Too much DE in pool

[SL Dan]

Hi,

I've got a problem which has persisted for a couple months and I've searched but maybe I'm not searching for the correct terms.

All winter long (such as it is in LA) the pool was nice and blue. Come spring I cleaned the DE filter, and must have put too much DE in, because it blew straight back into the pool. The bottom of the pool is cloudy, unless I try to brush off the sides, in which case the entire pool is cloudy. I've cleaned the filter again - twice.

And now it's been turning green (slightly, but enough). My best theory is that the DE is holding onto the the algae. So I'm about to try a flocculant, followed by vacuuming.

Am I thinking right?

[Pappy]

I'm surely not the expert on DE filters, but I do know DE should NOT be blowing through your filter. Too much DE would clog a properly operating filter, not blow through it. If it's turning green, that probably means you have an algae problem that is not directly related to the filter issue. To get good answers, tell us the brand and model of the filter, how you are testing your water chemistry, chlorine, ph, cya, etc. levels. I'm pretty certain the experts here will advise against flocculants.

[SL Dan]

Right, yet there's a lot of DE in my pool, and it's been there for a while now. The pool clouds up as soon as I attempt to brush the algae off the steps and sides.

It's a Purex/Pentair 36 sq. ft filter. I'm testing with strips, recommended by my neighbor and acquired from the experts at Home Depot. I didn't realize until today that they were no good.

[SL Dan]

PS - everything I've been able to find online tells me that one of the surest ways to get DE back into your pool is to put too much into the filter.

[Pappy]

A lot of DE in your pool indicates your filter is malfunctioning for some reason. I would open the filter, and CLOSELY inspect all gaskets, o-rings, grids and connections. The fact that the issue started when you serviced the filter leads me to believe there is "probably" an easy fix issue. An out-of- place gasket or o-ring letting water bypass the filter or maybe a torn grid. When you cleaned the filter after the problem started, was there DE on the grids or in the bottom of the filter housing? Is your filter pressure normal? I'd bet it is running low. Do you know if your filter is a 2000-series or FNS - or something else.

[Pappy]

How much DE did you put in? If your pressure is running high, keep cleaning the filter and brushing. Eventually you'll filter out all the excess DE. If your pressure is running low, that means the DE - and lots of other stuff - is bypassing the filter grids. And all this has nothing to do with green.

[SL Dan]

It WAS running high. Now it's normal. But I still have all this DE in my pool.

I believe it's a 2000 series filter.

[SL Dan]

Everything else checked out normal. Some DE at the bottom of the filter, most of it on the grids, which were new last year and have no holes.

[Pappy]

Okay. If you keep brushing and stirring up the DE where the filter can catch it, then cleaning when pressure gets high, you'll eventually get that issue cleaned up. If there's a walmart close to you that has the HTH 6Way pool test kit, get one and tell us what your chlorine, ph, and CYA levels are. Then someone can help with the green.

[SL Dan]

Alright. So no to the flocculant, then. You sure?

[SL Dan]

I've got a couple other test kits here. One's called Guardex; the other doesn't have a name. But the refills are from Home Depot.

[Pappy]

I'm absolutely certain that MOST of the time, the experts here, and I'm not one of them, advise against flocculants. That might clear the DE out of the pool quicker, but many flocculants contain other "stuff" that is bad for your pool and often introduce other issues that are much more difficult to correct than filtering excess DE from the water. I assume you are running the pump 24/7? Are all your test kits strips? If you have a drop based (titration) kit, that will probably get you by for now.

[Pappy]

Also, if PoolDoc or one of the others does advise a flocculant later, maybe they can offer a good choice brands. Waiting a day at this point isn't going to make much difference, and it is much easier to add something tomorrow, than to remove something you shouldn't have added today. POP means Pool Owner Patience - that's a term that I learned here. I've often heard that lack of POP is one of the biggest problems pools have.

[SL Dan]

OK, thanks. The test kits are 2 drop, 1 strip.

And no, it's not on all the time. I ran it that way for 3 or 4 days and saw no change.

[Pappy]

Running 24/7 will clear up the excess DE faster, and you'll have to clean it more often. Have you tested chlorine and ph levels with a drops kit? Do you know what your CYA level is? I was under the impression that DE filters "like" to be run constantly to keep the from dropping off the grids. BUT again, I'm not the DE filter expert.

[SL Dan]

Yes, I've tested with the drops kit, and I'm good on chlorine levels. CYA is hard to tell, but might be a bit low.

Many thanks for your help.

[SL Dan]

BTW - if anyone cares, this problem has been going on for two months now, but until yesterday, and for the longest time, I was unable to get into this site.

It takes an inordinate amount of my time, and has my wife saying, Let's just drain the pool and leave it empty.

[Pappy]

I don't know what to tell you about not being able to get into the site. Is the your filter pressure climbing? What is the current water condition? Are you able to post actual numbers for chlorine, ph, and cya levels? Nobody can help very much when they have no idea what they are working with. Draining a pool, even a concrete pool, can cause severe damage.

[SL Dan]

Yeah, I'm aware of that, so I'm trying everything. My wife doesn't care, she'll never go in again. But if it ever starts warming up here, I go in every day.

No, the filter pressure is right where it was.

The water is seemingly unchanged. The filter has been running for 2 days. I say seemingly, but the DE MAY have thinned out slightly. It actually seems to be as thick in there as ever, but there's less build up on the bottom. So maybe it's working.

I have no idea how you folks come up with numbers. I've got the yellow liquid and the red liquid, and the best I could come up with is an estimate.

Thanks again.

[PoolDoc]

If it IS DE, flocculant will NOT help. DE settles more quickly than flocc-ed algae . . . if you turn the pump off.

I haven't read this thread carefully, but I read enough to know that you need to verify that it IS DE, and not dead algae. If you grab a pinch, DE will have texture and substance; dead algae will not.

And IF it IS DE, something's wrong with the filter, though it could just be a mis-oriented valve.

[SL Dan]

Well, it wasn't in the pool til I cleaned the filter. Then it was in the pool immediately. It's not dead algae, as far as I know. It's been a couple months, and it immediately clouds the pool the minute I stir it up. It's greenish now, but it used to be more-or-less white.

The strange thing is that I could swear I saw it spouting back into the pool the minute I put the DE in, much faster than the water actually goes.

===========================

BTW, this equipment is dead simple. Just off and on. If by a mis-oriented valve, you mean one of things on top with multiple settings (I have one of those on our pond), it's not that.

[PoolDoc]

It really sounds like you have a hole in one of the membranes (or fingers?).

But again, if it's DE, it WILL have 'texture' when you pinch it between your fingers. And, it will NOT be green.

So, I'm thinking you have a filter problem AND algae.

[SL Dan]

Right, I have algae NOW, but a few weeks ago I had the same problem and it wasn't green. I've taken the filter apart twice since the problem began, inspected all the grids, and they're fine. But of course, you're right - I must have a filter problem.

But my original question was: how do I get the DE out of the pool?

[SL Dan]

Oh, and I know it's DE because, when I vacuum the pool, there's an excessive amount of DE in the leaf trap.

[PoolDoc]

So . . . fix your filter. ;)

[SL Dan]

If I could find what's wrong with it, it would have been fixed months ago. Are you saying that it will then filter the DE? That that's how I get it out of the pool?

[SL Dan]

I know that the filter has a leak - I've been looking for the source of it for about 3 years. But it's not any worse than it was, and this incident happened some time in March.

[PoolDoc]

I'm not talking about a water leak. DE will not pass through a functioning DE filter.

In fact, it won't even pass a functioning sand or cartridge filter ( though it can DAMAGE cartridges!). I've actually used that fact for years to test sand filters.

[SL Dan]

Ah, OK, thanks.

Well, I can take it apart again, the 3rd time, and see if I spy anything. But I'm pretty sure it would have turned up before.

[PoolDoc]

It's actually pretty straight forward:
+ You put DE in the skimmer.
+ DE shoots out of the returns.
+ Ergo, EITHER the piping is malfunctioning, and bypassing the filter
+ OR the piping is working AND the FILTER is malfunctioning.

DE does not pass THROUGH properly functioning DE filters.

Period.

But unless you REALLY know the filter . . . and how ALL the icky bits actually WORK . . . finding the bypass point can be a challenge.

[SL Dan]

Yeah, that's what I can't figure out. How could the piping be malfunctioning? It was laid underground almost 60 years ago; I've lived here for 25 years. How could it possibly be bypassing the filter (which is what it seems to be doing)?

[PoolDoc]

My wife used to say we needed a son named "Frank" so I would not be (frank). :)

But I'm gonna be, anyhow: the odds are VERY high that you are simply overlooking the problem inside the filter.

If you can't find it yourself, get another filter. In theory, you could hire someone, but most of the pool guys I've seen couldn't find their way around a DE filter with 2 flashlights, a manual, and a factory rep helping!

[SL Dan]

Yeah, I get it. And I agree. Today I've attempted to recruit my neighbor to help, because the filter has to be semi-inverted with all the piping glued in place.

Here we go again.

IF I have to get another filter, what do you recommend? And hopefully as inexpensive as possible.

[PoolDoc]

Probably a Hayward S244T ProSeries Sand Filter -- InTheSwim seems to be selling them for $340, which is an excellent price.

If your pump is not too big for it, it will typically last many years, though you may have to replace the top of the multiport every 4 - 8 years.

And . . . your water will not be quite as clear as with a DE filter.

Ouch! You're in Cali. You may have to go with another DE or cartridge filter, because of water restrictions. Dunno, then. Avoid Sta-Rite! If you can possibly afford to buy US, do so. Chinese filters are cheapo -- in price AND design. If you have to go that route, start saving NOW for a new filter in 4 years.

Jandy cartridge filters often do well. Both Hayward and Pentair make some decent DE filters, but I don't have experience with them, so I can't make a particular recommendation.

[SL Dan]

Poking around the site, didn't I see this recommended? A Sta-Rite S7M400 System:3 Modular Media SM Series Pool Filter, 400 Square Feet, 50-115 GPM?

Not that I can afford it this weekend - but is this what you're saying to avoid?

PS - is your Amazon page down?

[PoolDoc]

That filter is one I've worked with, and it functions well, but is a pain in the a## to clean.

Basically, everything in the StaRite spherical profile is a product to avoid, for a variety of reasons.

[SL Dan]

Got it. Thank you. I'll report back.

[SL Dan]

Well, it's done. The pool is fine. I don't know what happened. I mean, I know what we did, but don't know why it didn't work before.

With my neighbor, who also has a pool, as witness, I opened the filter, and removed the grids. We looked over everything. He saw and verified that the manifold was properly seated. Then I cleaned the grids and had him inspect them, and he verified that they were fine. I reseated the manifold, reassembled the filter, and off we went.

The only difference was that he was meticulous about bleeding all of the air out of the system, which I wasn't, but have never been, yet the filter didn't stop filtering until 2 months ago. And even so, there's a big bubbling every time the filter starts up, as air gets into the water for a little bit.

He also insisted that I put the full amount of DE in, seven pounds worth. I usually go a bit less, and it's never been an issue. Whatever did it, it worked. I'll be damned if I know what happened. Guess he has good pool mojo, though he's often struggling with it, too.

His theory is the manifold rising up and sucking back down, but I don't think so.

I also think I see a tiny bit of DE in the pool at night, but can't be sure.

[PoolDoc]

:D

Every single person I know who has done service work -- pools, computers, cars, small engines, etc -- has had the experience of taking something broken apart, finding nothing wrong, putting it back together, and having it work fine.

Every single one.

(And yes, it's happened to me, many times.)

[SL Dan]

Right, same in electronics. I use a lot of them, have no idea how to fix them, but know how to disassemble and reassemble them. It usually works.

It would have been nice to learn something, but oh well.

Many thanks to you both for participating in my thought process.

[PoolDoc]

. . . must be a matter of exorcising the glitch demons, with cold iron OR hand-warmed chrome-vanadium tool steel!

[Pappy]

You are very welcome! Good luck and enjoy the pool!

[SL Dan]

. . . must be a matter of exorcising the glitch demons, with cold iron OR hand-warmed chrome-vanadium tool steel!

!!!!!

Even with pools. Sheesh!

[BuzWms]

Let's try this again.

Reopening an old wound.

August 2018 I had a new FNS Plus filter installed by a professional. Evetything ran great for a few months. Then I back washed and I suddenly lost pressure. When I added DE, it immediately came out the returns. Cold weather was coming, so I let it slide.

Trying to clean up the pool for summer, I opened the filter and saw the manifold was cracked really bad. That explains the pressure loss. I replaced the manifold and put it back together. Pressure shot up to 35 psi (should be about 10). I added DE and out it comes from the returns. A few minutes later my Kreepy Krauly stopped working.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I assumed once I fixed the filter, I'd run the system for 48 hours with a couple backwashes and it'd be clear again. So much for assumptions.

Right now the water is vivid green with algae slush and DE all over the bottom and steps. The wife is not happy (believe it or not!!)

160,000 gallon concrete pool
FNS Plus DE filter

[BuzWms]

16,000 gallon pool, not 160,000. (couldn't figure out how to edit the original message)

[JimK]

Just a wild guess, but with a green pool I’d expect a DE filter to clog real fast. Maybe it clogged and a grid ruptured from the high pressure?

[BuzWms]

Real fast I could understand, but immediately??