SWG and Bleach

[mkamp1515]

I am sure this is on the forum somewhere...just have not been able to find it.

My pool is inground, SWG, and blue pebble tec. I was thinking about, if it is advantageous, supplementing some bleach for chlorine and decreasing the SWG chlorinating % to maybe increase the life of the salt cell and reduce the number of hours the pump is running. Would the bleach harm the color of my pebble tec surface? Is this a bad idea?

I am running my pump more hours this year due to a high phosphate problem. Something is getting in my pool and causing high phosphates (3rd time since March I have had this problem). So, I have been running my pump longer to keep the chlorine higher and to treat the phosphate issues (PhosFree). It has been expensive all the way around. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I know how to treat the phosphates...just not sure what is getting in my pool to cause the problem. Luckily, the water is very clear and I have had no algae.

Thanks,
Mike

[Karin]

Hi Mike, I too am battling high phosphates. Apparently our little city had some water issues and dumped phosphates into the city's water supply. Meanwhile I've been merrily adding this phosphate enriched brew to my pool....like I'm planning an algae farm. Yeeesh....

I have used regular household bleach as a "shock" treatment now and then instead of using my "super chlorinate" feature on my SWCG. I too heard that it saves the life of the cell.

I have a Cool Blue Diamond Bright finish and sometimes I think that the bleach may have caused some whitish streaks on the finish near the bottom of the pool...that or maybe the salt additions did even though I try to stir it up and brush it toward the main drain.

I am planning on helping out our nations GNP and buying some sequestrants and algaecides as preventative measures this summer. (I think we have iron in our water supply and I know algae lurks everywhere in Florida...)

If anyone has low cost sources for these items or good generics, please pass them on. I know chlorine will kill any problems, but I tend to get too worked up and wake up in a cold sweat at night if I suspect I have algae multiplying on the other side of my sliding glass doors...;)

[waterbear]

First queston to both of you....do you have algae in your pool? If you don't then don't worry about the phosphate levels in your water. I have about 1000ppb phosphate and have yet to see an algae bloom in my water ( and yes, Karin, I live in Florida....one block from the atlantic ocean! Most of north and central Florida has high phospahtes in the water...they mine the stuff in this state!) nor have I ever needed to shock since my SWG went online last novebmer (based on never have tested CC over .5 ppm).
If you have an algae problem AND phosphates have been determined to be the limiting factor in algae growth then a phosphate remover would be the way to go...otherwise you are just wasting money!
The BEST algecide is chlorine....end of discussion. Polyquat can be useful at times but chlorine is your first line of attack against algae.
If yo do need to shock then using bleach instead of using the superchlorinate setting will:
1. be more effective since you are putting the chlorine in all at once
2. prolong the life of your cell.

I see no advantage to shortening your pump run time and using bleach....sort of defeats the purpose of having a SWG.

Your water might test high in phosphates...if you don't have algae, so what? If it ain't broken don't try and fix it! One other note...most metal sequesterants will raise your phosphate levels since they are based on derivatives of phosphonic acid! Nitrates are just as important as phosphates as a source of algae food (perhaps even more so) but no one really mentions them...the reason is there is no stuff in a bottle you can buy to lower the nitrate levels in your pool! Pool stores make money by selling you stuff that you don't reallly need! I know....I work in one!

[mkamp1515]

Thanks for the comments. The answer to one of your questions is no, I do not have algae. I run my pump about 10-12 hours a day at 85% chlorination (summer only of course). The temps here are averaging mid-90s to 100 most days in the summer. In fact...knock on wood...I have never had algae (pool built 15 months ago). The water is very clear and looks great except for the milkiness the PhosFree causes for a few days after treating the water. I tested the water this morning and it is around 1000 on the phosphate test. Was 2500 10 days or so ago. I am sick of messing with it and after this round of tests I think I will follow your advice and not worry about it. It is kind of funny that no one really mentions phosphates anywere in the stores unless you ask.

Thanks again and have a great holiday.

Mike

[mkamp1515]

OK...Waterbear...a second view of your posting has sparked a new question. Is Jack's the Purple Stuff something that can add phosphates to a pool? That is the only stuff I am putting in my pool this year that is different than last year and it is a metal sequesterant. I believe it has phosphonic acid in it. Would that be enough to cause problems? I use it as a scale preventative every week per the instructions. Please let me know if you have any knowledge regarding this product.

Thanks,
Mike

[mkamp1515]

Karin, you mentioned you might use a metal sequesterant. I have used Jack's Purple Stuff which is good stuff except I have verified now that is has phosphonic acid which is probably why I continuously have high phosphates (been using the stuff weekly since March). I will cease using it today. Natural Chemistry has some stuff called "Metal Free", I think, and it is phosphate free per the bottle label. Good luck and listen to Waterbear.:)

Mike

[waterbear]

The purple stuff is fine to use....so is metal free....Metal free is EDTA, a chelating agent. I have used both (along with some other ones)..they all work. My point was that phosphates are not a problem in a pool UNLESS you have recurrant algae that won't go away easily and phosphates are the 'limiting factor' in the algae problem (that means no nitrates and sanitizer levels are in correct amounts for the stabilizer level). In THAT case using a phosphate remover to reduce the phosphates in the water might help solve the algae problem...If there is no problem why try and fix one!

[Karin]

Well last month there was just so much "dust" in the pool from all the dry weather. I live a block off the Atlantic ocean too and when the wind blows, there is dirt and sand....or so I thought. Every day I would brush the brownish dirt and urge my lethargic Kreepy pool boy to suck it all up. The next day it was back...I'm sure you all figured out what I didn't know. I had the infamous yellow algae and wasn't doing anything about it except brushing it around and wishing for some rain..sigh.

Well, I belatedly sprang into action, shocked the heck of the pool and cleaned and cleaned my cartridge filter. Now I'm very wary, hence my "preventative" measures with the algaecide and phosphate remover. I hardly got any sleep that week. LOL

I too had used Jack's Purple stuff and got into a discussion about it with one of the company's tech support. He admitted that there were phosphates, but not the real bad kind. As long as I didn't mix in any nitrates, I shouldn't have a bumper crop of algae. Huh? Why put them in your product in the first place?

I've seen some metal sequestrants which are labeled phosphate free. I will relax on the phosphate remover and only add some sequestrant when I have to add water. (I got some yellow staining last time we did a partial pool refill. Whether it was from the algae, the new water or new salt, I don't know. Most of it seemed to go away after I added the sequestrant and phosphate remover.

Yes, I'm a pool shop's dream customer---GULLIBLE. But I'm learning.....pretty soon someone else will have to walk in my flip-flops. :o

[waterbear]

I too had used Jack's Purple stuff and got into a discussion about it with one of the company's tech support. He admitted that there were phosphates, but not the real bad kind. As long as I didn't mix in any nitrates, I shouldn't have a bumper crop of algae. Huh? Why put them in your product in the first place?
Because phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective sequaterants will the least side effect and have a proven track record in the water treatement industry. They are even used in drinking water! The danger of algae blooms is very slight since phosphates are rarely the 'limiting factor' in algae growth in pools! I would continue the seqesterants and not the phosphate remover treatments! Mustard algae usually starts when you get careless with maintaining your chlorine levels or your stabilizer levels get too high!
Nitrates are more of a problem since they are a favorite algae food and nitrogen compouds are constantly being added to pools from body secretions like perspiration!. They are what cause chloramines to form! Even chloramines are algae food! (but some, like monochoramine will kill algae when they eat it...this is how some mustard algae treatments actually work!)

I've seen some metal sequestrants which are labeled phosphate free.
The only one that I know of is NaturalChemistry's Metal Free. It is EDTA, a chelating agent.
I will relax on the phosphate remover and only add some sequestrant when I have to add water. (I got some yellow staining last time we did a partial pool refill. Whether it was from the algae, the new water or new salt, I don't know. Most of it seemed to go away after I added the sequestrant and phosphate remover.

Yes, I'm a pool shop's dream customer---GULLIBLE. But I'm learning.....pretty soon someone else will have to walk in my flip-flops. :o
Hope this info is helpful!