Copper in water

[Bergerman]

Well, I had some kids last year with a slight greenish :eek: tint to their hair. Can you or can't you get rid of copper that may have been put in the pool water(pool service opened and closed the pool)? If you can't get rid of the copper,is there a product that would prevent the return of the green haired kids? I am opening the pool this year and am getting a list(bleach,baking soda and borax) together. I did have a black stain on the skimmer boxes?

Thanks for any info
Ed:rolleyes:

[DavidD]

Ed,
The only sure way is to do a water change. You probably would have to do only a partial which would remove some of the copper. Have you tested your water for copper? It would be a good idea to find out how much is there. I bought Ben's Copper test kit (PS-251) year before last for about $25. Used it twice, once on my pool to see if staining was coming from copper (tested 0 ppb) and once to help a friend out with an AG pool. It tested high so we drained half the water. No more staining/green hair! You may want to try the "metal removers" (unless you have a cartridge filter) but remember to follow the directions and backwash/change DE imediately after. I'm not even sure they will work on copper but $15 is probably cheaper than half your water....

[waterbear]

If the green hair problems return I can tell you how to remove the green safely and quickly. Besides my having worked in the field of computers and electroncis and currently in education I have also been a licensed Barber and Cosmetologist for 29 years! This is how we did it in the Salon and also how I used to teach it when I was teaching those two professions. (Just think, a REAL insider beauty tip in this forum!)

1. Go to a camera store that sells darkroom chemicals and get some PLAN HYPO (sodium thiosulfate)---same stuff used as a chlorine killer in pools. Don't get the premixed acid fixer stuff--you want plain Hypo.

2. Go to the drugstore and get citric acid crystals. You can sometimes also find this at the grocery store in the spice section as "sour salt" that is sometimes used in Jewish old world" cooking but it will be big crystals that will take a little while to dissolve.

3. Dissolve 2 tablespoon of the Hypo and 2 teaspoons of the citric acid in 8 oz. of very hot water and let it cool to luke warm.

4. wet the hair and towel dry it so it is just damp (very important!)

5. pour the solution through the hair and let it sit until the green is gone. You should see the green color start to fade almost immediately.

6. When the green is gone or there is no more color change happening rinse the hair thoroughly with running water for a full five minutes. This will help to rinse out any copper that has been lifted out of the hair.

7. shampoo and rinse at least 2 times...3 is better.

8. condition the hair .

If some green color remains wait 24 hours and repeat the process.

To help prevent reoccurance DEAL WITH THE METAL PROBLEM IN YOUR POOL, then coat the hair with a thick protein based conditoner, and stick it under a swim cap before swimming until you are sure you have DEALT WITH THE METAL PROBLEM IN YOUR POOL!

The chemistry behind this is none too different from the chemisty in removing metal stains from pools with ascorbic acid, which involves dropping the chlorine levels (the hypo kills any chlorine that might be left in the hair) and treating with an acid substance (in pools it's usually ascorbic acid).

Back in the 70's I used to charge $30 and up for this green removing treatment and even then we tried to educate people that their hair wasn't turning green from the chlorine in their pools but from the copper based algecides. I worked as a colorist in a very exlusive day spa in Miami that had a hot tub and after the pool "professional" that took care of it dosed it with algecide we had a number of our blond clients that used the hot tub come out with green hair! :eek: Because I knew how to handle it right away (and did it for free in these cases) I am sure I saved my employer at the time from the possiblility of lawsuits.

To my knowlege the "swimmers hair" shampoos and products on the market are ineffective against this problem except for two products from Nexxus that when both used will work. They are Aloe Rid shampoo and Aloe Rid treatment. Together they contain in their ingredients..guess what...Sodium Thiosulfate and Citric Acid! The two must be used to remove the green. Just using one or the other is not effective. There might be others on the market but I have not come across them.

Hope you never need to use this info!:D

[Bergerman]

Thank you for the info. After I get the pool up and running I will test for CU:cool: . I can't wait to get that cover off the pool.

Ed

[gerri]

Great info Waterbear. I was a salon owner for years and I never knew this was how to remove the green. I'm not in the business anymore but I do have some hairdresser friends that might find this helpful.

My question though is does chlorine in the water damage the hair.. raise the cuticle, dry it out, etc. ? I know when I used to cut hair and people were on the swim team their hair would feel "coated" with something. I always thought it was the chlorine.. but now I'm pretty sure I was wrong. :rolleyes: I always told them to make sure they washed and conditioned the hair immediately after swimming.


If the green hair problems return I can tell you how to remove the green safely and quickly. Besides my having worked in the field of computers and electroncis and currently in education I have also been a licensed Barber and Cosmetologist for 29 years! This is how we did it in the Salon and also how I used to teach it when I was teaching those two professions. (Just think, a REAL insider beauty tip in this forum!)

1. Go to a camera store that sells darkroom chemicals and get some PLAN HYPO (sodium thiosulfate)---same stuff used as a chlorine killer in pools. Don't get the premixed acid fixer stuff--you want plain Hypo.

2. Go to the drugstore and get citric acid crystals. You can sometimes also find this at the grocery store in the spice section as "sour salt" that is sometimes used in Jewish old world" cooking but it will be big crystals that will take a little while to dissolve.

3. Dissolve 2 tablespoon of the Hypo and 2 teaspoons of the citric acid in 8 oz. of very hot water and let it cool to luke warm.

4. wet the hair and towel dry it so it is just damp (very important!)

5. pour the solution through the hair and let it sit until the green is gone. You should see the green color start to fade almost immediately.

6. When the green is gone or there is no more color change happening rinse the hair thoroughly with running water for a full five minutes. This will help to rinse out any copper that has been lifted out of the hair.

7. shampoo and rinse at least 2 times...3 is better.

8. condition the hair .

If some green color remains wait 24 hours and repeat the process.

To help prevent reoccurance DEAL WITH THE METAL PROBLEM IN YOUR POOL, then coat the hair with a thick protein based conditoner, and stick it under a swim cap before swimming until you are sure you have DEALT WITH THE METAL PROBLEM IN YOUR POOL!

The chemistry behind this is none too different from the chemisty in removing metal stains from pools with ascorbic acid, which involves dropping the chlorine levels (the hypo kills any chlorine that might be left in the hair) and treating with an acid substance (in pools it's usually ascorbic acid).

Back in the 70's I used to charge $30 and up for this green removing treatment and even then we tried to educate people that their hair wasn't turning green from the chlorine in their pools but from the copper based algecides. I worked as a colorist in a very exlusive day spa in Miami that had a hot tub and after the pool "professional" that took care of it dosed it with algecide we had a number of our blond clients that used the hot tub come out with green hair! :eek: Because I knew how to handle it right away (and did it for free in these cases) I am sure I saved my employer at the time from the possiblility of lawsuits.

To my knowlege the "swimmers hair" shampoos and products on the market are ineffective against this problem except for two products from Nexxus that when both used will work. They are Aloe Rid shampoo and Aloe Rid treatment. Together they contain in their ingredients..guess what...Sodium Thiosulfate and Citric Acid! The two must be used to remove the green. Just using one or the other is not effective. There might be others on the market but I have not come across them.

Hope you never need to use this info!:D

[waterbear]

Great info Waterbear. I was a salon owner for years and I never knew this was how to remove the green. I'm not in the business anymore but I do have some hairdresser friends that might find this helpful.

My question though is does chlorine in the water damage the hair.. raise the cuticle, dry it out, etc. ? I know when I used to cut hair and people were on the swim team their hair would feel "coated" with something. I always thought it was the chlorine.. but now I'm pretty sure I was wrong. :rolleyes: I always told them to make sure they washed and conditioned the hair immediately after swimming. Chlorine will cause the same type of oxidation and denaturization of the keratin that exposure to UV in the sun will. Hair becomes brittle and 'glass like'. If you were a hairdresser you know what I'm talking about. I am soure that there are some other chemical effects but I don't really know the chemisty that might be happening between the protein structure of the hair and the halogens.

BTW, I cannot take credit for this procedure....it really belongs to the cosmetic chemist Jheri Redding, now deceased, founder of Jheri Redding Products Company, Redken, Jherimack, and Nexxus.
http://web.mit.edu/Invent/iow/redding.html