Need advice on estimate for IG liner replacement + other items

[Timmy]

Well my wife and I have been putting off a new liner for the past couple of years, but this year we are moving forward. We have an 18'x36', 33k gallon IG pool with a liner with steel walls that is about 13 years old. The pool is 3.5 feet deep at one end, approx 10 feet at the other end. We have 1 upper skimmer in the middle of the long side of the pool, and a main drain skimmer at the deep end. There are 2 returns, one at each end. We had a guy in today to give us an estimate for a few different items.

1. Just the liner, replaced with new fittings and foam for the walls....$2500
2. We would like to add stairs to our pool, with the liner over the steps. Add another $2500.
3. The current filter location is far away from the pool, right next to the house. I would like to move the filter much closer to the pool so I can eventually put an addition on the house. This pool contractor would build a concrete pad approximately 15-20 feet from the pool, with a square cut out for the lines to come up through. The deep drain would be eliminated, and an additional surface skimmer would be put on the opposite side of the existing surface skimmer. Then the 2 returns would be at the same end, one pointing across the width of the pool, then another pointing towards the length of the pool. He said this would create a swirling effect underwater and bring deep water up to the surface to be filtered. (I really didn't like this idea). This would probably add another $2500 to the bill at least.

We are located in central NJ, so I know prices vary. The liner replacement price was where I thought it would be. The stairs seemed a little steep, but maybe that is the going rate. The new lines seemed way overpriced. That does not include running the 220 electric out there (I would do this). For $2500, he is running approximately 30 feet of hose from one skimmer to the filter, about 50 feet from the far side skimmer to the filter. I can't believe these lines are installed that deep (frost here in NJ is 3 feet, but since the pipes are winterized do they need to be that deep?).

I was just hoping for some thoughts/experience in any of the above mentioned options.

Thanks

[rrwcm]

I just paid $2400 for a new liner and foam for my 18x36 25000 gal IG pool. My pump & filter were originally installed about 15 feet from my pool. The noise was terrible so I finally moved them further away - about 40 feet. If you have to place them so close then consider installing a 2 speed motor on your pump. It should be much quiter and will cut your operating costs. There's another post on the forum about this.

[Timmy]

Thanks Bill. Actually I can position the pump further away if necessary. I planned on eventually building a structure for the filter to be enclosed in (small shed). This would help with the noise.

[waste]

1. Just the liner, replaced with new fittings and foam for the walls....$2500
2. We would like to add stairs to our pool, with the liner over the steps. Add another $2500.
3. The current filter location is far away from the pool, right next to the house. I would like to move the filter much closer to the pool so I can eventually put an addition on the house. This pool contractor would build a concrete pad approximately 15-20 feet from the pool, with a square cut out for the lines to come up through. The deep drain would be eliminated, and an additional surface skimmer would be put on the opposite side of the existing surface skimmer. Then the 2 returns would be at the same end, one pointing across the width of the pool, then another pointing towards the length of the pool. He said this would create a swirling effect underwater and bring deep water up to the surface to be filtered. (I really didn't like this idea). This would probably add another $2500 to the bill at least.

We are located in central NJ, so I know prices vary. The liner replacement price was where I thought it would be. The stairs seemed a little steep, but maybe that is the going rate. The new lines seemed way overpriced. That does not include running the 220 electric out there (I would do this). For $2500, he is running approximately 30 feet of hose from one skimmer to the filter, about 50 feet from the far side skimmer to the filter. I can't believe these lines are installed that deep (frost here in NJ is 3 feet, but since the pipes are winterized do they need to be that deep?).

I was just hoping for some thoughts/experience in any of the above mentioned options.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Tim, redoing a pool can be a major undertaking. If everything else is good except the liner, you may be better leaving it at just replacing the liner. On the other hand, if the crew is comming over anyway, why not make a few improvements while they're there and the pool is down?
You can get some other quotes for the same work, always a good idea :) , and then decide whether the cost vs. repair(improvement) is worth it.
I also notice a few key expenses not mentioned in your post:
1. Patching/ refinnishing the bottom. - Any pool is likely to have some places which need to be fixed before dropping a new liner - is this included in the quote?
2. With reguard to the 'under the liner' steps, is the patching of the floor that they rip up to put them in included? (* I'm assuming a vermiculite or sand and cement bottom for both of these - if you have a sand bottom is the retroweling of the sand included + any sand that has to be trucked in to fill the bottom ?) [ the dealer cost of the 'retro corner' steps is probably why the
addition of the steps is as much as the liner drop. That and the amount of work required to get them in correctly --- if this is their first stab at putting in this kind of step, DON'T let them, it is a lot tricky and the possibility of permanent step wrinkles is VERY real]
3. Who is going to pay for the sections of deck they have to remove to install the new skimmer and the *BONDED* handrails for the new steps? And the repouring of those sections?
4. How long is the work guaranteed? ( a lot of companies overtighten the return faceplates causing them to crack within a year)

On another note, you ask if the lines need to be below the frost-line. YES, I think of it like getting insurance on a rental car - you PROBABLY won't need it, but for the peace of mind why not? [ Think Murphy's Law]

As a last note, the new plumbing plan sucks. If they are making changes to the pool's original plumbing try something like; add a low suction in the deep end and put the new return in the corner at the steps. If the main drain isn't broken, it's your best source for a secondary, non skimmer, suction. ( If you'd give me a little more detail on your plumbing lay out, I'll happily give my best advice on the proposed lay out).

I'm not sure that the guy you talked to wasn't trying to 'screw' you - my boss overprices jobs he doesn't want - if they are willing to pay, he'll take the job. (Just make sure that the company you sellect CAN do the job RIGHT)

[kaybinster]

I would NEVER take out the main drain from the bottom of the deep end, why on earth is he suggesting that??? I have a 20 x 40 IG and have a main drain plus two skimmers and two main returns and a third smaller return that the polaris unit hooks up to (I am in Northern NJ).

[Timmy]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I feel better knowing it was not just me who felt the removal of the main drain was a bad idea. That almost makes me want to forget using this guy to begin with. His price of $2500 is below a few other quotes we have received ($2800 and $3000).

Only one quote mentioned patching the floor if needed (up to 5 sf is included). 5 SF is nothing.

These are additional questions I will now be able to ask, thanks to you guys. I generally do all work when it comes to my house, including electric, plumbing, roofing, etc. and hate it when I need a professional to come do something I do not have much knowledge or experience doing.

For instance, the first guy that came out looked at the pool and when I was telling him about the liner history and what we were looking for, he kind of just ignored me and asked where the filter was. When I showed it to him he immediately said the valves are old and should be replaced and moved closer to the pool. That just made me feel like he was looking to make money somewhere else than just a liner replacement.

[kaybinster]

Try calling Riverview Pools in Bridgewater.

[Timmy]

We have a call into Riverview, haven't heard back. Have you done business with them before?

[kaybinster]

We have a call into Riverview, haven't heard back. Have you done business with them before?

Yes, check you PM - they are great!

[Timmy]

Thanks. I plan on calling them again. Good service is worth every penny.

[Waterworks]

Just for another point of view, my price for an 18' X 36' Liner replacement is around $3000-$3500 CAD. This price includes 4 hours for my crew to repair and clean the bottom of the pool and saving the water in 2 of our quick-set pools. The price of $2500 for the stairs is not bad either. But like Waste said, whoever is doing it should have experience with liners over steps. They can be extremely tricky.
I would also agree with the idea that the first guy might be pricing the plumbing part of the job a bit high because he might not want to do the job. I would definitly get a few more prices.

Brad

[waste]

Brad, we are 'brothers in pools' as we both are professional 'builders - whatever' you need to modify, or make, a new signature to reflect the fact that you are 'in' the buisiness, persuant to Ben's requirement that we all disclose our association with the industry, FWIW it took me a few posts to realise that mine was no longer there.