Help chemical balance whacked

[JohnnyP]

9200 Gallons-21 foot pool-solar panel-sand filter
Reading are out of this world .I thought I had a handle on the chemicals.Apparently not.Some guidance please.Here are the reading.
free available chlorine-15
Total chlorine-15
total alkalinity-210
ph level -8.4
Water is a lite green right now.By the reading I would have to say I have more than enough of chlorine .How do I adjust.Hot weather due in this weekend.Thanks for the replys.Note-I am still in the process of figuring the bleach calculator out.

[aylad]

First of all, is this a vinyl pool? And is your Cl that high because you've been shocking to get rid of an algae bloom? What is your CYA level? Do you have metals in your water? These are all things that we need to know to give you guidance regarding your Cl levels.

Your alk is high and needs to be lowered, as is your pH. Take a look at the sticky at the top of the "Alkalinity and Calcium" forum to lower both of those.

Janet

[JohnnyP]

Vinyl liner.CYA means combined chlorine?If so it is 0.0.No there was no algae when I opened it up .I could not get a reading for chlorine so I started with 2 gallons of bleach.Bad choice.Iron -o/ copper -0/calcium hardness-110/ cyanuric acid-0

[waste]

Vinyl liner.CYA means combined chlorine?If so it is 0.0.No there was no algae when I opened it up .I could not get a reading for chlorine so I started with 2 gallons of bleach.Bad choice.Iron -o/ copper -0/calcium hardness-110/ cyanuric acid-0
Johnny, welcome. You need a little 'tweek' on your abreviations - when someone posts their chem #s the results are usually like this:
TC (total chlorine) = x ppm
FC (free chlorine) = x ppm
CC (combined chlorine) = x ppm (TC always = FC + CC)
pH (how acidic/ basic the water is {0 - 14}) = x.x
TA (total alkalinity the ability of the water to resist pH changes) = x ppm
CH (calcium hardness - how much calcium is in the water) = x ppm
CYA (cyanuric acid/ stabilizer - keeps the chlorine from being degraded too fast due to sunlight, though it also slows down the oxidization of organics) = x ppm.
While some folks need to worry about metals in their water, apparently you don't. Giving the test results that I capitalized above is the best way to get a reliable answer to any given chem question (including the type and size of your pool will get you even better info). The more information we have, the better we can help someone with a given problem (as you ask more ?s or read more threads, you'll learn to appreciate this). I hope this has helped you!! :)
My best advice is to give Poolsolutions a good read and play 'quick catch-up' with where the folks here are comming from - you've made the best choice by comming here to 'take control' of your pool!!!

[waterbear]

Question, Are you using test strips for testing. Your pH of 8.4 was a red flag for me. I know some test strips go that high but the drop based kits I have seen don't. If you are using strips they are not accurate enough for balancing the water! (IF you have a drop based kit that goes that high it is bogus since the Phenol Red indicator only tests up to 8.2! Get a different test kit!)

Your Chlorine level is very high, this will cause false readings on the pH and Total Alkalinity. Wait until your FC is below 10 ppm and then retest to get more accurate results.

Since your water is green you need to hit it hard and heavy with chlorine until it clears! How high to go is dependant on your CYA (stabilizer, cyanuric acid) levels. You posted that your cyanuric acid was 0!:eek: Your chlorine will not hold and is getting burned off by the sun very quickly, this is why your water is green! Recommened levels are 30-50 ppm and then keep your FC at 3-6 ppm and shock to 15 ppm. You have a vinyl liner and with NO CYA I would not bring the FC shock level to over 12 ppm to avoid bleaching the liner! You need to test morning, noon and night and keep adding enough chlorine to keep the level at 12 ppm until the pool clears. Vacumn out as much dead algae as you can in the process. Once the algae starts dying the pool will turn milky. Keep hitting it with cholrine until your FC is holding overnight then get some CYA in there to keep the sun from burning it off during the day. Let your FC drop to about 5 ppm once the pool is clear and keep it there.

[waterbear]

It definitely does sound like an algea problem. This will drastically raise your PH. You have to bring your PH down or the algea will continue to thrive. This will also help make your chlorine/sanitizer more effective. There is also a really great algecide that you can get for about $25 at walmart that takes care of almost every type of algae imaginable (including mustard). It is called "algae free". I would dose heavily with that and try to brush the walls and steps/ladder down as much as possible and the vaccum well. (We even took our steps out and bleached them and the sandbags that go inside to hold them down.) If you don't get the algae under control, you'll never be able to get the PH under control, and that will make it harder to level out your chlorine levels.
You also need to bump up your stablilizer, but be careful not to over stablize because this could cause more algae problems. I would up it by what the bottle says, but then be sure to test it reguarly (morning noon and night) to make sure that the levels are in range and not too high. Good luck!

I would suggest you read through the forum and then go to www.poolsolutions.com and read everything you can on there to see how this forum recommends dealing with problems like algae. You recommened an algeacide and I am wondering what is the active ingredient in it. If it is copper it is DEFINITYLY not a recommended product. If it is sodium bromide or inorganic ammonia compounds then it can create a whole new set of problems. If it is a linear quat it is also not a recommended product. If it is polyquat it is fine to use but only after chlorine itiself has not proved effective.

Also please explain to me how an algae bloom will raise pH?

[aylad]

I agree with waterbear...katw78, please take some time and read around the forum before you start posting advice. We have some tried and true methods for clearing up water problems that don't involve dumping other stuff in the water that may cause other problems later.

Also, I'm curious about your reasoning behind the relationship between algae, pH, and chlorine levels--while lower pH may or may not help your chlorine be more effective, I have absolutely NO knowledge of algae blooms creating pH problems.
Janet

[PoolDoc]

Reading are out of this world .

Here are the reading.
free available chlorine-15
Total chlorine-15
total alkalinity-210
ph level -8.4

JohnnyP, how are you testing? More specifically, which kit are you using (brand and model)?

The reason that I ask is that I'm not aware of any kit out there that would allow you to get those readings. :eek: And, if the readings are invalid, then there's no point to give advice, yet.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[waterbear]

JohnnyP, how are you testing? More specifically, which kit are you using (brand and model)?
I will bet money he is using test strips. I am looking at a bottle of PoolTime 6 way strips as I type this and the pH scale goes from the 7.8 graduation to the next graduation of 8.4! If I am not mistaken the Aquacheck do the same!
The reason that I ask is that I'm not aware of any kit out there that would allow you to get those readings. :eek: And, if the readings are invalid, then there's no point to give advice, yet.

Ben
"PoolDoc"
Just a bit of info.

[PoolDoc]

I didn't know the strips would go that high. But do they test chlorine above 15 ppm?

Ben

[CarlD]

FYI:

PoolDoc sliced off the offending portions of this thread and stuck them in the China Shop. He then moved this thread back where it started where we can all now examing JohnnyP's problems a little more peacefully.

[CarlD]

I didn't know the strips would go that high. But do they test chlorine above 15 ppm?

Ben

LaMotte strips have the following ranges
FC, TC: 0 to 10ppm
pH: 6.2 to 8.4
CYA: 0-250 (!)
T/A: 0-240
CH: 0-800

Hach AquaChek 7 strips have the following ranges
FC, TC: 0 to 10ppm (Bromine doubles to 20)
pH: 6.2 to 8.4
CYA: 0-300 (!)
T/A: 0-240
CH: 0-1000

[waterbear]

I didn't know the strips would go that high. But do they test chlorine above 15 ppm?

Ben
All the ones I've ever seen only go to 10 ppm but I wonder if the test strip scanners like the Alex system will give higher readings? Not really familiar with them.

[aylad]

JohnnyP, your best bet is to get a full set of test numbers using a drop-based kit, and post them back here so we have accurate numbers to work with. You can either take a sample to a pool store for testing, IF they used drop-based testing (and don't buy anything they try to sell you, other than a test kit!), or go to WalMart and see if you can find the $15 5-way kit, which will get you started. Once we have accurate numbers, I'm sure we can help you get your pool cleared up again.

Janet