Need instructions on opening a pool

[littleHeidi]

We just uncovered our pool today. We used a mesh cover all winter long. It looks pretty good (considering what I was expecting). Lots of algae of course but at least it kept all the leaves out. Now what do I do? I have an IG vinyl 22,000 gal. kidney shaped pool. 3 feet in the shallow end, 8 feet in the deep one. Oh, and we live in the heart of North Carolina.

[littleHeidi]

Noone has responded to my post. I'm getting a few gallons of bleach, borax and baking soda tomorrow and need my memory refreshed on where to start. I'm assuming I need to test the water first to determine how much bleach to start with. HOW do I determine this? Could SOMEONE please let me know? Thanks very much in advance.

[SJohnson]

Ok, littleHeidi . . . I'll try to help . . .

Let's see, we do need to know your test results, pH and especially your cya levels, so we know how much chlorine would be considered shocking to the water. As a general rule, you can raise the chlorine level to about 10-12 ppm and hold it there for a few days until the algae goes away, but if your cya is at 120 ppm, or something higher, 12 ppm of chlorine wouldn't reach your breakpoint . . . so, test that water, and then start from there. If your cya levels are normal, in the 30-50 ppm range then the 12 ppm of chlorine would work just fine for you. pH also affects the effectiveness of the chlorine too, so you want to get that under control first . . . testing will ultimately save you allot of guesswork and time spent out of the water. Post some tests, and people will respond, sort of like the "build it and they will come" thing . . .

Need to know:
pH, Total Alk, Calcium(not as important w/ vinyl, Free Chlorine, Total Chlorine, CYA)

Oh and grab a copy of the bleach calculator if you don't have it already, it's a handy little computer program that will tell you how much bleach you need to add to raise your chlorine levels a certain amount. It also works for the other chemicals too!!! Here's the link provided by forum member mwsmith2:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~mwsmith2/BleachCalc262.exe

Hope that helps a little at least,

-SJ

[aylad]

Heidi,

Have you gotten your pump/filter working yet? Get it working, use a drop-based test kit, and test for Cl, pH, Alk, CYA, and Ca (calcium only if you have a plaster/concrete pool, don't worry about it if it's vinyl). Post those numbers, and we can help you go from there.

Janet

[littleHeidi]

Yes, we turned the pump on for a bit yesterday. (Didn't see much sense in leaving it on until we get the bleach). I will test tomorrow and post the results here. Thanks to both of you! (And it's good to see you again Janet!)

[littleHeidi]

Well the only test I was able to get this morning was the ph. It was 8.0. There wasn't ANY chlorine in it. My husband put 1 gallon jug and 4 3-quart jugs of bleach while I was at the gym. (MEN!!!) On the positive side, the water is now a light green. Still cloudy. Do I just let the bleach circulate for another day or so until it clears up?

[Watermom]

Adding 4 gallons of bleach will raise the cl in your pool by about 11ppm. So, adding the amount your husband did was OK. Actually, you need to test 3x a day and each time add enough bleach to shock your pool back up to around 12ppm. When we know your cya reading (which we need to) we can better advise as to whether this is high enough of a chlorine reading to kill the algae. Keep your pump running 24/7 while you are fighting the algae.

The other thing I can advise you at this point is to try and bring your ph down to around 7.4 or so. Add a pint of muriatic acid slowly in front of a return jet. Be careful not to inhale the fumes or splash any on yourself or the pool liner. After several hours, retest the ph and redose as needed to get the ph down to the target. Better to add small doses of acid and get there gradually rather than try to hit it with one dose.

We really need to know those other numbers. Please post them as soon as you can. Then somebody here can help you further. Hope this helps.

Watermom

[littleHeidi]

Okay, I just got back from the "pool store". (And laughed all the way out. She tried selling me Calcium Hardness again for my VINYL pool. And when I questioned her about it she said "you still need it because it acts as a barrier for the machinery". WHATEVER!!!) Anyway, here's the results:

FC .1
TC .4
CC .3
pH 8.2
CYA 9
ALK 55 (adjusted alk was the same)


I added one more gallon of Clorox (all I had left until tomorrow) and put 2 tablets in the skimmer. (May as well used the darn things up since I wasted the money on a WHOLE bucket full of it!!) I also ordered some more stabilizer solution so I can test the CYA myself again.

I have a question. The sheet said my temp. was 85 but there's NO way!! It feels more like 55 or so to me. I know the car ride there must have altered it in the 10 minutes it took to get there. Would it also affect the other results any?

[littleHeidi]

One more thing, she didn't even say anything at all about the algae. Shouldn't she have been able to tell from the water that it had algae in it?

[SJohnson]

It'll be fine to use the tablets as you need to raise your cya level anyway, needs to be 30-50ppm. Your pH needs to come down to about 7.4-7.6 and the tablets will help that too, so I'd stick with the tablets and shocking with bleach, but don't pour the bleach anywhere near the tablets . . . The important thing here is just making sure you maintain chlorine at about 12 ppm, this may require testing the water everyday or maybe even twice a day. Add the bleach at night, test in the morning, get it back up to 12 ppm, then test later in the day and add enough to get back up to 12 ppm, repeat until the algae is gone or dead. Also bringing your Total Alkalinity level to around 100 - 120 will help keep your pH level a little more stable. You really need a titration or DPD-FAS test kit for testing higher levels of chlorine. That would make this process a whole lot easier for you. What are you testing with now? The pool store? I don't see how your FC could be .1 when you just added 4 gallons of bleach yesterday, is the pool getting full sun all day or something? . . .Hope this is helping . . .

SJohnson

[littleHeidi]

Yes, apparently it received quite a bit of sun that decreased it so much. I put the bleach in at the deep end jet away from the skimmer. I'm going tomorrow to get more bleach. How many jugs do you think I should buy? I recall last year a guy telling how to test the higher levels but I can't recall HOW he did it. Something about multiplying something by 10? I so hate that all the other data was destroyed. (Poor Ben!!) Maybe he'll read this and post the info again. I think it was pouring two of the tubes of test water into a glass and adding the drops or something. Janet may remember, she's quite the genius! So, should I deal with the alkalinity at the same time I'm trying to deal with the algae? I pulled up the calculator and according to it, I need to add 16.9 POUNDS of Borax??? Is that right? That'd be a little less than three boxes, correct?
Right now I only have the AquaChem test. It has seemed pretty darn accuarate so far. I only went to the pool store today because I was out of Stabilizer agent and needed that result. (I ordered some- for free!- early this morning and will receive it next week.)

[mwsmith2]

You are using the borax calc for the wrong purpouse. It's not for pH. Please read the borax calc page closely.

Michael

[JohnT]

It's the algae that is consuming the chlorine. When you want to test high chlorine with a kit not designed for it, just add 3 parts distilled water to one part pool water, mix and test. Multiply your result by four.

[littleHeidi]

You are using the borax calc for the wrong purpouse. It's not for pH. Please read the borax calc page closely.

Michael


Huh? I was testing how much I would have to add to raise the alkalinity, not the pH. I'm not worried about the pH right now. I just pulled the calculator up again and noticed the borax one. Didn't see it before because I was looking only for Alk and Cl. I read that it is only for controlling algae in the future. HOW would you know when to use that calculator? I guess I just don't "get" that one.


My bad, I got borax mixed up with baking soda again. If I understand correctly, borax raises JUST your pH while baking soda raises your alk AND pH. Correct?

[littleHeidi]

It's the algae that is consuming the chlorine. When you want to test high chlorine with a kit not designed for it, just add 3 parts distilled water to one part pool water, mix and test. Multiply your result by four.


THAT'S right!! Thank you so much. I couldn't remember exactly what the details were. I only have well water, will that work? Don't really have to worry about it at the moment because the cl isn't registering at all yet. But thank you for posting the instructions!!:)

[waterbear]

Huh? I was testing how much I would have to add to raise the alkalinity, not the pH. I'm not worried about the pH right now. Out of curiousity, where is the borax calc page?
:eek:Borax will not raise your carbonate alkalinity.:eek: For that you need baking soda! Borax will raise pH. The borax calc page is to calulate how much borax will provide 50 ppm which is supposed to act as an algae preventative. Unless your pool water is VERY acidic, that much borax all at once will probably drive your pH up to about 8.0 which is where the borate buffer system tends to stabilize.

[waterbear]

It's the algae that is consuming the chlorine. When you want to test high chlorine with a kit not designed for it, just add 3 parts distilled water to one part pool water, mix and test. Multiply your result by four.Just be aware that you will lose accuracy in the process so consider those results more of a "ballpark figure".

[littleHeidi]

Just be aware that you will lose accuracy in the process so consider those results more of a "ballpark figure".


Gotcha!;) I will keep that in mind. I'm making a notebook JUST for the pool stuff this year. On the inside of the front and back covers I have the "menus" for raising/lowering the various chemicals for the pool.

[littleHeidi]

Soooooo, do I take care of the Alk tomorrow too and then put the bleach in tomorrow night? Will it hurt to wait that long to add the bleach? :confused:

[aylad]

In order to kill the algae, you're going to have to raise your Cl to 10-12, and keep it there--if you let it yo-yo up and down, you're just going to have a harder time killing it. You need to test in the evening, add whatever amount of bleach is necessary to bring your Cl up to 12, test again in the morning and add whatever you need to bring it back up, and (if possible) test and add again in the afternoons. Do this until the algae dies and turns gray. YOu also need to make sure that your pump is running and that you're backwashing as necessary during the process. Do not add any Borax to your pool, your pH is too high already, but you can go ahead and add the baking soda to raise your T/A.
Good to see you too! :)
Janet

[littleHeidi]

In order to kill the algae, you're going to have to raise your Cl to 10-12, and keep it there--if you let it yo-yo up and down, you're just going to have a harder time killing it. You need to test in the evening, add whatever amount of bleach is necessary to bring your Cl up to 12, test again in the morning and add whatever you need to bring it back up, and (if possible) test and add again in the afternoons. Do this until the algae dies and turns gray. YOu also need to make sure that your pump is running and that you're backwashing as necessary during the process. Do not add any Borax to your pool, your pH is too high already, but you can go ahead and add the baking soda to raise your T/A.
Good to see you too! :)
Janet


If I add baking soda, won't that also raise the pH? Or am I thinking of it backwards again and BORAX does that? I am backwashing and the pump has been on nonstop since yesterday. I'm out of bleach today but I'm going to get some first thing in the morning. How many jugs of bleach and boxes of baking soda do you suggest I buy? If I'm using the alkalinity option in the calculator correctly, it says I need to add 18 pounds to get up to 115 ppm. That sounds like an AWFUL lot!!

[waterbear]

If I add baking soda, won't that also raise the pH? Or am I thinking of it backwards again and BORAX does that? I am backwashing and the pump has been on nonstop since yesterday. I'm out of bleach today but I'm going to get some first thing in the morning. How many jugs of bleach and boxes of baking soda do you suggest I buy? If I'm using the alkalinity option in the calculator correctly, it says I need to add 18 pounds to get up to 115 ppm. That sounds like an AWFUL lot!!
you previusly posted that your ALK was 55 ppm. if it is still the same the directions on the Arm and Hammer baking soda box say you need to add 6 lbs per 10000 gal to get your ALK to the proper range. How big is your pool and what is your current ALk reading?

[littleHeidi]

22,000 gal IG Alk 55. I just added 8 lbs. of Baking Soda and 2 gallons of bleach. Will test in 2 hours or so and post back IF there's any change. Water is still green but most of it settled in the bottom. Too cloudy to see TO the bottom but I can make up where it starts to slope down. (Lighter shaded area than the dark green areas.) I also brushed it down again. Now I guess I just have to keep the Cl at 3 until the water clears up and vacuum out the algae. Do I have this correct so far?

[waterbear]

don't rush the Alk. wait 24 hours and then retest!. You are probably in the ballpark of where you need to be right now...What is the target alkalinity you are shooting for?
For vinyl 80-100 is fine.
IF the pool is green you need to get the Cl up to about 15 ppm and keep it there until it holds. test that every couple of hours

[littleHeidi]

don't rush the Alk. wait 24 hours and then retest!. You are probably in the ballpark of where you need to be right now...What is the target alkalinity you are shooting for?
For vinyl 80-100 is fine.
IF the pool is green you need to get the Cl up to about 15 ppm and keep it there until it holds. test that every couple of hours


I already added the baking soda per Janet's instructions. She's never let me down yet. I only added half of what the calculator told me to, just in case. I thought the target alk was 120 because of the post rom our dear Ben on lowering alk.



22,000 vinyl inground Greensboro, NC

[waterbear]

I already added the baking soda per Janet's instructions. She's never let me down yet. I only added half of what the calculator told me to, just in case. I thought the target alk was 120 because of the post rom our dear Ben on lowering alk.



22,000 vinyl inground Greensboro, NC
that was right on the money!. I think you will find that if you give it 24 hours and retest you will be in the ballpark like I said before:)

[littleHeidi]

Yay! I think I'm getting the hang of this. I hate that I almost had a handle on it last year and now have forgotten it all. Isn't there a chart somewhere on what the different chems. do? for example:

Borax- raises alk along with pH
Bak Soda- raises JUST the pH
Muriatic Acid- lowers alk and pH etc, etc. Did I get that right?

[waterbear]

Check out the sister website http://www.poolsolutions.com
Lots of info on there. read everthing on it that you can access!:)

[littleHeidi]

When I got up this morning the pool looked like it had quite a few patches of light foam. I emptied the skimmer basket and backwashed. The water's still too cloudy to see to the bottom. (How long will it take until THAT clears up?) I tested the cl and it's FINALLY high enough to kill of the algae!!! The pH is still a little high too but I'm guessing that's because of the bleach I put in last night. My alk is now at 110!!! YAY!!!! Thankfully, it's supposed to be cloudy today so I don't have to worry too much about the sun eating up all my cl while I'm gone. As soon as we get back, I"m going to test again to see if I need my bleach and keep an eye on the pH. Thanks so much to all of you for helping me!

[littleHeidi]

I've been adding bleach like a fiend when it needs it to keep it at 3. The water is still light green and cloudy. How many more days should I keep this up until it finally clears? Or does that mean there's another problem I should be dealing with? (ie should I add clarifier at this point?)

[waterbear]

if you have algae you need to bring you FC levels up to shock level. Try about 12-15 ppm (I noticed that your CYA was 9 when you posted your numbers. I find that suspect becuase most of the CYA tests on the market don't go below 20 ppm and test strips are not accurate!) and keep it there until the green is gone. You shouldn't need to add anything else at this point other than possibly bringing your pH down if it is still up at 8.2. It should be around 7.4 to 7.6 right now to help kill that algae. Use muriatic acid or pH decreaser (dry acid) to bring it down!
It would be very helpful if you would retest your water and post:
FC (Free Chlorine)
TC (Total Chlorine)
pH
ALK
CH (if applicable)
CYA (stabilizer, conditioner, cyanuric acid)
total gallons in your pool
type of pool (plaster, vinyl, fiberglass)
What type of testing is your pool store doing? From the numbers you posted it looks like they are using one of those computerized colormetric type of tests. (CYA reading of 9 is a bit suspect to me)
GET YOURSELF A DROP BASED TEST KIT AND DO YOUR OWN TESTING!
DON'T USE TEST STRIPS!
(Sorry for shouting but it's important!;))
You really need to keep tabs on your water parameters and it's very easy to do. Ben's kit (ps234) is a good value for the money!. There are also good kits from Taylor and other companies, even walmart has a 15 dollar kit that I personally would trust over the numbers your pool store gave you although it will only measure Total chlorine and not Free chlorine. It certainly would be better than nothing until you can get a good test kit.

[littleHeidi]

I AM keep tabs on my water parameters. If you read my first post, you'll see that the only reason I went to the pool store was because I was out of agent for the Stabilizer (CYA) test. (I have some ordered and on the way.) It is the $15 Aqua CHem test from Wal-Mart. (We can't all afford to spend $80 on Ben's test kit, unfortunately.) I tested the pool this morning and added bleach as needed. I just tested it again and here are the results (with what little agent I had left for the CYA.)

pH 7.2
cl 3
alk 110
CYA LOW the dot never disappeared and the tube was full of water.

I'm guessing I'll have to go to the pool store and get something to raise the CYA before this algae will go away? Here's a picture of the shallow end: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/littlecc/?action=view&current=IMG_0012.jpg
and of the stairs: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/littlecc/?action=view&current=Stairs.jpg and if you look at the very first picure posted (Hit next) you can see what it looked like last year.

[Watermom]

I AM keep tabs on my water parameters. If you read my first post, you'll see that the only reason I went to the pool store was because I was out of agent for the Stabilizer (CYA) test. (I have some ordered and on the way.) It is the $15 Aqua CHem test from Wal-Mart. (We can't all afford to spend $80 on Ben's test kit, unfortunately.) I tested the pool this morning and added bleach as needed. I just tested it again and here are the results (with what little agent I had left for the CYA.)

pH 7.2
cl 3
alk 110
CYA LOW the dot never disappeared and the tube was full of water.

I'm guessing I'll have to go to the pool store and get something to raise the CYA before this algae will go away? Here's a picture of the shallow end: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/littlecc/?action=view&current=IMG_0012.jpg
and of the stairs: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/littlecc/?action=view&current=Stairs.jpg and if you look at the very first picure posted (Hit next) you can see what it looked like last year.


Heidi,
I took a look at your pics and yep - it's green alright! I wouldn't even worry about my cya reading right now. Just focus on killing the algae. I know it probably feels like you have added a ton of bleach already, but it's gonna take a whole lot more. Keeping your chlorine reading at 3 is never going to kill the algae. You need to test your water 3 times a day and each time, add enough bleach to raise your chlorine level back up to 10 -12. In a 22,000 gallon pool, each 3 quart bottle of 6% bleach that you add will raise your chlorine level by 2ppm. It is going to take a LOT of bleach, but if you will consistently keep the chlorine level up to 10-12 it will clear. (Remember, if your test kit won't test past 3 or 5, you can dilute your sample and get a higher reading. Take one part pool water and one part distilled water, mix them together and then test as usual. Multiply your result by 2. If that doesn't read high enough, take one part pool water and two parts distilled water and multiply the result by 3, etc.) As Janet said, if you let the chlorine level yo-yo up and down, you'll never kill the algae. Good luck. Keep us posted on how things are going and keep hammering away with bleach! Hope this helps.

Watermom

[JohnT]

I'm guessing I'll have to go to the pool store and get something to raise the CYA before this algae will go away?

No, you need to keep your chlorine higher.

[littleHeidi]

Thanks, Watermom!! I'll try doing that. Yes, it does feel like I've already added a ton of bleach. I think I've spent $25 so far on JUST that. (Hey, better than the $200 the pool store cost me the first year we opened!!) Okay, so back to HellMart for more bleach.

[nater]

LittleHiedi,

My pool looked exactly like yours about 50 days ago...have faith, you're almost there!

I can't tell you how many gallons of bleach I dumped into my pool for about 7 days straight until I could finally tell it was working. Here are some key learnings from this experience:

1). Buy a good Cl test kit, one with the powder method that allows you to test up to 50 ppm. I'd reaaaaaaaly find a way to afford Ben's kit (or a couple of seperate kits from Taylor).
2). Vacuum the dead algae to waste at least every other day. This really helps you see a difference in water clarity (gives you some faith).
3). Keep adding Chlorine to maintain the 12-15 ppm until there's no more green. I would hit Bi-Lo, Family dollar, and Costco all in one day and fill my truck with cases of bleach. (Now I've got my Salt water Chlorinator on line and life is gooooood.)
4). Repeat step 3 :)
5). Print out and re-read the tips on Baking Soda, Borax, Alkalinity, etc until you could recite them from memory.

Once you see the algae war being won, get you pH stabilized. I've got about 50 ppm of Borax in the pool now (added over time) and my pH is very stable....7.2-7.4 day in, day out.

6). Remeber that pool care is easy if you add enough P.O.P. (Pool Owner Patience)

[littleHeidi]

Thanks for the advice. However, I'm afraid to vacuum to waste because I"ll have to add even more water and dump in twice the amount of bleach to keep the level up. I'm doing all I can now to keep it at 12. It looks a little better every day. How often do you think I should be testing the cl and pH?

[nater]

I'm not sure what kind of filter you have, but mine is a Hayward sand filter. My pool volume is a little less than yours too (18,000). I can spend 10-15 minutes vacuuming to waste and only drop the level down about 2-3 inches. That's probably 300 to 800 hundred gallons, but a small percentage of the total volume.

I'd check the Cl at least twice a day (morning/night) and add the bleach you need to maintain the 12 ppm. Once you get things under control, you can test less often.

[Poconos]

This thread is way too long so I'm locking it. Littleheidie, if you want to pursue other specific questions please start a new thread.
Thanks,
Al