Benchmarking a possibly-expired test kit

[Whetstone613]

I have a test kit that I'm told to replace after a year, and from the chlorine test results, that seems like a something I might need to do. The cost is a bit much, though, especially right now. Is there a way to benchmark the kit w/household products to be sure?

[FormerBromineUser]

To answer your question, maybe. It depends.
Which test kit are you talking about? Give as much I do as you can.
Who told you to replace it?

[Whetstone613]

The K-1004. The instructions that came with say the reagents should be replaced after a year.

[FormerBromineUser]

Ugh. That kit has a history of short longevity; it will last two seasons if you stored it inside in a dark area over the winter. That's said with no guarantees.

It is also missing several key tests: the FAS-DPD test for FC/CC and the CYA test.

I am sorry to tell you that to manage your pool properly, even with fresh reagents for the 1004, that kit is just not enough.

I suggest the 2006C, but it is hard to get in Canada. Some people have friends in the states who will buy it and then ship it north.... Right now it is on Amazon for $55-60 usd in the USA. Check your Canada Amazon.

I am sorry I don't have better news.

[Whetstone613]

Ugh. That kit has a history of short longevity; it will last two seasons if you stored it inside in a dark area over the winter. That's said with no guarantees.
Well, I did have it in the garage during the winter, which didn't see a lot of light (and in its case). So are you saying it's probably still working and my chlorine is as low as it says?


It is also missing several key tests: the FAS-DPD test for FC/CC and the CYA test.
I think my kit tests for FC/CC and how important is the CYA test above that of the pH test?


I suggest the 2006C, but it is hard to get in Canada. Some people have friends in the states who will buy it and then ship it north.... Right now it is on Amazon for $55-60 usd in the USA. Check your Canada Amazon.
Since I'm trying to save 50CAD by avoiding buying a new K-1004, that's not on the table right now, unless it lasts 10 years or something.

[FormerBromineUser]

Hi. A few comments:

The kit MAY be good still. CarlD came up with this way to test the strength of his bleach. If you know your bleach is fresh (check the code on the bottle. Code will read something like 15173. That would be the 173rd day of 2015), You could try a sort of reverse of his test. I quote, "So, if you pour 1.88ml of bleach/liquid shock/liquid chlorine into 5 gallons of fresh water, you should get the same FC reading as if you dump 1 gallon into 10,000 gallons of water." You could give that a try. Hope that makes sense.

Secondly, your FC/CC test is very different than a FAS-DPD. The FAS-DPD can test up to 50ppm FC. Yours only goes to 5ppm.

A CYA test is critical to pool management. You must know the CYA level of your water in order to determine the amount of FC necessary to keep your pool sanitary and algae-free. See: http://poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html

Another option is to go get a cheap OTO kit (not refills, you need the kit with the comparator tube). Then you will be able to test FC/CC with fresh reagents although still only to 5ppm. You can use this to at least help go a bit higher: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tq13B9mOkQ8/U0b_GIcHvjI/AAAAAAAAG04/sx8Yadz6s6E/s389/OTO-rev%252001.jpg

Finally, I would strongly encourage you to save up for the K-2006C.

Good luck.

[Whetstone613]

The kit MAY be good still. CarlD came up with this way to test the strength of his bleach. If you know your bleach is fresh (check the code on the bottle. Code will read something like 15173. That would be the 173rd day of 2015), You could try a sort of reverse of his test. I quote, "So, if you
I found a number printed on the side saying "14 302 19:10 A4 K1", which I guess means it was from last October (in the early evening).


pour 1.88ml of bleach/liquid shock/liquid chlorine into 5 gallons of fresh water, you should get the same FC reading as if you dump 1 gallon into 10,000 gallons of water." You could give that a try. Hope that makes sense.
Wow, 5 gallons, eh? Can those figures be scaled? Does this mean if I got an eye dropper and added 0.5mL of bleach to 1.33 gallons of fresh water, that I could perform the same test?
Also, what counts as "fresh water"? My water comes from a well and through a softener.
What about the reagents for pH and alkalinity? How viable do you think they are? My pool was tested at 7.8pH and moderate alkalinity.


Secondly, your FC/CC test is very different than a FAS-DPD. The FAS-DPD can test up to 50ppm FC. Yours only goes to 5ppm.

A CYA test is critical to pool management. You must know the CYA level of your water in order to determine the amount of FC necessary to keep your pool sanitary and algae-free. See: http://poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html

Another option is to go get a cheap OTO kit (not refills, you need the kit with the comparator tube). Then you will be able to test FC/CC with fresh reagents although still only to 5ppm. You can use this to at least help go a bit higher: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tq13B9mOkQ8/U0b_GIcHvjI/AAAAAAAAG04/sx8Yadz6s6E/s389/OTO-rev%252001.jpg

Finally, I would strongly encourage you to save up for the K-2006C.

Thing about that is, last summer my pool was highly algae-free, so since I'm trying to save money, I'm going w/the if-it-ain't-broke philosophy. Unless there's a way to make the K-2006C last several years, it'll have to wait.

[FormerBromineUser]

..

[Whetstone613]

I think you had your autocorrect set to morse code or ancient Babylonian or something :D

[FormerBromineUser]

Hahaha!!! Sorry about that!

I am hoping that CarlD will jump in here, as it's his method, but your math is certainly correct. Fresh water would be water without chlorine. (Some municipalities add FC and/or CC to their water.) I would think that your well-water would be fine for testing although I would avoid the softener because of the NaCl (Sodium chloride....)

According to what I have read on the Taylor site, the pH and alkalinity reagents should be good for quite a while if you've kept them cool and dark. (I said before over the winter, but that also goes for the swim season too.) Here's Taylor's guide to checking your chemicals and although you don't have many of these reagents, others reading this might: http://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=2

A K2006 WILL last several years, 10 might be stretching it, although I have heard people who say they've done it. The thing that I question with those claims is that sooner or later you are going to use up a bottle and have to order more. That just resets part of the clock..... Mine is several years old and I have replaced these reagents due only to use, not "going bad": FAS-DPD powder (0870), titrating reagent (0871), pH indicator (0004), and CYA reagent (0013). The rest are still going strong!

[Whetstone613]

Here's my story:
I took 0.25mL of bleach, from what I mentioned is labelled "14 302 19:10 A4 K1", from an eye dropper, added it to 2.5L of water from my dehumidifier and mixed it thoroughly. Then when I tested it, the FC came to 1ppm. The TC was a little hard to tell, because it was a different colour, but it was as least as dark as 3ppm. So what does that mean?

[FormerBromineUser]

...CarlD..: (and) I quote, "So, if you pour 1.88ml of bleach/liquid shock/liquid chlorine into 5 gallons of fresh water, you should get the same FC reading as if you dump 1 gallon into 10,000 gallons of water." .

Well, again I was hoping Carl would chime in... but it sounds to me like you reagent is too old.

Are you anywhere near a border to the US to get a kit? If not, get an OTO or HTH 6-way test kit.

How is your pool looking? Does it feel slimy at all?

[Whetstone613]

Well, w/a roof antenna, I can get CBS and PBS, but not ABC. The short answer though is: not close enough.

The pool appears to be in very good shape. Thing about chlorine is the tests last season didn't cause me to do anything different--it seemed that the chlorine was always where I wanted it. However, I did have minor problems w/alkalinity and pH.

Is there somewhere I can go to just get individual reagents? I don't even think I use some of them, and if some are still good, then I can just replace the bad ones (which will then beg the question: how do I know what's bad?). I did find a place that doesn't seem to want to ship to Canada :(

[FormerBromineUser]

As for knowing which are bad, did you check the link I gave you from Taylor?
You might want to call some pool stores around you and see if they carry them. Here in the US, it's so easy...

[Whetstone613]

Somehow I missed the Taylor link. As for the reagents that were specifically discussed: they all seem to be in good condition. However, half the reagents I have weren't discussed. One of them was R-0001 and you said you think my chlorine-testing reagents were expired.
I called my local pool store and they say they have everything I need, but I wonder if they have the exact same thing. Some of these reagents have very picky sounding names like "R-0007 THIOSOLFATE N/10". Are they as picky as they sound?

[FormerBromineUser]

Yes, some reagents can be of different concentrations. Find out exactly what the pool store has, and then do some research on Taylor's site to see if they say what the equivalents are. You really can't mix and match some of them as they are calibrated to work at the correct strengths.

Here is the original link I gave you on checking reagents: http://www.taylortechnologies.com/Ch...SP?ContentID=2

This might help. It's a search for reagents: http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_reagents_search.asp

[Whetstone613]

Actually, the link you gave me the first time worked. This time it just abbreviated it or something (that autocorrect acting up again?)
Ok, I just went to look at the specs for R-0007 and holy frijoles... it gave me


A = .75 oz (22 mL), A-24 = .75 oz (24 pack), A144 = .75 oz (144 pack), B = 2 oz (60 mL, wide-mouth),
C = 2 oz (60 mL), C-12 = 2 oz (12 pack), D = 4 oz, DD = 8 oz, DB = dropper bottle, E = 16 oz, F = 32 oz,
F4 = 32 oz (4 pack), G = gal, G4 = gal (4 pack), H = 25 g, I = 10 g, II = 50 g, J = .25 lb, K = 1 lb,
Z = 1,000 pack, Z-10 = 10,000 pack, Z-50 = 50,000 pack
Is this what I asked for from the pool store guy?

[FormerBromineUser]

Is your current bottle labelled R-0007? If so, then those are just different quantities of the same concentration. You want A, C, or D; 0.75oz, 2oz, and 4oz respectively.
The cost goes down as the quantity goes up, just like most product packaging. It boils down to what the pool store carries as Taylor is tough to get in Canada. Make sure they have TAYLOR R-0007.

[Whetstone613]

Yes, one of them is "R-0007 THIOSOLFATE N/10". Since but I don't usually use half of a bottle in one season, I might as well get the smallest. As for the concentration: if it's Taylor, it's the right concentration and if it isn't, it's anybody's guess?

[FormerBromineUser]

You are good if they have TAYLOR R-0007. If they are Taylor reagents and the numbers match, you are good. The letters after R-0007A or R-0007C are just the size designation.

[Whetstone613]

I called Taylor to ask how I know if their reagents are expired, and by using the lot numbers, they were just able to tell me what it is due to expire. Fortunately, everything I have here is good for another season, except the R-0002. I called one local pool store, and they have some Taylor there, but because they don't sell the small bottles, it's more than I want to pay for a single reagent. The thing is, according to http://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=2 it should be taking on colour to be expired, and the stuff is still clear. So I'm not totally sure what to think.

[CarlD]

I guess I don't see what the problem is with testing.

You can add 1ml of your LC to 10 liters of tap water (5 x 2 liter soda bottles into a 5 gallon bucket) and it will give you the concentration.

The idea is that if you do the math, adding 1 gallon of LC to 10,000 gallons of water (or 1 liter of LC to 10,000 liters) the water's FC will be increased by exactly the concentration of the LC, whether it's regular bleach, ultra or LC (5.25%==>5.25ppm of FC, 6%==>6ppm of FC, 12.5%==> 12.5ppm of FC).
Scaling down to 1 ml of LC to 10,000 ml of water (10 liters) gives the same relationship. And 10 liters is 5 Coke/Pepsi bottles.

Just remember to subtract any FC the tap water has from you calculation.

[Whetstone613]

So I bought another R-0002 and tested the chlorine w/both bottles. They showed the exact same result, so I guess it was a waste of 10$. Fortunately, it was only 10$ (and in CAD). Several other stores wanted the high end of 20$ for that 2oz bottle--nearly the cost of a new kit. 'Really pays to show around!