Very Green Cloudy Pool

[Robin N]

We have moved into our house that has a pool - the previous owners were only using bleach pucks and only tested the water at the beginning of each season (at a pool store) and used bleach pucks the rest of the season. We decided to use pool forum methods and started adjust the pH, Cl and Alkalinity levels. The pool was cloudy blue for about a week and now we've got a very cloudy green pool. With brown on some of the floor. We've ordered the PS 234 Kit, but it's not here yet. We're using the OTO kit that was here with the pool stuff. I'm estimating from the test kit that my Cl level is at 12 ppm. We've shocked it, scrubbed it, backwashed it, and ran the robot vacuum and it's been 3 days and we're still green. I see another vacuum type head out there, I'm going to try and figure it out today. What else can I do while I wait on the PS 234? I'm not seeing any progress.

[JohnT]

What kind of pool? Post a full set of test numbers, from a pool store if you have to go that route.

If it turned green again after you got it blue, you either let the chlorine drop or have copper in the water. To defeat algae, you have to add chlorine several times a day in many cases. You have to test, and test accurately to know how much to add.

While waiting on good numbers, maintain your chlorine level and filter 24/7. Brush the pool daily, and vacuum to waste if possible.

[Robin N]

My pool is a 25,000 gallon pool with a vinyl liner. My numbers last night were Cl 12, Ph 7.6, Alkalinity 240. I added another gallon of bleach last night and tested this morning and the Cl was 12 so I added another gallon of bleach early this morning to try to raise it up to 15. I just took another reading of the Cl and it is at 15 now.

[ivyleager]

If all the previous owners used were chlorine pucks, you may have a high CYA level, which means you may be needing to shock @ chlorine levels higher than 15.

If you have a pool store nearby, let them test your water, but don't let then talk you into buying anything. However, if you have a high copper level, you will need a metal sequestrant. That you should get while you are there.

Good luck,

CaryB
Go 'Canes!!

[Robin N]

Thanks for all the help. I do have well water, so I'm thinking I might have metals now, since I'm keeping the Chlorine around 15, vacuuming to waste, scrubbing, backwashing and I'm still not seeing any results. I did adjust the CYA about 4 days ago.

I'll take a water sample to a pool store tomorrow and see what they come up with on the metals. Hopefully I can get this straightened out soon.

Robin

[CarlD]

Robin,
Yes, get it tested and plan on getting your own good test kit.

Guessing at problems and then throwing in chemicals is the second fastest way to get into pool trouble. The first, of course, is pure neglect.

Also, I believe in the Occam's Razor method (the simplest solution is the solution), very similar to the K.I.S.S. method. Start at the beginning: Chlorine, pH, Total Alk, CYA and Calcium levels. Don't go on to metals until those are fixed (well, calcium IS actually a metal, but we never see it as one, just as a salt. Throw calcium metal in water and it boils, which is better than sodium metal, which blows up!)

[Robin N]

I added a gallon of bleach last night to make sure the Cl level stayed high. This morning I tested at 6:30 am. My Cl was at 12 so I added 2 more gallons of bleach hoping to keep the Cl up. My pH was 8.0, and the chart on my Mark IV Test Kit reads that I need to add 6 1/4 pints of Muratic Acid. From what I've read on this site I should focus on the Cl first and get it under control first. I'll buy more Muratic Acid at the pool store today but I'm not sure on when I should add it; I did read that I should add no more than 1 pint per 10,000 gallons in one day. My Alkalinity was 240.

Also I read on Ben's post that most kits with my order # should ship Monday. I'll feel a lot more confident then.

I'll retest my Cl level at 7:30 am, take the fresh water sample to the pool store and post my results when I return. I'm assuming ALL I should need at the pool store is Muratic Acid and possibly the metal sequesterant.

Robin N
25,000 gallon pool with vinyl liner

[CarlD]

Before you test your pH, add two drops of chlorine neutralizer, thiosulfate (taylor R-0007) to be sure you're getting an accurate reading, otherwise that pH number may not be right. IF 8.0 is right, you need to bring pH down. Just getting it down to 7.5 will increase chlorine effectiveness immensely and shorten your job.

You can use muriatic acid or dry acid, but you do need to get it down, assuming the number is right.

[Robin N]

I retested the pH, adding the 2 drops of Chlorine Neutralizer first and I still got an 8.0 reading - my current test only goes up to 8, and it was a "heavy" 8 reading. Is it possible to dilute this test with 2 parts distilled water and multilply by 3, as with the Chlorine test?

[gonefishin]

I did adjust the CYA about 4 days ago.


Robin

What was the CYA level before you adjusted it?

What is the CYA level after you adjusted it?

How did you adjust the CYA level?


dan

[Robin N]

Dan - my husband was taking care of things at that point and I don't know what those results were - I kept the bottle he used in case I needed to get more. I'm keeping a very detailed log now that we've gone green. All the green problems started overnight when he added Muratic Acid. Now I'm the only one doctoring the pool.

[Robin N]

I'm back from the Pool Store - I thought the testing included metals and when I saw it didn't and asked for it, the guy had already dumped my water. He did tell me that the previous owner would have probably mentioned it to me if it had been a problem (but if the previous owner didn't run tests and only used pucks, would he have known? We didn't have a problem until we raised the pH level) and he said it's "not typical" to have problems with metal around here even with well water unless I have copper pipes. (But I live 30 minutes outside the city too)

Here are my other #'s:

Free Chlorine 5.2 ppm
Total Chlorine 5.4 ppm
Combined Chlorine 0.2 ppm
pH OVER 8.2
Hardness 80 ppm
Alkalinity (w/ stabilzer correction) 181 ppm
Cyanuric Acid 130 ppm
Total Dissolved Solids 500 ppm

Recommended adding 1 quart of Super AlgaeBomb 60, said I should see a change in 4 - 6 hours or maybe by tomorrow. He wants me to bring in another water sample Monday and ask it to be tested for metals.

Other notes on the bill:
Add 2 gal and 1 pt of 14 oz Muriatic Acid
Add 45 lb and 5 oz of Water Hardness Increaser
Add 10.0 oz Chlor Shock

He said my Chlorine levels were way too high, needed to be around 1.0 and I was a 5.2. He said we would work on the pH and the Alkalinity Monday, after we see what the Algaecide is going to do.

My question is should I run another sample out there to be tested for metals? Should I add the Algaecide? Add Muriatic Acid ASAP? Where do I go from here? I noticed some white foam in the skimmer today and that's new - is it dying algae?

Robin
25000 gallon in ground pool
Vinyl Liner
Sand Filter

[CarlD]

Robin,
You can take his advice or ours. They are contradictory. You cannot follow both.

You may or may not believe me, but his advice is good for one thing--ringing up the register. It is NOT good advice for your pool.

He's telling you to increase hardness in a vinyl pool. This is pure utter nonsense. The reason is that the "hardness" is calcium and calcium is needed to prevent the water from leaching calcium from the concrete or plaster walls. There's no calcium to leach from vinyl so it's pure garbage.

As I said, you can follow his advice or ours, but if you follow his and it doesn't work, it's that much harder for us to help you.

[Robin N]

Carl,

Thanks for your response. I did go back to the pool store again to have the water tested for metals. It came back negative. This time I spoke to a different man. He told me I needed to get the acid levels up and shock the pool. (Which I knew from here).

So my question is where do I go from here? Add the Muriatic Acid to kick my bleach into action? How much acid do I add at one time and how often?

Robin

[CarlD]

I'd start with a quart of Muriatic Acid, wait several hours, then test the pH again. You want to get it at or under 7.2, but above 6.9. If you measure your TA at that time, it should be lower. Then you follow the lowering alkalinity rules in that topic area.

[Robin N]

I checked my Cl level again and it's low again - around 6. We had a lot of heavy rain today, maybe that affected it? Should I add more bleach and then later add acid or add the acid now and bleach later?

[CarlD]

Add them both, but wait an hour or two to let the first circulate.

[Robin N]

Just wanted to post an update to see if I'm doing everything I can be.

Tested 2 hours ago and here are my #'s:

Cl 24
pH 8
Acid called for 2 1/2 pints
T/A 170

I've been brushing the pool, vacuuming to waste, running the robot, adding Muriatic Acid (I've added 1 gallon + 2 quarts all in 1 quart increments over the past 3 days) I also stopped aerating - I had been aerating continuously up until yesterday afternoon. I read on this site to wait on that until the pH is lowered.

The pool is still the same green. I did think it was clearing up a bit, but after running the robot it was very cloudy again and I couldn't see the 3rd step at all, and it had been visible. After you stare at that green for so long it starts to make your judgement hazy on whether you see change or not.

I also read the trick about the hose on the skimmers - I'm trying that too, but it's not making the slimey mess I was warned about on here. It looks normal.

I am seeing stuff on the steps now - like dirt or something.

When I backwash I don't see much dirt - and I'm not vacumming a trail or anything on the pool. The robot recovered a couple of leaves - all the green is just in the water. I had a bottled sample of the water left from my trip to the pool store (I took 2 that 2nd trip for good measure) and I did see algae settled on the bottom of the bottle.

I just added 1 quart of the Muriatic Acid to the pool again tonight. Hopefully that will bump that pH down. It seems to be getting closer to matching the 8 now. (My test only goes to an 8) I think my kit from Ben is close to being shipped...crossing my fingers...=)

[Robin N]

Water still looks the same today, BUT I might be getting somewhere. This morning my #'s were as follows:

Cl 12 (will add more bleach)
pH 7.6
Acid (did the test to tract my progress on the Muriatic Acid - now calls for 1 1/4 pints, which I added)
T/A 160

I'll add more bleach in a couple of hours, and wait to recheck the pH. Very excited it's coming down now. I can't imagine the thrill of seeing blue!

[Simmons99]

Robin - be careful on all the acid you are adding. Many testing kits for PH will give you a falsly high reading when there are high chlorine levels. If you see that your PH tests lower when the chlorine level is lower, it may just be the high chlorine levels interfering with the test.

Also - have you put copper products in the pool? Have you had the water tested for iron or copper? These metals will come out of the water at high chlorine levels and give the water a green color. Copper is usually in algecides. You can have your pool store test for the metals.

[waterbear]

You may want to try simplybluepools.com This guy got kicked off the forum once by Ben and now he's back. He has spammed another board I am on so badly that about 4-5 pages of their chemical section are nothing but spam and threats to the moderators of that board!

[Robin N]

I have had it tested for metals, and it was negative. Water still hasn't changed any though.

I'll slow down on the acid now. Is it just a waiting game now, and keeping the Chlorine level at around 12?

[bgray]

The most recent test results do not include CYA, which kinda dictates how high CL ppm needs to be to reach breakpoint. The last I saw, your CYA was 130, which would require Cl to be higher than 12...

The only thing I'm not sure about is maintaining a level that won't bleach your liner (since mine is a gunite pool).

The key is reaching and maintaining high enough CL levels to get on top of the growing algae. By the sound of things, you may not have yet gotten there???

[Robin N]

Latest Test Results as of 4 PM today were:

CYA 130
Cl 24
pH 8.0
Acid calls for the addition of 3 3/4 pints of Muriatic Acid (which I'm not relying on)
T/A 180

It doesn't make sense to me that these numbers have fluctuated. I'm feeling overwhelmed by all this.

[mbar]

I don't think your numbers have fluctuated much. You will have to keep your chlorine up at 25, which you are. Your ph and alkalinity went up, but not by much. You will have to add acid again, but I wouldn't add too much at once. You won't bleach your liner, because you have a cya of 130. The high ph and alkalinity weaken the chlorine a little too. Just keep your chlorine up at 25 consistantly, and you should start to see your water change color. You are wasting the chlorine you are putting in if it doesn't get up past the breakpoint - the shock level. Your chlorine will just continue to be used up by the algae, and without the 25 ppms, you can't kill all the algae, which keeps you in a loop. Consistant shock levels which will be at leat 25 with your cya levels and ph and alk, will kill the algae. Make sure you brush the pool and vacuum the stuff that falls on the bottom to waste. Keep your filter running 24/7.

[Robin N]

I bumped the Cl level up to 30 two nights ago. I haven't seen a change yet - I continue to backwash (3X a day), brush the pool, and vacuum to waste. I'm not seeing much of anything. My water is very cloudy still, I can see one step down, it has just a small amount of the dead looking algae on the step.

I'm keeping the Cl level at around 40 since my CYA is 130. I know it may be "overkill", BUT I am waiting on Ben's Test Kit and I'm using the diluted method on a Walmart test and it's hard to determine the exact amount of Cl, so I'm leaning on the heavy side. I've been testing every couple of hours, but it doesn't seem like the pool is losing any Chlorine. It this normal? Does it mean I haven't added enough Cl to do the job or does it sound like it's working?

I've read Pamsel's posts - she added Polyquat in addition to what I'm doing. Is this something I should get? If so, how much should I add?

The previous owner of the house saw the pool this morning. He nearly fainted. This whole situation is humiliating. This pool is getting the best of me.

[Simmons99]

You have kept your chlorine levels that high for the last two days straight? Are you sure you don't have filter problems? If so, maybe it's time to try a clarifier as a last resort?

(WAIT for some responses from mods on this before you run to the pool store)

[Robin N]

I think I do have filter problems. I went out yesterday and there was water around my filter, and some green slime. I'm totally new at this. I looked at the filter and the pump and I did find a place that looked like it could open. I unscrewed the two knobs and found the basket that was removable. I dumped it - there were a few leaves and a lot of bugs in it. I got it back on there and thought I had solved my problem. This morning I went back out to backwash and there was water around the pump again. I checked the basket but it was all clear. Then I couldn't get the thing put back together right - I wrestled with it for a while and finally realized I needed help - the previous owner is still moving some things out of his shop, and luckily he showed up within the hour. He oiled the knobs and used a wrench or something. I'm afraid if I mess with too much equipment out there I'll end up stopping the pump.

As for the filter being a sand filter - the pool shop told me that. I know it's a Hayward Super Pump, Self Priming 1 1/2 Horsepower 115/230 V

There is a plastic "wheel" thing that goes to the pump equipment. I haven't found where it goes yet. (Replacement part I think) After looking at the filter again - the Vari-Flo part, I the plastic wheel goes under my controls for the filter. If I unscrew maybe 10 screws, I could take the top off and find where I need to be checking? Or is this something I need to leave up to a pool maintenance person?

I won't do it until I hear more - I don't want to really mess things up. If it is my filter, once it's working will it help filter out what I've been working on or has all my work been wasted effort? (Besides learning valuable lessons the hard way?)

[Infidel]

I've been dealing with a cloudy / algae pool recently as well, just got a real test kit 2 days ago and I'm seeing improvement already. Some thoughts from another clueless person that inherited a pool. All of this relates to my system, yours may differ.

On top of your sand filter you should have a gauge that effectively indicates how the system is functioning. When mine is working right it's around 10 psi, if brush and vacuum then it can get up to 30-40psi pretty quick, indicating that the filter is full of crud and needs backwashing. I don't backwash if there's no increase in pressure as I feel this indicates there's still good flow/filtering happening.

There is a prefilter on the pump, with a clear top on it and a filter basket inside. The impeller on the pump can get bound up with junk that gets through the basket, which keeps water from getting sent to the filter correctly. This is indicated by the sound of bubbles in the pump and low psi on the sand filter. For a long time I couldn't figure out why my filter wasn't maintaining pressure, then I realized I had to take the pump apart and clean the impeller, this is done by undoing the band/strap clamp between the pump and prefilter. I put a heavy rock in the prefilter basket adn that has really cut down on my need to take apart the pump to clear the impeller. Are you getting pressure in your sand filter? That might be why you're not getting filtration.

Next, try leaving your pump off for 12+ hours and see what settles to the bottom, vacuum it to waste and see how that does. I have had great success using floculant in the past, you could try it as a last resort.

For some reason my sand filter is very innefective at removing algae, best to let it settle and then vacuum to waste.

[Robin N]

Quick update on my pool - the green started getting lighter yesterday, I'm running my filter 24/7, continuing to brush and vacuum to waste daily, running the Polaris each day, backwashing 3X a day, testing every 2 hours and pouring the chlorine, keeping the levels high. I also installed a new pressure meter and it runs at about 1/2 power (15) when the pump is running and on backwash too. My water looks kind of greenish/grey right now. I am so happy to see progress. I can see the Polaris running on the shallow end now. Thanks for the continued support, especially from Carl S!

[bgray]

Home stretch! Keep it up! It will pay off!!!:)

[Robin N]

My pool turned cloudy blue today and I can see through the water enough to see dead algae on the bottom! There's not much at all now - very small amount in the shallow end, more in the deep end. It sure was easier to vacuum this time, being able to see the algae. I received Ben's kit Tuesday and I used up all of the Drop Kit Cl test already, but it sure was a lifesaver. I've already ordered a replacement bottle. The good advice I rec'd here and Ben's test kit made all the difference in killing the algae my pool. The kit is worth it's weight in gold. I still have to get from here to clear sparkley water, but I am on my way - and I've learned so much and learning more each day.