see what they tell me. If I can't find the test kit at walmart I'll order the one online tonight.

[Poconos]

Just a word of warning. Do let the poolstore do the tests but ignore any advice they give, especially when they try and sell you a bunch of stuff. Keep your wallet and credit cards hidden.
Al

[CarlD]

Just a word of warning. Do let the poolstore do the tests but ignore any advice they give, especially when they try and sell you a bunch of stuff. Keep your wallet and credit cards hidden.
Al

You betcha. You don't wanna get "Pool Stored!" Get the results, tell 'em you'll be back when you've analyzed them with some friends (that's us!;) ). I'd be friendly, but firm--you may WELL need to go back to them for things like CYA (stabilizer), fittings, PolyQuat, test reagent chemicals.

If for some reason you want tri-chlor pucks or Cal-Hypo (and there are good reasons to use these products from time to time--just not all the time), you'll be back at the pool store.

[lorettasweet]

OK my new friends. I finally got to the pool store with my sample, here's the results that they printed for me. You guys let me know what I should do now.

Free Chlorine: .2PPM
Total Chlorine: .2PPM
Combined Chlorine: .0PPM
PH: 7.7
Hardness: 70 ppm
Alkalinity: 19 ppm
Cyanuric Acid: 5 ppm

We have a 27 foot round above ground pool. 52 or 54" deep I can't remember for sure.

These results were taken about a week after we poured 10 bags of shock in the pool and the filters been running since. The shock turned the soupy green water into cloudy bluish water and that's is where it is now. Haven't added any chemicals other than the shock.

Soooo, now what?

[waterbear]

OK my new friends. I finally got to the pool store with my sample, here's the results that they printed for me. You guys let me know what I should do now.

Free Chlorine: .2PPM
Total Chlorine: .2PPM
Combined Chlorine: .0PPM
PH: 7.7
Hardness: 70 ppm
Alkalinity: 19 ppm
Cyanuric Acid: 5 ppm

We have a 27 foot round above ground pool. 52 or 54" deep I can't remember for sure.

These results were taken about a week after we poured 10 bags of shock in the pool and the filters been running since. The shock turned the soupy green water into cloudy bluish water and that's is where it is now. Haven't added any chemicals other than the shock.

Soooo, now what? First step is to get a good test kit. If none of the pool stores carry one then order Ben's or go online and get a Taylor K-2006 (Ben's is a better deal for the money!) OR see if walmart has the $15 5 way drop kit (will get you started until the kit you ordered from Ben;) arrives but it will not test Free chlorine....only Total!) Cloudy blusih water sounds like water with mostly dead algae. IMHO, I would put bleach in the pool and get it back to shock level (with 5ppm CYA that would be 10PPM free chlorine), keep it there, , filter 24/7, and vacumn to waste until the water is clear (but I have been know to be a bit obsessive :eek:), then let the free chlorine drop to 3 ppm and keep it there, get your CYA up to about 30 ppm, and then bring your ALK up to 80-120 ppm with baking soda. Keep your chlorine at 3 ppm throughout. When the Alk has stabilized at 80-120 get your pH to somewhere between 7.2-7.8 (lower end probably a bit better) by adding SMALL amounts of either acid (dry or muriatic) to lower it or Borax to raise it and waiting 24 hours (wait at least 4 or 5!:rolleyes:) retesting and making small adjustments until the pH is in range. General consensus is that you don't have to worry about calcium with a vinyl pool! You are then good to go! (swimming that is)

[lorettasweet]

Can you post a link to Bens test kit you're talking about. I found the ones on this page: http://www.poolsolutions.com/cart/kits.php

But it appears they are discontinued. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

[duraleigh]

Hi, Loretta,


Soooo, now what?

I am only going to repeat what's already been said. Not to Nag, Loretta, but to emphasize what all the folks above have been saying.

You need a good test kit.

Any advice anyone gives you on the forum will be simply a guess until you can post your current numbers so we can all help you get your water under control. I know it's tough to cough up a significant amount of money that doesn't "do" anything to your pool but you will be paid back a hundred times over.

You must be able to test for pH, FC, CC, CYA and Alk. If you're not sure what those are, ask and we'll explain. Don't waste your time (and money) running back and forth to the pool store for the tests.....it's too costly, too time consuming, and frequently, too inaccurate.

It's obvious you're willing and eager to learn....that test kit really has to be your first step.

Once you get your kit, figure your pool for about 17,000 gallons.

I would not waste money and time putting an arbitrary amount of "Shock" into your pool. Post your numbers and we'll all help you with meaningful dosages (and meaningful results):) :)

Dave S.

[waterbear]

Can you post a link to Bens test kit you're talking about. I found the ones on this page: http://www.poolsolutions.com/cart/kits.php

But it appears they are discontinued. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Try here!
http://www.poolsolutions.com/cart/ps234.php

[lorettasweet]

OK, I'll get a good testkit. But is there somewhere on this forum that lists what exactly I need to raise PH so much, and how much of it. As well as the others. I kneed to know exactly how to get my pool to the levels they need to be at.

[Sherra]

To raise both PH and Alkalinity at the same time, use Arm & Hammer Baking Soda. You can get it in 4 pound boxes at the grocery store and 12 pound bags at Sam's Club, Costco, etc. There is a dosage chart on the box. As for what your levels should be...I have a chart at home that I made up using various information from this board & Pool Solutions (PoolDoc runs both sites). But, I'm not home right now...I'm at work. ;)

[duraleigh]

Loretta,

Please don't get mad at this answer....even tho I don't think it's what you want to hear.

If you download Mwsmith2's calculator from any of his posts it'll tell you how much to add of the different stuff...depending on where they are now.

That said, how will you know where they are now without a test kit? Those pools store numbers are too old to be useful. I'll say it again, every post in your thread will simply be an arbitrary guess until you find a way to post your current numbers.

Next, how will you know when you get to where you need to be? You need the test kit and then we will all work hard with you to get your water sparkling!!:) :)

Dave S.

[aylad]

OK, I'll get a good testkit. But is there somewhere on this forum that lists what exactly I need to raise PH so much, and how much of it. As well as the others. I kneed to know exactly how to get my pool to the levels they need to be at.
You don't need to raise your pH, in fact, your chlorine will be more effective if you lower it. Use baking soda to raise TA with only a negligible rise in pH. However, I'm going to echo what you've already been told.......you're wasting time and money without a good test kit.

Janet

[lorettasweet]

Loretta,

Please don't get mad at this answer....even tho I don't think it's what you want to hear.

If you download Mwsmith2's calculator from any of his posts it'll tell you how much to add of the different stuff...depending on where they are now.

That said, how will you know where they are now without a test kit? Those pools store numbers are too old to be useful. I'll say it again, every post in your thread will simply be an arbitrary guess until you find a way to post your current numbers.

Next, how will you know when you get to where you need to be? You need the test kit and then we will all work hard with you to get your water sparkling!!:) :)

Dave S.
Why would I get mad? Those test numbers were from the day I posted them so they may not have been up to the minute, but as quick as I could post them. I downloaded Michaels calc and it just tells me how much bleach to put in.

What I need to know is where can I find out how to raise or lower my other levels other than chlorine to get them where they should be? Or does the bleach just balance everything else out?

[Sherra]

There are more options in the bleach calc if you go up to the menu bar...:)
You can calculate how much to add for Alkalinity, Calcium Hardness, pH, Cyanuric Acid (CYA/Stabilizer/Conditioner), Salt, etc. Under Settings you can set it to save your pool capacity, what bleach/liquid chlorine strength you generally use and whether you prefer US (Imperial) or Metric units of measure.

[CarlD]

OK my new friends. I finally got to the pool store with my sample, here's the results that they printed for me. You guys let me know what I should do now.

Free Chlorine: .2PPM
Total Chlorine: .2PPM
Combined Chlorine: .0PPM
PH: 7.7
Hardness: 70 ppm
Alkalinity: 19 ppm
Cyanuric Acid: 5 ppm

We have a 27 foot round above ground pool. 52 or 54" deep I can't remember for sure.
...
Soooo, now what?
Loretta:
Youve gotten ALL kinds of advice, but I have to take issue with a lot of it. I NEVER advocate dumping tons of baking soda in at once. Your pool is 17,000 gallons so I would NEVER add more than a one pound box of baking soda at any time--EVER! It's always easy to add another pound of baking soda to raise total alkalinity but it's a royal pain in the patoot to lower it. You want it to be 80- 125 normally but with a vinyl pool I prefer 100-180ppm.

Your Chlorine is low--if your water is clear than one gallon of regular bleach should raise it to 3ppm. But if you have algae, you'll need to add 3 1/2 gallons to raise it to 10ppm. That is based on a CYA of 5ppm.

Your pH is FINE at 7.7--maybe a tad higher than I like but I wouldn't mess with it. Period.

Your CYA is low. You'll need to add some (stabilizer). Figure out from the directions how much you think you'll need to get the pool to 30-40ppm of CYA and add ONE QUARTER of that amount and wait a week. Test CYA again and if it's low, add that same 1/4 amount again and wait another week. CYA, like Total Alkalinity, is easy to raise but an ever bigger pain to lower--you must drain off water. So it's always better to try to NEVER go over your target.

Ignore hardness unless it approachs 500ppm. You CAN use Cal-Hypo for chlorine.

But the advice about test kits? Absolutely! There's another alternative that's also very good. If there's a Leslie's, near you, they may have the FAS-DPD test kit under their own label (made by Taylor). It's about $20. They also have a nice drop test kit, also made by Taylor, for $40 or $45--You use the FAS-DPD kit for chlorine rather than the one in the other kit.

But Ben's kit is the nicest of them and easiest to use.

With your current numbers you can safely use Tri-Chlor pucks or Di-chlor powder--but if you do so, don't add extra CYA--they will do it for you. Just make sure the pucks don't have copper in them.

[jawman]

Your Chlorine is low--if your water is clear than one gallon of regular bleach should raise it to 3ppm. But if you have algae, you'll need to add 3 1/2 gallons to raise it to 10ppm. That is based on a CYA of 5ppm.

Carl,

Can you please explain the math? I'm struggling to understand this stuff too. Also trying to figure out how the CYA of 5ppm figures into the equation. For example, if the CYA were 10ppm, would you advise Lorretta to put in the same amount of Chlorine?

Thanks,

jawman

[huenix]

Carl,

Can you please explain the math? I'm struggling to understand this stuff too. Also trying to figure out how the CYA of 5ppm figures into the equation. For example, if the CYA were 10ppm, would you advise Lorretta to put in the same amount of Chlorine?

Thanks,

jawman


He is taking those numbers off the "Best Guess" chart. http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

CYA is stabilizer. It makes CL stable in water. So the more Cyanuric Acid (CYA) there is in the water, the more free CL you need to kill bacteria. As you can see from the chart linked above, the more CYA, the more free CL you would have.

As a side note, most people recommend a CYA level of 30, but I ran mine last year at 60+ with no issues and no algae. That was not intentional (I mis-measured...) but it worked out just swell. All I had to do was keep my FC at 9-10. My water was so clear it hurt to look at it.