Newbie needs advice....so confused

[AndieP]

Here's my story....23,000 gallon white guinite pool. Started using Pristine Blue this season at my pool dealers suggestion b/c I battled water problems all season last year with using chlorine.

Well, I've continued to battle water problems this season too. And after doing research on PB I'm thinking I should switch to back to chlorine and after days of reading on this forum I'm very interested in BBB.

A few days ago our water was cloudy and starting to turn a little green. Also had a weird brownish film starting to cover the pool wall and floors. Took a sample in and she tested and said Phosphates were high and gave me PhosFree and a Bioguard Oxider Shock. No Iron showed up and Copper was 0.2. I poured the phosphate stuff in the first night. The next morning some of the "film" was starting to disappear and there was alot of sediment on the pool floor. The water was really turning green. Added shock last night and this morning most, not all but most, of the brownish film is gone and lots more sediment on the pool floor and the water is clear.

I take a sample back today with these readings
PH 7.4
Alkalinity 80
Copper level 0.2
No chlorine showing on my test kit as of a few minutes ago
No CYA either

I still have almost a full bottle of $41 PB left and the dealer wants me to try 2 more weeks now that the phosphates are taken care of. I hate to waste the PB and the $$ but I am also leery of putting more back in the water. I questioned her about PB ability to kill bacteria and she said it does kill but that is also what the weekly shock is for.

So......should I just ditch the PB and start with bleach? If I do this do I just need to use the bleach calculator and start adding bleach? If I add PB should I add some chlorine too?

Sorry so long but I would appreciate any suggestions or help anyone might have. Thanks so much!

[CarlD]

Boy, I'm not sure I'd know how to convert from P/B It apparently uses copper ions...but your copper levels are low.

[AndieP]

Boy, I'm not sure I'd know how to convert from P/B It apparently uses copper ions...but your copper levels are low.
:( At a copper level of 0.2 will that do anything toward sanitizing? I am worried if I don't get either more Pristine Blue in or start with the bleach that I will not have proper sanitization.

Can I add bleach with 0 CYA? I don't have any and our Walmart doesn't have it either. I can't get to a pool store until tomorrow or Wednsday. I do have access to the chlorine pucks...if i put the pucks in the skimmer will that raise the CYA? How many?

[mbar]

I would put in a metal sequester, then use bleach to shock your pool. Get rid of the pb - make sure you put in enough of the sequestering agent according to the size of your pool - that will bind with the copper that is in the water, so that it doesn't fall out when you shock. You will need to get some cya in the water, you can add it in the skimmer but you can't backwash the pool for a week, or you can put it in a sock and let it dissolve. With a cya of 0 you can take your chlorine up to 10 for a shock. Keep it there until the chlorine holds overnight, and be consistant - everytime it goes lower than 10, add enough to bring it back to 10. Test as often as you can and leave your pump running 24/7. They didn't test your calcium? You will need between 200 - 400 in a gunite pool, your ph and alkalinity are fine.

[AndieP]

I don't have a metal sequester and won't be able to get one until tomorrow or possibly Wed. So what should I do in the interim? Go ahead and put bleach in to achieve 10ppm? How long do I leave it at 10ppm? The water is currently clear but i can still see some of the brownish film along the bottom 1/2 of the deep end walls and on the floor of the pool. (I shocked last night using a bioguard shock) The film has been slowly going away since i put in the PhosFree.

So to get some CYA in the water should I use the pucks until I can get to a supplier to buy it?

Sorry for all the questions but thanks so much for your input!

She has tested calcium several times before and has said it was fine....can't remember the exact number. I just found my Taylor kit so I'll test it myself in a bit.

[Watermom]

I am definitely not the metal expert on the forum, but I do know that you don't want to shock if you have metal in your water as it can fall out and stain your pool. (Reread Marie's post above - #4.)

[AndieP]

My supplier has been having me shock with chlorine shock all along :(

So it sounds as if until I get a metal out that I should just add a small amount of bleach to at least have something in the water to sanitize or maybe just do nothing and hope the 0.2 copper is enough to keep the algae at bay. Am I even remotely on the right track?

[mbar]

I think you would be fine to get your chlorine up t without any problems, I would do this right away. If you keep your ph low, no higher than it is now,( 7.2 would be better) use bleach and take the chlorine up slowly. One gal of 6% should take you up about 2ppms at a time. I don't think with copper at .2 would cause staining now, especially if you are fighting algae. It is more important to get rid of the algae now, even if you get a few stains they can be taken care of. You can swim in your pool with stains, you can't swim with algae! Since you have no cya I would put a puck in the skimmer - this will also help to have the water hit the chlorine puck on it's way to the filter so that if metal does fall out of the water it will land on the filter first. Don't put a puck in the skimmer if you have a cartridge filter. Let me know if you have any questions.

[AndieP]

Thank you Marie for your input. Just to make sure I am clear on your instructions...

So with 0.2 copper level you think it is OK to go ahead with the conversion process w/o a metal sequester? When you say I would be OK to go ahead and raise chlorine level are you saying all the way to 10ppm since at this point I don't have any CYA? And you mentioned to raise it slowly...so how long should I wait between adding each gallon to raise it in 2ppm increments? I don't think we have algae right now but last night the water was clear and I could see the bottom. This morning it is still a clear color but cloudy...I can't see the bottom in the deep end.

I will add a puck to the skimmer (sand filter) to increase CYA. Should I just use the pucks to increase the CYA or try to go buy a product to increase it?

Lastly, once I get to 10ppm I should keep it there until it holds from pm to am? At that point I would be through the conversion process and could let it drop to whatever ppm indicated by the CYA level?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just tired of relying on the pool supplier for what has been questionable advice to this point and really want to be able to understand and do this on my own.

Thanks again!
Andrea

[mbar]

If possible, get a metal sequesterer - you can find them anywhere that sells pool chemicals - some will say "stain and scale preventor", others will say metal out, or metal free. If not, I would still raise my chlorine up to 10, it will clear up your water and not let any algae take over. Usually cloudy water means something is starting. If you can find stabalizer (cya) go ahead and put it in your pool, use a third of what they say, and don't test for it for a week - it takes that much time for it to show up sometime. Keeping the puck in the skimmer will give you some protected chlorine during sunlight, but you must test often as the sun will eat up the chlorine really fast without cya in the water, leaving you open for the algae. Consistancy is the most important thing. I would add a gal of bleach every hour or so till you reach 10 (which will take you all day). Then make sure after sundown you check and add bleach till you hit 10, and again before you go to sleep. The chlorine will continue to go down if it is fighting something even after the sun goes down. That is the way you can know that the algae is gone - the chlorine will hold overnight (no sun to eat the chlorine). After you hold your chlorine overinght, then you can let the chlorine drop to the level according to the cya.

1. Put puck in skimmer
2. Add bleach (not in skimmer) at return jets 1 jug per hour till you reach 10ppm
3.backwash filter
4. Add cya
5. test often, taking chlorine up to 10ppm
6. Keep filter running 24/7
7. Have patience! Your water will clear!

[AndieP]

Thanks again Marie for mapping it out for me step by step.

I went to get bleach and pucks to start putting some stabilizer in the water but all Walmart had was HTH pucks that had copper added in them as an algaecide. Do I want that? I am trying to get away from putting copper in the water not add more. Are there pucks that don't have copper in them? I am thinking I might be better off to just order some stabilizer online.

I also decided I would check my calcium level since you asked about it earlier.....I tested it twice and both times came up with 100! The pool dealer kept telling me my calcium level was fine :mad: ....isn't 100 too low for a concete/plaster pool (which appears to have been painted too before we moved here)?

I haven't added anything yet b/c I just today had a chance to go get bleach and we are also dealing with trying to find a leak :(

Do I need to increase the calcium before adding bleach/stabilizer?

[Poconos]

If you go the puck route just be aware that I've seen containers at Sam's Club that were $10 apart in price for 40#, one said 'multi-use' or something like that and the other didn't. Cheaper didn't. Ingredients lists were the same...no mention of copper but I suspect the multi-use had it.
Al

[AndieP]

The ones I saw today also said "multi-use" or something like that and had copper listed in the ingredients. I didn't get them. I was just going to use them to put some stabilizer in the water since I can't find any cyanuric acid here. (Small town pool place hour away) Would it be better to just order stabilizer online instead of messing with the pucks?

[mbar]

Yes, order the stabalizer online - you can often find free shipping. I do a lot of my shopping online since I live in a small town too. You will also have to get some calcium in the water too. Walmart sometimes has calcium, or if you have a lowes, they carry it. If not order that online too - you need between 200 and 400 for a gunite pool. Use enough to get you to 200, sometimes what it calls for will take you over 200! So I always go for less. You should add the bleach now, you don't have to wait.

[AndieP]

OK, I have officially started the conversion :)

I am getting stabilizer, metal out, and calcium increaser. Yesterday I slowed added bleach to get to a level of 10.5 when I went to bed. This morning my numbers were as follows:

FC 7.0
CC 0
PH 7.2
TA 50
CYA 0

When I tried to test my calcium level it turned yellow instead of red. Do you know why it did this? My TA is dropping a bit...do I need to increase it?

I added 2 more jugs of bleach to bring it back up to 10....I just keep it at 10 all day today and tonight, right?

The water is clear...I can see the bottom easily but the deep end is just a bit hazy.

Thanks again for your continued help.

[AndieP]

I am still going at this...water was clear yesterday, brought bleach up to 11 last night and this morning the water is cloudy. I added stabilizer Thursday night so I haven't checked the CYA level yet.

My question now is do I continue to add the bleach at the return jet or should I walk around the pool with it or add it in the skimmer?

Also where do you add baking soda and Borax? At the skimmer?

Thanks!

[Dr. Spike]

I add my bleach slowly to the skimmer. Same for the borax and baking soda (I almost never have to use any though). I add the muriatic acid slowly by the return jet. I never add any chemical at the same time. If I have to use more than one chemical in a day I will wait about 4 hours (about 1 full cycle for my pool) with the pump running before I do.

I do not use any pucks. If you are, and have them or have had them in the skimmer, DO NOT add the bleach to the skimmer. Continue adding by the return jet.