New Pool owner-help!

[MBeardsley]

We finally had an above ground 24' round pool put in two weeks ago. We are enjoying it but overwhelmed with the up keep. The pool store suggested the products PURE and Blue for maintance and start up. I was wondering if any one had heard of this supposed new product and what they thought of it. A friend referred me to this site and told me about the BBB method and I am very interested in switching over to it, I just don't know how or if we can since we started with the pure and blue. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help and input!

[aylad]

What is the active ingredient in Pure and Blue?

Janet

[MBeardsley]

Janet- The active ingredient for the shock is Lithium chlorite and potassium chlorite. We are to add two 1 pound bags of each every 2 weeks. Then if needed we are to add Pure N Blue clear which its active ingredient in copper ions. This is supposed to introduce copper into the water to control algae and bacteria. It sounds like a lot to me- but then what do I know. My concern is that the shock is not true chlorine and will not be as effective as bleach. Have you heard of this product? The only place I have found it online is the pool store's website we bought the pool from. Thanks for any advice you may have for me! Michelle

[Pamsel]

Michelle,

I am no expert compared to the others here, but I know they all say to stay away from copper algaecides. I think you can switch over to the BBB system even if you started with the other products and it sure will cost you a lot less.

I know some of the others here will give you good help.

[ChuckD]

Janet- The active ingredient for the shock is Lithium chlorite and potassium chlorite. We are to add two 1 pound bags of each every 2 weeks. Then if needed we are to add Pure N Blue clear which its active ingredient in copper ions. This is supposed to introduce copper into the water to control algae and bacteria. It sounds like a lot to me- but then what do I know. My concern is that the shock is not true chlorine and will not be as effective as bleach. Have you heard of this product? The only place I have found it online is the pool store's website we bought the pool from. Thanks for any advice you may have for me! Michelle

Michelle, the active ingredient in Clorox is sodium hypochlorite. Without getting into a chemistry discussion and the public display of me falling on my face, chlorite is chlorite. The question is, what's cheaper and what provides more profit for the pool industry. For most of us here the bigger interest is the former. Personally I've found a source of higher potency chlorine at my neighborhood pool store that works out to be even cheaper than Clorox, but for most, unscented Clorox is the way to go.

And what Pamsel said about the copper.

ChuckD

[aylad]

Sounds like you've been "pool stored". Lithium chlorite is a form of chlorine, but it is one of the most expensive. It won't do anything that plain, unscented bleach won't do. As far as the copper stuff, copper does have algaecidal properties but it is also the primary cause for hair and nails turning green and brittle, and pool liner staining. It also causes major problems for people when they start getting algae blooms that won't clear up--because the cure is high levels of chlorine, and you can't do that with copper in your pool without other additives. So.......my advice? Ditch the expensive stuff, go to WalMart and buyu the $15 drop-based 5-way test kit and several gallons of plain, unscented bleach. Run a set of test numbers on your water with a DROP-BASED kit, and post them here. We'll be able to get you headed in the right direction so that your pool is fun and easy to take care of, and not a drain on your wallet.

Janet

[CarlD]

Janet's basically put it in a nutshell.

The lithium chlorine is priced in "Boo-Coo" amounts--far beyond the amount of chlorine it delivers. Effects of high lithium levels in pool water are not really known around here--I don't know how you test for it. Potassium based chlorine is TOTALLY new to me--I'm guessing, like lithium, it's an attempt to bypass the issues of calcium based chlorine. Again, what do high levels do? Both lithium and potassium are metals, like sodium and calcium---and copper.

Bleach is cheap and totally side-effect free. Whether it's bleach or liquid chlorine it's the same stuff. Sometimes the L/C is higher concentrations of Sodium Hypochlorite, but you just use half the amount for the same effect.

[MBeardsley]

Okay- I think I am a little more educated about this whole pool thing. After researching and reading many forums on this site I understand "pool terminology & chemistry" a little better!:) Not enough though- As I said earlier we have been using copper based products to maintain our pool. I now know this is not the route we want to go. The maintenace is every two weeks to use Pure and Blue clear which introduces copper ions to control algae and bacteria, then shock with 1lb bag of lithium hypoclorite and 1lb bag of non-chlorinating shock and lastly add Pure and Blue clean which is to prevent scale formation and stains caused by metals! Ha! Funny! Wonder where those "metals" come from? Anyways, my question is, from what I understand from the forums is before I convert to BBB is that I will need to use a metal sequesterant and will always have to use it. It is not a one time application? Also, if I waited to convert next spring will the metals still be in there. I thought I had read that once I put metals in they will always be there. Is that correct? Is the process as difficult as it seems. More educated but still confused! The pool looks great with exception of algae flair up this last week. Was 107 degrees today and has been for several days now. I used poly quat 60 and clairfier and as I said looks very good. My biggest concern is that the water is not sanatized enough using this product. I desperately want to convert but not sure how to since we have added so much copper already, and of course the pools store is totally against it. They act like I am crazy for even considering it. They told me that it will bleach my liner, my hair and nails and said it was as effective as far as sanatizing using their product. Anyways- now that I understand the basics a little more any info you have on conversion (especially on binding the copper) would be great! Thank you in advance!

Michelle

[aylad]

It's no surprise that the pool store acts like you're crazy--look at the cost of what you're buying versus the cost of several gallons of bleach, and put yourself in their shoes!! You can see where this is goingalready, in that you have to add the cleaner to prevent the metals stains, when the metals are coming from the original product they told you to add!

At this point, I would test for a copper level--it could be that it's not yet high enough to cause you problems, or at least if you drain/refill part of the water, it can be brought under control before you get to the point of having to use the metals sequestrant. Once you have to use it, it is an ongoing thing--everytime you add water or want to shock it, you're going to have to use it, which is why it would be better to stop that problem before it occurs. You can read through the metals forum, especially by any post by mbar (the resident expert on metals and staining) and get an idea of what you're up against if you let the copper get too high before you convert to bleach, and decide if that's a route you want to take. I personally would drain the pool first. But anyway......

As far as the pool store warnings against bleach, it will not bleach your liner, as long as you control your levels (there's a "best guess" table sticky at the top of the chlorine forum to help). I have a liner pool, and not only isn't it bleached, but it's also crystal clear without the cost you have. It will not bleach your hair and nails. Green hair and nails comes from copper, not chlorine.

I think my next step would be to check the copper levels--unfortunately, you will need to get the pool store to check the levels, and they're probably not going to want to be straight with you. I would consider going to a different store for this test. Post the levels back, and that should give us an idea of where your water stands right now.

Janet

[MBeardsley]

Janet- Just want to thank you for your advice, and if you don't mind I am calling on you again!:) I put all fears aside and started the conversion. Two days ago I had the copper level tested and bought metal magic. Before I put it in I had to raise the PH higher than 7.5(according to instruction) I used PH up that I had and it brought it up to over 8.2. I added the metal magic yesterday morning and checked the PH late last night and showed it to be 6.8. My first question is- will metal magic lower the PH or is it because I had no chlorine or copper in it. I went back to the pool store today to have the copper tested before I added the chlorine. He said the levels were low enough to add it now. I went a head with shock and chlorine tablets since I was there and did not have time to run and get bleach. He seemed to think I would not have to continue to add metal magic but do you think that I should seeing how there still shows copper levels of .3. He also said my PH was still down 6.9 and the alkalinity was 50, but I did not need to worry about it that it should pull up on its own after it was stable. Does that sound right to you? Do I need to add increaser to both at this point? I guess overall I just want some reassurance that I am on the right track, and doing what needs to be done in the order it needs to be done. As of 30 miuntes ago the numbers are as followed:

Total Chlorine 3ppm
Ph 6.8
alkalinity 50
cya 30ppm

Right now all I have is the Walmart test kit and I am not sure how to check the Free Chlorine. I hope this makes sense and any info you have would be greatly apprecaiated.

Michelle

[Watermom]

I asked Marie (mbar) to take a look at this thread.

[mbar]

I just got metal magic myself, and have not had a chance to try it out yet. From what I understand, you will not have to use it after an initial dose, as metal magic is supposed to let the metal fall out into crystals so that it can be filtered out, or vacuumed to waste. Since you have metals only from adding them via your sanitizer, you won't be getting any more in your water since you discontinued it's use. Therefore, I would add borax to get your ph up to 7.2, then add baking soda to get your alkalinity up to 80 - 120. The baking soda should also raise your ph, so it should get to the right number 7.4-7.6. Your chlorine is fine a 3ppms, as long as you don't have any algae.

The reason your ph and alk went so low is from the metal magic - it gets rid of metals and staining by making the pool water acidic so it lifts off any stain so it can get rid of the metals. (hopefully it does!). So now you just have to get the ph and alk back in balance. Then you should be fine - just stick to the BBB. You shouldn't have to worry about adding any sequesterant after this

[MBeardsley]

Thank you to all of you who offered your advise. This forum has been a blessing. Thanks again! Michelle