Vinyl Liner Floating, Bulging Walls in Inground Pool

[Wapak]

Hello,

It has been a bit since I posted on the forum, but you all have been of great help to me before and now Im back to resource your expertise further!

Three nights ago, my area here in Ohio experienced extremely rare heavy rains, and flooding, upwards of 8" within 3 hours...and it continued off and on the entire evening. All totaled, we received about 12 inches in a span of 24 to 48 hours.

The next morning i noticed my liner bulging from my pools, worse in the shallow end but all along the sides of pool. My pool was completely full, and there also was a puddle of standing water all along my concrete deck. This has never occurred within 12 years of me living here, but I also have never seen this much rain!

My yard is completely saturated and full of standing water. I somewhat understand that this could be ground or surface water causing this with a really high water table, but I am very concerned that I should try and do something to remove the water and pull the liner back into place.

Currently we are still very wet and although the ground water has receeded some, I still have puddles of standing water around my pool, still have the bulging around the entire pool.

I have continued to keep my water level in pool very high, almost to the edge, but about a half inch from top of skimmer. I also have just kept it running, and have continued to add chlorine to keep it clear.

Is there something else i should be doing? or as the ground water table goes down, will this somewhat fix itself and the bulging go down? I can live with some wrinkles but i cant stand to keep seeing the bulges!

Am I doing the right thing here, and are there any suggestions?

Thank you so much for the help!

[FormerBromineUser]

Hello, Wapak. I am sorry for your troubles!!!

We had the same storm and my liner floated too. Wrinkles everywhere: sides and floor. I worked like crazy, but I now have NO wrinkles. Took me a whole day and I am still muscle sore! There is HOPE, but it's work.

While there is still floating (water under the liner) get in the pool and push the wrinkles/bulges towards the edges/sides of the pool. Use your feet (gym shoes can help) to push. A squeegee can help push towards the wall/floor junction. Do the floor first. The squeegee is especially useful with the wall wrinkles by standing on the outside edge and pulling up towards you. Many wall wrinkles can be pushed up by hand from within the pool; work bottom up. Use a clean plunger or suction cups to pull the tough ones out. Avoid creating bigger wrinkles by moving away from them in small increments.

If it is floating significantly less now, pull an edge of the liner away from the coping and put a hose between the walls and the liner to re-add water causing more floating. Weird, I know. Just enough to get enough float so you can push the water to the edges. Once the water receeds, you have to do this to get the wrinkles out. Then? Repeat the above process.

I hope by buldging you just meant big bubbles and not a structural bulge.

I will edit the above after it posts, but want to get a response out ASAP. Look at the thread and not the email to get my complete answer. Time is of the essence. Once wrinkles get larger with a lot of liner in them, they are tough to budge.

See also: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/6588-A-Solution-for-Big-Wrinkles

[Wapak]

Thanks for the detailed response! Yes, it is only liner bulges,nothing structural that i can see. And fortunately it appears the liner is somewhat staying place...the bottom corners are all still where they should be, just the liner bulging away from the walls

Before you attempted to push out the wrinkles, did the ground water receed eventually naturally out from behind your liner or did you have to pump that out?

The water has been receeding some, but its still rained everyday so my bulges continue to stay. Everything is holding in place as far as the coping in the liner track and the steps.

I tried earlier gently and easily pushing on the bulges from the floor to the top w my pool broom, but it only moved the water towards the bottom or down the wall.

I also have some photos of my problem but im not sure how to add them here.

Thanks again!

[FormerBromineUser]

I did not pump water out from behind my liner. There was only enough behind it to lift the liner up slightly.

Try to upload photos to photobucket and then link here with the add photo icon.

A brush won't have the same pushing power as your hands or a squeegee. There is a type of rubber squeegee that has curved edges that you can attach to a pole. I also have a rubber pool "brush" that has a squeegie on the opposite end, but those are hard to find.

If the water is just sinking back down the wall when you push it, you might try pulling the coping out a tad and see if you can push the water out?

See if you can load those pics.

[Wapak]

http:// http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o573/richldorsett/20150619_140548_zps45czpmgf.jpg (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/richldorsett/media/20150619_140548_zps45czpmgf.jpg.html)

http:// http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o573/richldorsett/20150619_081053_zps43jbcugz.jpg (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/richldorsett/media/20150619_081053_zps43jbcugz.jpg.html)

http:// http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o573/richldorsett/20150619_081121_zpstv15u81c.jpg (http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/richldorsett/media/20150619_081121_zpstv15u81c.jpg.html)

Dont know if these pics will show ok...i am new to photobucket!

Thanks for your help!

[FormerBromineUser]

Did you use the add link icon? You paste the URL in there. I was able to see them though on the email notification direct to photobucket, but I can't enlarge them, and no one else would be able to either.

You have no wrinkles on the bottom?

Have the sidewalls shifted laterally? Hard to tell with the small pics.

Those ARE bulges! That's a lot of water. I do think you will need to pull a small section of coping out to release some of the water before it gets under the bottom.

[Wapak]

http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/richldorsett/media/20150619_081121_zpstv15u81c.jpg.html?o=0

http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/richldorsett/media/20150619_081053_zps43jbcugz.jpg.html?o=1

http://http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/richldorsett/media/20150619_081053_zps43jbcugz.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2 (//http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/richldorsett/media/20150619_081053_zps43jbcugz.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2")

Lets see if this works...I was using the add image icon, this time i am using the add link icon...hope the pics will now display properly, thanks!

[FormerBromineUser]

Well, now people other than me can see them too by following those links.

Are those bulges still filled with water? I think you will need to pull the coping out above one and see if you can push the water up and out.

Are there any wrinkles on the bottom?

[Wapak]

I have had some of the liner floating up on specifically on the shallow end bottom, just like a small linear bulge here and there. and some of these bulges have appeared on my side slopes to the deep end, but as I try to push the 'bubbles' they just move to a different location when i go over with the pool broom,

Now in my deep end, at the very bottom near the drain, i have always had a couple small wrinkles that appeared after a winter bout 4 years ago. but they have never been much of an issue and are barely noticeable once pool is opened.

If the liners have moved some, they have not affected the position of the bottom corners, the corners, even under my return jets seem to still be staying in place.

I have not messed with it much, I attempted to think the first day, if I eased the pool broom over from top to bottom i may push the water back to the ground surrounding pool, but that seemed to only move the water to different location so all i have done is just tried to keep my pool full so that the weight of the water would help keep as much as i could in place.

I will try to un attached the liner in a small spot and try to push some out the top as soon as it stops raining!!! yes raining again today...

thanks again,

[FormerBromineUser]

Well, update when you can. In the meantime, I would do everything you can to keep water from getting under the bottom, so I wouldn't push down. Sides are much easier to fix!

[Wapak]

You bet. Thank you so much for your help, I will update here with any progress!

[JimK]

We've had our liner float/bulge a couple times due to big rain events. Fortunately we didn't end up with any wrinkles; the liner settled back into place as the surrounding ground water receded.

Formerbromineuser gave some great suggestions for dealing with wrinkles.

I can only suggest to do your best to guide the liner back into place as the groundwater recedes (hopefully soon).

[FormerBromineUser]

The more I think about it, the more I am thinking that most of the water got behind the liner through the coping and not primarily from groundwater. I am thinking that because you have very few bottom issues.

Do you think your water level got above the coping liner seam during the storm?

If so, I am thinking that as soon as the rain slows down a bit, you need to reduce the amount of water behind the walls before it gets under the bottom.

Leave a bit in so you can still shift the liner to get it back in place. Maybe two people working. One inside pushing/lifting up, and one outside slowly siphoning (or even adding if you need more shift).

[Wapak]

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o573/richldorsett/20150619_205427_zpslip1s601.jpg

I have some good news!

I mentioned in my earlier post, i had a standing puddle of water surrounding my concrete deck. My pool is surrounded with a top layer of river rock over hard soil. It was my thinking that if i could possibly eliminate some of that surface water it would help.

So, as soon as it stopped raining, which luckily we did not get much today, i took my pool vacuum hose, hooked it up to my wall skimmer, and set the end down into a little makeshift ditch I had made in the rocks. The ditch immediately filled up with water and stuck the end in it. I set my pump on half and half, and kept on filter; half the water was coming from my deep end and the other half from this ditch in the rocks.

it was my thinking that I could try to just transfer the water from outside of my liner to inside my liner at a slow pace by just drawing the water to this side of my concrete deck that seems to hold alot of water. Without removing my liner at all.

I didnt expect the results i got! COMPLETE FIX WITHIN 3 HOURS! I just let the hose continue to draw water and it kept pouring into the hole, it seems to have drawn and transfered all the water outside my liner, to inside equalizing the pressure. Once it was dry ditch drawing no water i stopped.

While it was doing this, i did as you mentioned, and by hand kept pushing wrinkles out slowly from bottom to top.

It surprised me that this worked, but it did-I put a picture on here of how i dug my ditch in the rocks (was barely 4 inches deep) and then laid the end of the hose in the water. the water that was drawing was amazingly clear, so like i said i went ahead and had it running through my skimmer then filter.

The end result after the hose was no longer drawing any water was just three little tiny wrinkles, but they really seem to still be small bubbles in two of my corners, bout 3 inches long--i need to work those out, but unbelievable that my walls and floor are back to ok and normal-NO BULGES!

I will keep you posted if this does not hold, but thankfully we are expected to have somewhat dry weather the next couple days.

thank you all for your help so far, I appreciate it!

[JimK]

Sweet! :)

[FormerBromineUser]

That's super!!! I have read your post several times and I am not understanding something.

You were siphoning off water into your ditch, but where were you pulling the water from? Did you pop the liner out of the coping? It sounds like you had it in your skimmer? What am I not getting?

[JimK]

That's super!!! I have read your post several times and I am not understanding something.

You were siphoning off water into your ditch, but where were you pulling the water from? Did you pop the liner out of the coping? It sounds like you had it in your skimmer? What am I not getting?

I believe Wapak was pulling water out of the "ditch" and putting it in the pool.

[Wapak]

Basically, i shovelled out a small area in the rocks which surround my concrete pool deck just with my hands, i say ditch but it was more likr a small hole. Water pooled immediately in this, i stuck the end of vacuum hose in the small gathering of water. Well it sucked water for about three hours, and my liner while this was working immediately began to go back to proper place. As i noticed this, i bagan to work any wrinkles i saw out with ny hands from bottom to top of liner walls.

The water i was vacuuming from this small ditch/hole i actualky ran thru filter and i was putting into the pool, and true to physics, my pool water did not rise. I think it simply transfered the water that was behind the liner to the pool. This seems to have increased the pressure back to pool water which then pushed the liner back to its position.

I did not remove the liner at all from its track but this seemed to transfer all the water that was behind my liner, to the pool.

[FormerBromineUser]

I think I understand now. Good job!!!! Very impressive solution! i am so glad that the liner went back into the right places. I was concerned cause it looked like there might be some lateral shifting.

How long were you in the pool today?

Is there enough give behind the liner to remove the last small spots?

Maybe your next job is to dig in some drain tile from your "ditch" area to somewhere lower???

[Wapak]

Sorry for all the spelling errors in my previous post...my phone is not the best to type on but i hope that explained what i did a little better!

The photo shows the end of my vacuum hose with no vacuum head attached, laying in the puddle of water which formed in the small hole/ditch i dug with my hands in the river rock surrounding my concrete deck. the other end of hose was attached into my skimmer!

I worked on easily working the liner and wrinkles for about 2-3 hrs while the filter pumped ...i stopped when it got darker and the hose was no longer drawing water from my hole/ditch.

Yep i felt the small ones yet to work out and as of right now they werent a hard type crease more like a bubble. Im going to get those out in am. They are located in the two corners of my return jets.

A drain tile is definetly something i will do in future. I know the rain we had was really rare but i sure would like to avoid this in the future!

[FormerBromineUser]

No worries about the typos! And no worries about your explanation either. Jim understood you; it was just me. It's one of the reasons I asked Jim to take a peek at your thread. I'm not a real handy kinda gal so my brain doesn't always do mechanics easily... I aced all my chemistry and physics classes, but always struggled in lab. One of my degrees is in Geology, and the course I found most difficult was Geological Engineering. I am babbling now....

Let us know how it goes in the morning. They are forecasting 2 more weeks of rain here in the Chicago area. Lordy!

[Wapak]

Well im happy to report, i checked the pool this am expecting the need to work the few remaining small wrinkles i had left up in the shallow area, and they were already gone. So, as of right now, at this point, the liner is wrinkle free and had no movement or shift as near as i can tell!

I am inclined to believe that it was water running inward, towards and behind my liner coping that caused this, not a rise in the ground water as you said.

The walls bulged out huge, but it never affected my bottom, so I do think its reasonable to assume the water headed downward, from a tremendous amount of rain, overfilling the area surrounding my pool, not up from a rise in the ground water table. I think by keeping my pool as full as i could and still operate through this helped to keep as much pressure in the bottom to stop the water from continuing further down behind the liner.

I must tell you it was just a fluke idea I had regarding the siphoning of surface water showing around my pool in the rocks using my vac hose...I sure didnt expect it to fix this, but once i thought about it, it made sense that it did: the water basically was taken out from behind the liner the same way as it probably made its way there...

Anyways, thank you so much for your advice and responses, i certainly appreciate it, and I really, really hope things go great with your own pools this season!

FYI-finally a sunny day here in West Central OHIO!

[FormerBromineUser]

Great job!!!! I'm so happy for you! Knowing that there was little to no wrinkling on the bottom was the key! Woot!!!