I am planning on replacing my pump, pretty sure its too big

[leena]

Last yr I was unable to get my pool to filter thru the sand filter at all. We basically kept the pool clean enough to use by using skimmer socks. (those things that fit over the basket in the skimmer).I had to change them out daily. It was a nightmare, the water was clear but never sparkling clean. My pump shoots water thru the return so hard that it hurts to hold your hand there. It sucks water into the skimmer so hard that it has torn the socks before. Wasps would be sucked in and shot back out the return with their bodies parts easily visible. whole abdomens, etc. I put more sand in the filter, even tried the DE powder at one point. Boy that was a nightmare, like to have never got it out of the pool. Anyways, my pump is 10 to 12 yrs old, loud and runs up my electric bill. I have to beat it with a rock sometimes to get it going, otherwise it just hums until it trips the breaker. My husband 4got to unhook it before a freeze this winter so now the "lid" or something is cracked and its shooting out water. Im so ready to get a new pump! (possibly a sand filter too)

SO my question is: What size pump do I need for my pool? Its currently a 1.5hp, 200lb sand filter. pool is 24' round above ground. I see variable speed posted on here a lot.........is that something I should consider?

[Anonymous [GDPR] European in the UK]

Leena,
Your pool is about the same size as mine and your sand filter is 24" or 30" diameter? about the same as mine but your pump is way too big. For excellent filtration you want a slower flow not a fast one. There is no such thing as a high rate sand filter! I don't care what marketing department plaster over the advert there isn't they become high rate strainers and as you have described the debris, skin, insects etc get such a rough ride they break up and return to the pool. All you are doing is paying for a lot of electricity to achieve very little. Bigger pump = worse water. Commercial pools don't try and filter at the speeds domestics do. it's another of the pool industries wrongs.

Take a look at my signature, I run a similar sized pool on a tiny pump. Actually pumping is less than 0.1 hp, around the amount of a lightbulb in electricity per hour. You are using around 30 times more to achieve the same but your water quality relies on skimmer socks. Although I run my pump 24/7 as the electricity bill is so low I can afford to and that means there are no overnight leaves, dirt etc going to the bottom of the pool. The only downside is you have to empty the skimmer more often because they are actually doing what you want them to do, collect surface debris.

I sold my pool cleaning robot, didn't need it anymore and people are familiar with that little dust cloud in front of a manual cleaning head? The one where the water starts off clear but by the time you have finished cleaning there is a slight haziness to the water? That doesn't exist any more, there is no dirt to cause it.

Go tiny on your pump, if you have water features you may need more but if like me you just filter, go tiny.

[SunnyOptimism]

@leena

It sounds to me like you have two separate problems - a bad/dying pump AND a plugged up sand filter. The first problem may not be worth the time and money trying to fix BUT the second one might be. Have you ever deep cleaned the sand filter or changed the media? You say you get no flow from your returns if the pump is switched over to flow through the filter. That's really bad and tells me that your sand filter is basically completely blocked up (perhaps too much debris, or DE , or broken laterals, etc). Also, if your filter is plugged and the pump is trying to push on a blocked line, you can easily destroy and burn up a pump that way.

@mas985 posts here on the PF sometimes but I think is more active over on another pool forum. He is the DIY expert on pumps, hydraulics, etc. Here is a link (http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/830-Hydraulics-101-Have-you-lost-your-head) to an incredible post he wrote on how to properly choose and size pumps and filters for a pool. Read it before you go off to buy a pump as the choices involved depend a lot on your particular situation such that a VS pump may not be the best choice versus a really efficient 2-speed pump.

[Anonymous [GDPR] European in the UK]

Leena,
Can you get the lid off your filter and examine the sand inside?

[leena]

hopefully my husband and I will be able to slow down and examine the sand filter this weekend. What should I look for when I take the top off the sand filter? We had put new sand in it when we first realized it wasn't filtering but that didn't seem to improve anything.
thanks for the link, I def wanna do my research before I buy another pump and I also know I want a smaller one.

[Anonymous [GDPR] European in the UK]

I see Leena, so you have changed the sand already so unlikely it's too clogged up.
So you are running with the multiport valve on recirculate?
What happens when you put the system on backwash?
What is the flow like when it's on filter?
Does the multiport feel as if it's moving ok with the handle?
This problem arose before you changed the sand out?

[SunnyOptimism]

Hi @leena!

@teapot has asked lots of good questions and I just like to follow on with another one. I'm not asking this to sound snarky or rude, I just want to be 100% clear that I understand what you are saying -

When you replaced the sand, did you just add new sand or did you actually fully remove the old sand and thoroughly clean the insides?

I ask only because it is important when you clean out a sand filter to not only replace the filter media (sand) but also to inspect all of the internal pipes and laterals for damage or blockage. During a filter tear-down it is also a good idea to open up the multiport valve (if your sand filter has one, some just have a push-pull valve) and inspect the spider gaskets and other components.

You said you added DE once to the sand filter. Is all of the DE gone now? Did any of your blocked filter problems occur after adding the DE? Again, I'm asking only so that we can be very clear on the history of the filter.

And you're definitely doing the right thing by slowing down and taking time to investigate new pumps! The natural impulse of a pool owner is "just get it fixed right NOW" which can often lead to more trouble. Taking time to understand all the options is definitely the best bet!

Let us know what you come up with as you study different pump options. There's lots of knowledgeable folks here on PF regarding pumps and I'd bet they have some great advice to give.

[kelemvor]

Just something I thought I'd throw out there. You should consider a two-speed pump. High flow is generally desirable when vacuuming. Low flow during normal operations. The electric savings by running a two speed on low can be tremendous. I don't know about Georgia, but in Florida single speed pumps have actually been outlawed due to energy waste.

[leena]

yes we cleaned out the filter when we added the new sand. At that time the laterals seemed ok.
No we haven't inspected the spider thingy, don't know exactly what that is.
The multiport valve turns easily.
When I tried using the DE it immediately shot right back into the pool, never could get it to "clog" my sand so that it would increase filtration. ( If Im understanding the concept properly of why DE is used...?) It took forever to get the DE cleaned out of the pool.
The reason we replaced the sand was because we realized it wasn't filtering properly so that was something we tried. After reading about pumps and filtering, I realized that my pump was too large and possibly forcing water thru the filter so hard and fast it wasn't filtering.
We installed a valve that I can almost completely close to reduce the water flow but it doesn't help the filtering problem. It does however slow down the strong suction at the skimmer enough to where the "socks" can be used. That's the only thing keeping the pool useable is the "socks" are catching just enough to get us by. When it gets really bad I use floc to settle all the debris then gently vacuum the bottom of the pool using the bucket method. Using the pump to vacuum doesn't work bc it pulls the water hard enough to stir up the debris on bottom, making it harder to vacuum.
For a while when I would backwash it was dirty so I felt like it was catching something. Eventually there was nothing when I would backwash, just clear water so I don't feel like the filter is working at all. I read about channeling? .........
I just feel like my filter isn't working properly but I don't know if the too big pump is(was) part of the problem or not. The lid on the pump is now cracked so I cant use it at all. So I for sure have to order a new pump . Its too cold here at night to use the pool anytime soon, so Im not rushing, trying to do my research properly before I order. I def want a pump that is atleast 2 speed so that I have the option of a gentler circulation but also to save electricity.
Im thinking 3/4 HP?
I had intended on getting a variable speed but now that Im looking, Im a little put off at the price.

[leena]

so to inspect the spider thing, I unbolt the top of the filter, then take the multiport valve apart? Im assuming I will see gaskets somewhere? Am I looking for broken or dried out gaskets? Is it gonna be like an O-ring type thing? Oh I also have the k-2006 kit now. Got that well over a yr ago. Gotta figure out how to update....

[leena]

ok so I remembered that I needed to go to edit signature to show that I am now using the k-2006 and not strips anymore. However, I cant remember why I have "hrs" and 'city" in my signature? Also cant remember what PF:10 means...........lol. Cant believe its already been 3 yrs since I registered and started coming here............
.My first 2 summers were spent learning how to balance/control my water using BBB method. Last summer I spent trying to figure out my filtering problem to no avail. I also have a very small leak that I cant find. Since I kept having to add water, I realized my CYA level wasn't a concern so I cheat and use tablets/pucks too for ease. At the end of last summer, I let the water start leaking down so that I could see how far it would leak down to and hopefully pinpoint the leak. But we had so much rain thru the fall, even winter that the pool kept filling back up. Finally during a couple dry weeks it seemed to stop at 27" but it was so cold I couldn't get in there and look closely at the walls. Then it started raining again and the pool filled back up. Hopefully when water is warm enough to get in, I can closely inspect the wall at the 27" mark and maybe find that elusive leak!

[SunnyOptimism]

@leena,

Looking through all you wrote it would seem to me that you've done quite a lot of work on your sand filter to no avail. Here are some of my thoughts/responses -

1. DE Blowing through filter - I would hazard a guess that the DE did not work because your old filter media was probably suffering from deep channeling. That's a condition that only occurs in sand filters whereby old media that isn't cleaned thoroughly develops deep channels throughout the volume of the sand. Think of it like a cracked mud bed that you would see in a dry lake. The DE that you added to the skimmer simply shot right through the deep channels and straight back into your pool. Sand filters should be deep cleaned (that's not the same as backwashing) at least once per year or more frequently if you have heavy debris loads. Deep cleaning is a labor intensive process whereby you stick a garden hose into the bottom of the sand filter and to wash all the "gunk" out of the sand and, as needed, use a long wooden pole to break up chunks of clustered sand being careful not to damage the laterals.

2. Oversized pump - without more detailed knowledge of the make and model of the sand filter, it's hard to know if your pump is properly sized. However, if you think it's oversized, I believe you on that. And it is definitely not good to have an oversized pump and an undersized sand filter or vice versa for that matter.

3. Spider gasket - I don't think your problems are with a spider gasket as that would manifest itself as weird leaks between different settings on the multiport valve, eg, water leaking from the backwash port when valve is set to filter mode, etc. However, it is always a good idea to check the spider gasket when doing filter maintenance to make sure there's no cracks or tears in it. If you take the top of the multiport valve apart, you'll see exactly why it's called a spider gasket (looks kind of like a spider's web).

4. Pool leaks - I'm not an AG pool owner so I don't have much to say for finding leaks. I just hope you can locate it and fix it easily. Makes me wonder if something like red food dye would work as a tracer to see where a leak is? My guess is on a tiny leak it would be hard to do. Since it's an AG pool, can you see tell-tale water stains around the pool that might indicate the location of the leak?

Good luck and keep posting, I'm sure all of us here can help.

[kelemvor]

ok so I remembered that I needed to go to edit signature to show that I am now using the k-2006 and not strips anymore. However, I cant remember why I have "hrs" and 'city" in my signature? Also cant remember what PF:10 means...........lol.

That was a signature scheme that pooldoc is/was using to store info. The idea was that your pertinent info was attached to each post so the mods wouldn't have to ask every time they tried to post something helpful for you. I don't know what the "hrs" field is about, I suspect the number of hours/day you run your pump. "City" is most likely a reference to your fill water source - city water vs well. PF:10 is the "pool factor" used for calculating dosage in your pool. I personally have never used that calculation so I don't know exactly how it goes.

[Anonymous [GDPR] European in the UK]

it is definitely not good to have an oversized pump and an undersized sand filter or vice versa for that matter.


Vice versa is definitely preferable, smaller pump and bigger filter.

At the sort of pressure I imagine Leena's setup to have I doubt good filtration will happen but tricky when you can't see the whole setup.
Any Pictures Leena? what size plumbing etc.

[Skymarc]

I had a similar problem, my valve was 2" but the installer had put a 1.5" pick up pipe in the filter.
Filter would never clear out the water. Since I did this fix my water is crystal clear.

[leena]

we finally got a chance to take apart the sand filter and check the spider gasket. It looked ok. Before we started taking sand out to check the laterals we noticed a crack where the hose goes in. There was a tiny crack there last yr but it barely leaked so we kept using it. I don't think its useable this time, the crack is completely across and much wider. So looks like we will be buying a new sand filter too. Would it be cheaper to get a pump/filter combo? Or is it no different in cost to buy them separate?

[leena]

how do I upload pics here

[leena]

down at the bottom where is says posting permissions.....mine says I may not post attachments. Is there something I need to do to be allowed to post pics?

[leena]

while I am waiting to find out how to post a pic, Here is a combo I found on amazon. Its Hayward and a 2 speed pump. Is this something that would work for me? On high I think the pump is still 1.5hp which I do not feel I need but couldn't find a smaller 2 speed pump/filter combo.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CG4EDW4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=I3NHVZOKQHTCLG

[leena]

Here is another combo, also a 2 speed pump, also a Hayward but with a larger sand filter....21" versus the 18" above. This confuses me as before we talked of sand filters as being 200lbs, etc so not sure why it tell the inches rather than lbs of sand? Im assuming I want my sand filter to be the correct size for my pump or do I go by the size of my pool?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002HHM020/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IG567P89FGH0U&psc=1

[leena]

now here are 2 pumps that are 2 speed and only 1hp so would this be better? Would that mean on low it would only be 1/2hp? One is a Hayward for approx. $275 the other is Blue Wave for approx. $175. IS the Hayward better quality or are they practically the same thing?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00212NNU4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IPBL5VSUIDVO8

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ITPPS6E/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IN8OCP8VM63AB&psc=1

[SunnyOptimism]

Hi @leena, glad to hear back from you! Lots of posts to answer, so here's a synopsis -

Posting Pictures

Use a photo sharing service like Photobucket (http://photobucket.com)or Picasa. Both of those services are free with lots of upload space. Once you upload a photo, it is assigned an IMG link (which looks a lot like an "http://" link). You can then cut & paste that link in any forum thread and the picture will automatically be displayed in your posts. Trying to attach photos using the Pool Forum's vBulletin software is a waste of time. Since this forum runs on a server with limited storage capacity, users just can't be given a lot of storage space or else the forum will crash.

Sand Filters

I am no expert so all I can offer you is this advice - bigger is ALWAYS better when it comes to sand filters. The last thing you want to do is try to run an undersized sand filter with an overpowered pump. Sand filters are describe either by their full sand weight (pounds of sand) or the diameter of the filters "belly" measured in inches. Either way, the bigger the number, the more water flow you get. So your best best bet is to get the largest size sand filter you can reasonably afford. A bigger sand filter always means longer times between cleaning. So if you don't want to backwash a lot, bigger is better.

Pump

Definitely get a 2-speed pump, 1.5HP sounds like it would be more than enough for your pool. The two speed option is desirable because sand filters actually perform better (finer particulate filtration) at lower speeds. So for everyday water circulation you can use the low speed setting and get good energy savings and great filtration. Then, when you need to vacuum or run a robotic cleaner, you can kick it up to high speed for fast vacuuming.

Vendors

Look, Hayward is the biggest name out there. I don't know of anyone who went with Hayward filtration products and hated it. There are other vendors (Pentair, etc) but if you're happy with Hayward, then stick with it.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but I am a DE filter guy so my knowledge on sand filters is limited. You could always call up the Hayward technical support people (I hear they are very helpful) and give them some pool details. They may be able to give you lots of different combinations and options to work with.

[leena]

thanks for the replies!sorry for so many questions at once:/

So if I have a 1.5hp pump, when Im runnin it on low does that make it the equivalent of a 3/4hp while on low?

If so, Im thinking I need to get a 1hp so that when Im running it on low its the equivalent of 1/2.......

[SunnyOptimism]

thanks for the replies!sorry for so many questions at once:/

So if I have a 1.5hp pump, when Im runnin it on low does that make it the equivalent of a 3/4hp while on low?

If so, Im thinking I need to get a 1hp so that when Im running it on low its the equivalent of 1/2.......

It doesn't quite work that way. For a 2-speed pump, the low speed is typically 1750RPM and the high speed is typically 3450RPM. While those numbers are roughly 1/2 one another, that doesn't necessarily equate to a pumps power consumption (horsepower) being half. For example, I have a variable speed pump and a control system that lets me set the RPM value and then reports back how many watts of power the pump is using. When I set the pump RPM's to half the max speed, it does not use half the amount of power at high speed.

[leena]

hmmm, not sure if I understand that for sure but I think from what I've read that I should go with the 2speed 1hp. Ok, I didn't find a combo set with a 2 speed 1 hp so I guess I will be buying my sand filter separate. So from what you said about a bigger sand filter being good, it should be ok to go back with a 200lb filter even though Im dropping down to a smaller pump?

Ok, that being said, is there such a thing as low quality sand filters? if Im getting a Hayward pump should I go ahead I get a Hayward sand filter?

Im sorry I realize that's 3 questions but they are all pertaining to the sand filter so kinda same subject, lol

[leena]

http://s172.photobucket.com/user/leenabug123/media/filter%20crack_zpssoknssji.jpg.html
http://s172.photobucket.com/user/leenabug123/media/pool%20pump_zpsodjmd4oc.jpg.html
http://s172.photobucket.com/user/leenabug123/media/pool%20switch_zpsn6i92py0.jpg.html

[leena]

Well I said I couldnt find a 1hp 2speed combo but here is one:

SD35 SYSTEM 1HP 2 SPEED PUMP PNSD0035DE2160
Pentair sand dollar system. Its a 1hp 2 speed pump but the filter looks really small. 16", 100lbs. It says it will filter 16,800 gallons in 8 hrs and my pool is 12,000 gallons so I guess that would work but it just seems so small compared to everything Ive been looking at. But the name is good(Pentair) and the price is great ($431 for the pump & filter both). Its also a 2 speed.........but that sand filter just looks itty bitty.

I just dont know if I am truly understanding what I need.............?

Am I even in the ball park in the systems I am considering?
If it were you what combination of pump & filter would you use if you were trying to stay less than $700 for both?

[SunnyOptimism]

OK, that's not what I meant by an IMG link. Hard to explain in words, but if you click on any picture in Photobucket you'll see a section off to the side for "sharing". In that area of the screen is a field called "IMG". The text inside that box is the link you copy & paste into a post.

Ok, pumps and filters. There is no hard and fast rule for selecting a pump/filter combo, just some general principles. The main thing you need to size for a pump and filter (and match the filter to the pump) is flow rate (measured in gallons per minute or GPM). So if we want your 12k gallon pool to turn over the water every four hours, then you need a MINIMUM flow rate of 50 GPM. That's the minimum amount of flow through the entire pipe system, pump, filter and returns. Since it looks like your pump/filter pad is closely attached to your above ground pool, then you I would say you want to find the largest 2-speed pump and filter combo that gives you a minimum flow rate of 50GPM. I'd size it a little bigger (1.5 times my need) and look for something that can produce a 75GPM flow rate.

Then, as stated in my previous posts, BIGGER is BETTER for sand filters so get the biggest one you can afford. A 2-speed pump is way more desirable than a single speed pump since your power consumption is dramatically reduced at lower RPM's. And, as I saw in your pictures, you should really consider replumbing everything you can with straight walled PVC and ditch the flex-tube connections. Straight PVC has lower head loss then lots of long flex tube runs.

That's the best advice I can offer. There are other users on the forum way more knowledgeable than me about pumps and filter and I really hope that they will chime in and correct any inadequate advice I might be offering.

[kelemvor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhxvLC8grY

[leena]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w38/leenabug123/pool%20switch_zpsn6i92py0.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/leenabug123/media/pool%20switch_zpsn6i92py0.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w38/leenabug123/pool%20pump_zpsodjmd4oc.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/leenabug123/media/pool%20pump_zpsodjmd4oc.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w38/leenabug123/filter%20crack_zpssoknssji.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/leenabug123/media/filter%20crack_zpssoknssji.jpg.html)

[SunnyOptimism]

@leena, Great pictures!! Many thanks to @kelemvor for posting the How-To video!!

A couple of points to keep in mind if/when you get your new equipment -

1. Not sure what the purpose of that shutoff valve is right at the filter inlet but it seems redundant to me. Why do you have a shutoff there? If it is not necessary then do not install one on the new filter. I understand having one near the skimmer.

2. Re-plumb your pool, pump & filter connections with straight wall PVC piping, it is much better than flex-tube. Use schedule-40 PVC piping, joints and quick-connect unions where needed.

3. Plumb the new sand filter with PVC quick-connect unions to make it easier to disassemble and remove the multiport valve on the top of the filter. Add shut-off valves as-needed to keep the pool water from draining. Being able to easily remove the top of the filter helps when you want to do a deep-cleaning of the sand and inspection of filter internals. That kind of maintenance should be performed annually at the start or close of the pool season.

4. Not sure how much of a project you want to make this, but having your pool return located so closely to the skimmer means that the pool water flow is going to have lots of stagnant spots. I would think adding a second return to the other end of the pool (if it can be done easily and without much of an eye-soar) would be really helpful it keeping more of your water moving. Of course, an additional return run with a long stretch of PVC could possibly require a higher HP model pump, so it would be a big consideration.

Just thoughts, for whatever they are worth....

[leena]

ive been reading that sometimes the hp can be misleading per pump on what amount of electricity / rpm /watts/amps it actually uses. I don't know much about electricity but can you tell which of these 2 pumps use less electricity on LOW? Im assuming the one that uses the less will be the one that will cost me the least to operate.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00212NNU4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl? _encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IPBL5VSUIDVO8 ........ I found a comment in the reviews that said this pump was rated 11 amps on high and 2.8 amps on low

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002HHM020/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IG567P89FGH0U&psc=1

[SunnyOptimism]

ive been reading that sometimes the hp can be misleading per pump on what amount of electricity / rpm /watts/amps it actually uses. I don't know much about electricity but can you tell which of these 2 pumps use less electricity on LOW? Im assuming the one that uses the less will be the one that will cost me the least to operate.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00212NNU4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl? _encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IPBL5VSUIDVO8 ........ I found a comment in the reviews that said this pump was rated 11 amps on high and 2.8 amps on low

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002HHM020/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IG567P89FGH0U&psc=1

That's not really an apples-to-apples comparison since one is just a pump and the other is a pump & filter combo.

Also, how much power the pump ACTUALLY consumes depends a lot on the specifics of your pool and the plumbing. The horsepower rating on pumps is typically a maximum power or break power consumption and then there also manufacturer who state just the power and a service factor or state the power multiplied by the service factor (service factor is how hard you can overdrive the pump without it failing). So a 1HP pump with a service factor of 1.5 is almost completely equivalent to a 1.5HP pump with a service factor of 1 when you run them at full speed.

I think for your pool you currently have a single-speed 1.5HP pump. If that makes you happy, then get a 2-speed, 1.5HP pump and I bet you'll run it on the lowest speed most of the time and save ~ 1/3 of the power. Beyond saying that (not much, I know), I'm not comfortable telling you which pump to buy. Perhaps other PF users have more insight....

[leena]

hmm, boy I get more confused the more I read, lol. All that flow rate, amps, head pressure, etc is getting over my head. Sounds like greek most the time. I understand a little here & there.

Im not happy with my 1.5hp because it is so powerful it appears to just blow the water thru the sand filter without actually filtering anything. Not to mention, being old , loud and using lots of electricity. Now the lid is broken so its leaking, hence Im replacing it. Granted I never determined if my filtering problem was a too big pump or a faulty sand filter so that makes me hesitant to know for sure what I need. But it SEEMS from reading on here that a smaller pump would be better not to mention cheaper to operate.

However, if I went back with a 1.5 hp 2 SPEED then I do have the option of running it on low so maybe that is the best of both worlds for me. I can run it on high for quick circulation or to vacuum but keep it on low to save energy and filter better. Before I only ran the 1.5hp for 3 hrs per day which was basically just to circulate the water, it didn't appear to filter anything. As reading in my earlier post, we controlled the filtering by using skimmer socks and then letting the worst debris settle and vacuum using the bucket method. Vacuuming using the pump seemed to scatter the small particles but was nice for big debris like leaves.

Ok, so this combo here might be the best of both worlds for me:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002HHM020/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IG567P89FGH0U&psc=1

However I have one concern: IS THAT FILTER BIG ENOUGH FOR THAT PUMP? I think 21" might be 150lbs of sand? Some people say the combos are always sized with a too big pump. Others say its easier to use properly matched equipment made for ea other.

[SunnyOptimism]

Given the size (volume) of your pool, 1.5HP would be the biggest pump you should ever use. Also, seeing your setup with the skimmer and return so close, I can easily see how a 1.5HP single speed pump would just blow water right through your pool.

As I said in earlier posts, you never want to overdrive a small sand filter with a big pump. Not only can you damage the filter with a high power pump but also sand filters work best at low flow rates.

So, in your situation, I personally would go with separate purchases and forget the combo units. I agree with others' sentiments that the pumps on those units are typically too big for the filter. I would much rather go with a 2-speed, 1HP pump and save the money so I could spend it on a bigger filter. Also, with all I have read, I have heard many times that a good 2-speed, 3/4 HP pump is all most standard residential AG pools need.

What's the history of your pool? Did you inherit it? Do you why such a big pump is on there in the first place?

[leena]

yes, the 1.5 hp pump is the one that came with the pool. The original sand filter cracked so we replaced it with the one we have now (was a used one from a person in community). It would save me money to just replace the control valve (this time the control valve is cracked but not the container that holds the sand) but the label on the sand filter is long gone so I would have no ideal which brand of control valve to order. Thanks for all your patience and help!

So here is the pump and filter I picked out to go together. The pump is 1hp, 2 speed Hayward. the sand filter is 21" (200lb) also a Hayward. Does that seem about right? The 1hp combos I looked at had like a 100lb sand filter with them so this is twice as big....

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVSKSO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=I8HOUVA2AH45N&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00212NNU4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=IPBL5VSUIDVO8

Weirdly this ends up being $90 cheaper than ordering one of the combos and its a bigger sand filter..................

[leena]

I know you said bigger is better, but is it possible to get it too big? I read one review of the pump Im getting and it said that low was so low that they weren't even able to use it on low. This would defeat my whole purpose for purchasing a 2 speed. However, Im not sure I understand how it all works so the sand filter may not have anything to do with the pump being able to be run on low..? Here are 2 larger sand filters, a 250lb and 300lb. IT would cost me like $36 more to go with the 250lb and $46 dollars more for the 300lb so Im willing to do it if you are sure they will still work with that 1hp pump on low.........

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EXWL46/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=I2GDUY4FFX3WT8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EY39QY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RNB0IBDGJPG4&coliid=I259WSJIDLW747

[leena]

I know ive rambled on for 4 pages but I think ive researched and asked all the questions I can think of. So Im going to repost this last question in a new simplified post so that no one has to read thru all 4 pages to help me.....Thanks sunny for hanging in there with me

[leena]

UPDATE...........I ended up ordering the 1HP 2 speed Hayward pump and the 300lb sand filter. The pump is strong enough on low to even vacuum with but drastically less pull than my old pump. I was so relieved, some had said low was too low to even use which would've defeated my whole purpose for buying a 2 speed. Not sure what their set up was but I have a 24 AG pool and the pump and filter are within 2 ft of the pool so I have only short runs of pipe. Not sure if that has anything to do with using low but anyways it seem plenty strong so far. True the water is gently swirling so not sure if that will leave "dead spots" in my pool, whereas the other pump was so strong the entire pool was "whirl pooling" so def no dead spots, but was too strong for sand filter, water was just blowing thru it. Will post here a final result of whether or not this new smaller pump and bigger filter solved my filtering problem.