How to test for sodium tetraborate?

[Calicowinks]

Hello!

We have terrible calcium issues in our part of the world with drought conditions using lake water. To add to that, we have a new pool and the plaster is contributing to the calcium. We have decided to add sodium tetraborate to the water. Our pool is 15,000 and we will be adding 45 pounds of Mule Team, along with muriatic acid to deal with the pH increase.

I would like to know if there is a test for sodium tetraborate so that we can know if we have the right amount? Since the calcium remains in the pool (just bound up) testing for calcium won't tell us anything..........I think!

Your thoughts would be most appreciated!

Shari

[aylad]

I don't know about the test for sodium tetraborate, I'll leave that to someone who knows about it, but your statement that "we will be ading 45 pounds of Mule Team, along with muratic acid" really scares me.....you don't need to add 45 pounds of ANYTHING to a 15K gallon pool! 20 Mule Team Borax raises pH, and muriatic acid lowers it. You don't need to add both--if you do, you're wasting money and chems. All you need to do for pH is raise it with Borax or lower it with muriatic acid to keep it between 7.2-7.8--but you need to add slowly, so as not to overshoot your target number.

Janet

[Poconos]

Right from the 20 Mule Team box...contains sodium tetraborate decahydrate. I would think a simple calcium hardness measurement would tell a lot. I may be missing something though.
Al

[Calicowinks]

I don't know about the test for sodium tetraborate, I'll leave that to someone who knows about it, but your statement that "we will be ading 45 pounds of Mule Team, along with muratic acid" really scares me.....you don't need to add 45 pounds of ANYTHING to a 15K gallon pool! 20 Mule Team Borax raises pH, and muriatic acid lowers it. You don't need to add both--if you do, you're wasting money and chems. All you need to do for pH is raise it with Borax or lower it with muriatic acid to keep it between 7.2-7.8--but you need to add slowly, so as not to overshoot your target number.

Janet

Hi Janet and all,

I am adding the sodium tetraborate to lower the calcium in the water which is over 500. We have a special colored quartz plaster that does best with calcium around 250. The calcium is coming from our water source which is lake water. We are under drought conditions and the calcium is high straight from the tap. Also, the pool is new (only two weeks old!) and the fresh plaster also adds to the calcium.

The sodium tetraborate also increases pH, which is why muriatic acid will be added to compensate for the elevation caused by the borax.

The borax does not remove the calcium in the pool, it only "neutralizes" it so that scaling and deposits won't occur. If I use a calcium hardness test, it will still show me that the calcium is high, though not harmful..............therefore the test will tell me nothing.

I am looking for a test that will tell me how much sodium tetraborate is in the water in order to determine if I have enough to fight the calcium. The product "Endure" is sodium tetraborate and the label tells me I should add 60 pounds for my 15K pool. I wanted to start with 45 pounds and then test.

If my chemistry thinking is off, please let me know! I'm very new to all this and want to make sure I my thoughts are correct.

Take care,

Shari

[waterbear]

Tetraborate will not lower the calcium level nor will they prevent scaling to the best of my knowledge. In a dose of 30-50 ppm and with the addition of acid to bring the pH back in line it will act as an algaestat and help buffer the pH. This is what products like Proteam Supreme and Bioguard Optimizer are. There are test kits and test strips that will test borate levels available from LaMotte and Aquacheck. Bioguard and Proteam dealers also can usually test for borates.
Adding 45 punds to a 15000 gal pool will put you in the ballpark of 30-50 ppm and will require the addition of 3-4 gallons of acid to keep the pH in line. It will add about 10 ppm to your total alkalinity. If you decide to add it to your pool the best way is to add 3/4 gallon (3 quarts) of acid and then immediately add 10-15 pounds of tetraborate until the entire amount of tetraborate is added. Wait 24 hours and adjust pH to about 7.4 with either acid if too high or more tetraborate if too low.

There are only 2 ways to lower the calcium...either drain and refill with softened water or use a sequesterant that has a high chelation ratio for calcium. These types of seqesterants are called 'Calcium Hardness Reducers' and will require maintenance doses on a regular basis just like sequesterants for other metals do. (Calcium IS a metal!)

[Calicowinks]

There are only 2 ways to lower the calcium...either drain and refill with softened water or use a sequesterant that has a high chelation ratio for calcium. These types of seqesterants are called 'Calcium Hardness Reducers' and will require maintenance doses on a regular basis just like sequesterants for other metals do. (Calcium IS a metal!)[/QUOTE]

What is your recommendation for a calcium sequestrant for pools with high calcium?

Thanks so much for your thoughts! I appreciate the time you took to give me details!

Take care,

Shari

[waterbear]

There are only 2 ways to lower the calcium...either drain and refill with softened water or use a sequesterant that has a high chelation ratio for calcium. These types of seqesterants are called 'Calcium Hardness Reducers' and will require maintenance doses on a regular basis just like sequesterants for other metals do. (Calcium IS a metal!)
What is your recommendation for a calcium sequestrant for pools with high calcium?

Thanks so much for your thoughts! I appreciate the time you took to give me details!

Take care,

Shari[/quote]
Most well stocked pool stores will carry them. They might be called calcium hardness reducers or scale inhibitors. They are phosphonic acid derivatives and are very similar to metal seqeaterants. You can also google calcium hardness reducer to find products online.