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bgray
06-12-2006, 09:05 AM
Another newbie here with cloudy water after a horrible algae bloom...

Prior to finding this site, I have been following pool store directives (I even starting taking water samples to two different stores to get second opinions). Anyway, after shocking with calcium hypo and using some algaecide, one dealer had me use a product called System Support (sodium percarbonate). It seemed to have killed off much/all algae, as the water now appears somewhat more blue than green, but VERY CLOUDY. I also stir up white and green clouds when brushing.

Pool store test yesterday showed 0.83 free chlorine, pH 7.7, CYA 60.

Sounds like I need to start pouring in bleach to raise chlorine levels. Will this also clear the cloudiness? I have a 28k gallon gunite pool with Pentair cartridge filter, so I am unable to vacuum to waste. I could vacuum to the filter and clean it frequently??? Should I? Why/why not?

Yesterday, when I went to the dealer, I got the ol' "I don't know what to tell you" response. I was about to start calling pool service companies when I came across this site. Can somebody help me?

Thanks!
bgray

Bleach=Chlorine?
06-12-2006, 09:59 AM
Bgray,
You need to get your chlorine level in 'shock' territory, around 15ppm, and keep it there morning, noon and night for a week. Also, run your filter 24/7 while dealing with cloudy water. You are going to need to clean that filter a few times before the water is clear but need to filter it all out one way or the other (vacuuming or filtering). Each bottle of 6% Ultra Bleach (5.25% regular) will raise 10,000 gallons 6ppm (5.25ppm). Lastly, do yourself a favor and get a cheap test kit (walmart has plently) so you can test the water yourself.

bgray
06-12-2006, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the help.

A few more questions...
So, does that mean that I need to add 2.5 - 3 gallons of bleach tonight?
Test/add bleach (as necessary) each morning/evening thereafter?
The pump's been running 24/7 for a couple weeks.
Is it worth buying a vacuum head/hose? Would it speed up the process?
What effect will the additional chlorine have on the grayish/greenish dust? Will it just "go away"? Or, should I brush? If so, how often?

I guess I'm just impatient because I haven't seen clear blue water in a LONG time...

As far as test kits, I have an hth drop kit from last year. Do those things have a shlef life? Should you buy a new on each season?

Once I get this cleared up, I SWEAR to follow the 3B method...
THANKS!!!
bgray

Bleach=Chlorine?
06-12-2006, 10:51 AM
First, you can *kinda* test the reagents in your current test kit by comparing results from home test to same water sample taken to a couple pool stores. Generally the reagents need to be replaced every year. A good drop based kit, especially a titration kit like Ben's or Taylor K-2006 FAS-DPD will provide accurate results and the # of tests needed to manage pool from home. Second, I would buy a vacuum head and hose because it will be integral throughout the pool season. And will spead up the process if you can vacuum up all that dust. Also, I would brush the pool and try to work the sediment to the main drain if you have no vacuum for now. Third, I would add bleach each night, wait an hour or so, check the level, and add more if necessary. I would then repeat this process first thing in the morning and mid-day if possible.
Lastly, there is a bleach calculator (it is attached to a members signature - search bleachcalc) that will help approximate the amount of bleach needed depending on ppm etc.

bgray
06-12-2006, 11:33 AM
Bleach=Chlorine?,

Thanks for your help.
After work, I'll go shopping (again). Not at the pool store, this time...

My list:

A new drop test kit
A vacuum head/hose
Several gallons of unscented 6% bleach


I'll also download the bleachcalc program and check it out.
I'll try to test/adjust in the morning and evening.
Mid-day is kinda tough, since I have to work to pay for all the "Pool stuff" I've been sold over the past few weeks... :mad:
(lesson learned)
Will post results. Thanks again!
bgray

aquarium
06-12-2006, 11:41 AM
I feel your pain. Just went through the same experience, bought vacuum equipment, had the pool store test the water and sell me stuff.

"Honey, the water is still turning greener and greener..."

Since we just bought the house and I didn't know any of the history of what went into the pool prior to our arriving on the scene, I decided a complete drain down and refill would be best to get me back to a known condition. Clear blue and -way- easier to deal with now. It will cost us about $80 for the 15,000 gallons of new water but you'll spend that chasing the thing with chemicals.

TW

PS: The old control plate in the skimmer was cracked, so I bought a new one with a new rubber stopper -that had a hole drilled through it- for the little piece of rope to keep it tied to the plate. Yeah, that worked. Not.

This was one of those times when a bottom drain came in real handy. The little 1/6 HP sump pump I also bought would haven taken weeks to empty the pool, but it did water the grass well.

bgray
06-12-2006, 09:55 PM
OK, this evening's test results, using hth 5-way kit:
tc=1
pH=7.2
TA=110
CYA=80

I hooked up a vacuum hose to skimmer and went for the deep end. Bad idea...
I cannot vacuum to waste w/ my cartridge filter, so... I loaded up my filter with slimy green algae. :eek:

I cleaned it with hose nozzle (as well as I could before dark) and then added 5.4375 gallons of 6% bleach. Bleach calc indicated this would result in a PPM increase of 11.7

I think I'm gonna need a LOT of bleach. :confused:

Watermom
06-13-2006, 01:28 AM
CYA=80

I think I'm gonna need a LOT of bleach. :confused:

Yep! You are! With a cya of 80 you'll have to shock your chlorine level up to 20 and try and hold it there to kill the algae. See the chart at the following link.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

bgray
06-13-2006, 11:27 AM
test results as of 5:30 a.m. today:
TC 1.5
pH 7.2
TA 120
CYA 90

I realized that I had tri-chlor pucks in my chlorinator...duh. Turned it off.
I also found that there is now a proliferation of small soap bubbles on the surface of the pool. I believe that would be the result of me using some Simple Green to help clean my mucked-up filters last night from the unfortunate "vacuum incident." I guess I didn't rinse them as thoroughly as I usually do.

Nevertheless, this morning I added about 8.8 gallons of bleach per Bleachcalc and Watermom's CYA reminder (thanks...). Brushing continues to stir up green clouds.

If I continue to test/brush/chlorinate in a.m. and p.m., howlong should I expect before the water begins to clear up. My wife is ready to (a) kill me and (b) call a pool service company.

Thanks for all the help!
bgray

duraleigh
06-13-2006, 11:49 AM
Hi, bgray,

You're getting good advice...keep the Cl up there..that'll speed up your process.

My clearing took about five days keeping my Cl high the entire time. If you let it slip back from time to time, it'll take longer.

Sorry about the death threats....if you only get wounded, don't let her call the service company for a few more days.:)

aylad
06-13-2006, 12:42 PM
As long as you have green, you still have live algae. Keep adding bleach to go back up to 20 ppm--if you let your chlorine yo-yo up and down, you're fighting a losing battle. test at least a couple of times daily and each time add enough bleach to get back up to 20 ppm.......the more often you do this, the faster it'll clear up. Once all the algae is dead and you have cloudy (but white, not green clouds) water, continual brushing and leaving the filter on 24/7 will get rid of the dead algae suspended in the water, which is causing the cloudiness. Be patient, it WILL clear up. Calling a pool service at this point is likely to end up with people dumping lots of other unnecessary stuff in your pool to further complicate your situation!

Be sure and keep an eye on your filter pressure......

Janet

bgray
06-13-2006, 01:36 PM
My wife just called. She tested and TC was less than 1 ppm.
Is that normal when fighting an algae bloom? 20 ppm did not last even 6.5 hours? I told her to add another 9 gallons.

If that's normal, can somebody please calm my fears?
My CYA was at 90, so I cannot believe the sun used up all that Cl (even in HOT Texas...) But, I guess I can imagine it getting used up killing all those little algae critters... right?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

CarlD
06-13-2006, 01:40 PM
Right. Expect it until the algae is ALL dead.

bgray
06-13-2006, 01:46 PM
Thanks for the reassurance. I am so freaking out.

aylad
06-13-2006, 02:25 PM
Yup, it's normal--and it's the algae, not the sun that's consuming it. THat's why it takes additions multiple times a day to keep the Cl level high enough to do any good.

Janet

bgray
06-14-2006, 10:29 AM
OK, at 6:30 this morning I had TC of 12 and pH of 7.2
I did not test CYA, as the reagent is quickly running out. However, the last three tests (since turning off the chlorinator) have indicated 90, so I'm going with that for the time being.

I added about 4.3 gallons of 6% bleach this morning to get back in the 20ppm shock range.

I know I asked about how long to clear up. But, I guess I'm wondering how long until I see ANY difference?

Also, my wife came up with an interesting idea. In between the times I am able to brush, we activate our Polaris with the bag removed. He drives around, kicking up all that *stuff* that is on the floor (which I still cannot see...)

Does anybody have any input on this idea? It seemed to work yesterday, except that I still had live algae, which really gummed up my cartridge filter. It took me much longer to clean it last night. But, once the algae is killed, it seems like a good brushing supplement. Comments?

Thanks for all the help/psychlogical support!
bgray

duraleigh
06-14-2006, 10:52 AM
bgray,

based on your previous posts, I think you're making progress but I don't think you're bringing your Cl up high enough.

With a CYA of 90 and a gunite pool, I believe you are perfectly safe raising you Cl into the low 30's. That will ensure that you are reaching breakpoint and freeing up more Cl to do the job.

I agree that the Sun is not your issue with a CYA that high. I do believe organics are consuming the Cl so quickly that you are not reaching breakpoint.

bgray
06-14-2006, 11:25 AM
Well, the good news is that my wife reported a slight change in color from green to blue-green after this morning's additional Cl. :)

duraleigh,
Now that I've been given the green light to crank the Cl up to 30+, I am ready and able. The next time my wife will be able to tend to the pool is late this afternoon. Then, after work, I'll make another trip to Sam's (those people think I'm dissolving a body or something with all the bleach I'm buying...:o ) and mega-shock it after the sun goes down. Thanks for the feedback.

Anyone want to chime in on the Polaris idea? :confused:

bgray
06-14-2006, 03:28 PM
MORE GOOD NEWS!

My wife now describes the water color as "turquoise."
TC is still 20+, so we're holding our shock levels. HOORAY!
She did say that pH is reading at or slightly below 7.0 -- that is concerning me...
I know I read that pH readings could be wacky at high Cl levels. But, I thought the wackiness came in the form of unusually HIGH pH test results. Mine has dropped from 7.2 (consistently) to this latest result. Should I disregard it as high Cl wackiness? Or, should I add Borax? If add, how much? :confused:

She also said that the cloudiness resulting from brushing has moved from green to grayish-green. Sounds like progress to me!!! :D :D :D

I am a believer.

Thanks to all --
bgray

bgray
06-15-2006, 09:55 AM
UPDATE:

This morning, the water was definitely MUCH LESS green and MUCH MORE milky. When I cleaned my Pentair/PacFab cartridge filter, it was a LOT easier to clean the pleats with the hose than when there was slimy green algae.

My question now is: At what ppm do I need to keep the Cl levels until the water TOTALLY clears up? 20's per Ben's best guess CYA chart? 30's per advice of Duraleigh? Something else?

duraleigh
06-15-2006, 10:12 AM
Ben's chart is (I hope this is right) his approximation based on his experience and education as to when you actually reach breakpoint.

Importantly, it also protects vinyl liners from potential fading at those high levels. You have no vinyl to protect. Raising your Cl to 30 absolutely insures that you reach breakpoint...allowing your Cl to be more effective. It will come down to normal levels as the Sun and new organics continue to consume it.

I see no downside to shock level Cl in the low 30's for a gunite or Fibreglas pool.

DISCLAIMER: This opinion is based entirely on anecdotal evidence and, given the intelligence level of the opinionator, I would take it with a small grain of salt. :)

bgray
06-15-2006, 10:30 AM
duraleigh,

To clarify, I was not questioning your opinion, as I tend to agree with it.
I think my question was worded poorly...:(
Now that my algae is dead (???), do I need to keep Cl up in the 30s? Or, in the 20s? Or, some other "maintenance" level?

OR

Should I wait until the water is crystal clear before I allow it to come back down?

I want to do what I must to clear up the pool. I'm just thinking about the pain of dilution testing, the cost of the bleach, etc.

Thanks so much for your help through this.
bgray

duraleigh
06-15-2006, 12:43 PM
Bgray,

No prob....I heard what you were saying...just didn't clarify my answer.

Short answer - keep it up there 'til your water looks crystal clear.

You wont waste any Cl...that high level will simply kill all the bugs an dthen keep doing it's job keeping your pool sanitized. As it comes down, you would've used just as much at lower concentration.

Now, once your water is crystal (and it will be) let it drift down and then maintain it between 5-10ppm...that's your maintenance level and the level you need to keep your pool sanitized at that CYA level.

Nor will you consume excess bleach at that maintenance level. You will simply be holding higher concentrations than someone with lower CYA.

Order Ben's kit to reduce your testing workload. I think it's mandatory for keeping your pool clear year after year.

duraleigh
06-17-2006, 12:29 AM
I have kept my cl at 20+ (up to 30+ per duraleigh) for several days now.
The green is gone, and I continue to have a milky blue pool.
At this rate, it could be October before my li'l cartridge filter knocks out all of the cloudiness. :rolleyes:

My pH has consistently tested at 7.0. Should I raise it? I read that pH readings could be off when running super high cl levels.

If I need to raise it, do I use Borax? How much?

Thanks.

Leave the pH alone. Focus on chlorine.

Vacuum to help your pump and filter.

You need something that isn't posted as often as it should be on the forum. you need POP (pool owner patience).:)

If bring your Cl up to shock level at least twice a day, you will clear your pool. Vacuum, brush the sides to expose the algae to the chlorine, and keep the faith.

Probably 20 - 30 times a day the advice given here on the forum is "Keep your chlorine up". It works if you'll do it.

bgray
06-17-2006, 12:28 PM
Sorry about the dual-thread confusion :o

With my cartridge filter, I cannot vacuum to waste; so if I vacuum, it'll be to filter.

Two schools of thought: (1) Let my Polaris buzz around, stirring up sediment and suspending it in the water for my filter to catch; or, (2) letting it all settle and trying to vacuum the bottom (which I cannot see).

Since I don't have Ben's test kit (sacrilege, I know...), and my hth OTO kit only goes to 5, it is difficult (to say the least) to test for levels of 30+. It takes a 5:1 dilution. But, my tests have ben consistently showing 20+. So, keeping my cl up does not seem to be the issue.

I am considering a partial drain/refill. I am not sure if a partial drain would hurt my plaster?

duraleigh
06-17-2006, 01:19 PM
Hmmm. You seem to have lost faith that Cl will clear your pool. That's your call.

I can offer no other remedy. Partial draining may temporarily clear your pool and it may get it good enough so your filter can finish the job. The pool water that you do not drain will still be contaminated, however, and, unless you use Cl, I can think of no way to keep it clear on a permanent basis.

bgray
06-17-2006, 02:46 PM
I have not lost faith in Cl. I still have 17 bottles @ 1.84 gallons each.
I am admittedly impatient. I guess after seeing it turn from green to blue, it is now difficult to see ANY progress.

Question: does the high cl levels "eat" the dead algae? Or, are we relying on the filter to get it all, while maintaining high cl just keeps more from growing?

I really do want to understand.

Also, is it totally evil to consider a little clarifier to speed up the process?

duraleigh
06-17-2006, 03:15 PM
I have not lost faith in Cl. I still have 17 bottles @ 1.84 gallons each.
I am admittedly impatient. I guess after seeing it turn from green to blue, it is now difficult to see ANY progress.
Remember...POP

Question: does the high cl levels "eat" the dead algae? Or, are we relying on the filter to get it all, while maintaining high cl just keeps more from growing?
Good question...I don't know. I suspect probably a combination of both


Also, is it totally evil to consider a little clarifier to speed up the process?
Another good question...I would say it's likely a fine idea. Just don't fall into the trap of giving false credit to the clarifier thinking it "cured" the issue. The Cl cured the issue...the clarifier (floc) speeded the clearing process. Those that take that bait, throw clarifier in the pool after the pool goes green and that simply wont work

bgray
06-19-2006, 12:54 AM
OK, today I added some Super Blue clarifier (10 oz. for 28k gallon pool). I also added about 3 more gallons of bleach. The water is definitely clearing up. HOORAY!

My question is: how frequently can a clarifier like Super Blue be used? My spa cleared up beautifully, but the shallow end of my pool is still a little cloudy and I still cannot see the bottom of the deep end.

Thanks,
BG

mkamp1515
06-19-2006, 02:46 PM
BGray...keep up with the patience. I understand it is hard to do at times. By the way, your first name would not happen to be Bernard would it? If it is, I bet you are a football official in the Fort Worth Chapter. I am in that chapter (10 years). Let me know.

Mike Kamp

bgray
06-19-2006, 04:27 PM
Guilty, as charged. Indeed, I am that very same impatient football referee in FW. Small world, huh Mike?

I am just going crazy with 95+ degree weather and not being able to swim...

But, I'll be swimming soon...

aylad
06-20-2006, 12:09 AM
Simplybluepools,
let me warn you that Ben is very specific about not allowing spam on this website. In addition, he is adamant about those who are in the pool business attaching their relationship to the business in the signature line of EVERY post you make. Please follow the rules of the forum.

Thanks...
Janet

PoolDoc
06-20-2006, 06:32 AM
You may want to try out simplybluepools. I've been using this product for over 3 years and my water has been crystal clear.

YACP (Yet Another Copper Product), being flogged by YASS (Yet Another Sales Sleaze)!

Yer outta here! (Post deleted; user banned)

Ben

mkamp1515
06-20-2006, 09:25 AM
It is a small world. You need to be swimming so you can be in the proper shape for the season coming up. I understand that. Is it better today? Just keep doing what the people tell you to do on this forum...they know what they are talking about.

I have fortunatley not had algae yet since we built the pool last year. I have paid attention to this forum and it has helped. I do keep having a high phosphate problem though. Have been thru several bottles of PhosFree this year and it works. But something keeps getting in my pool to make the phosphates go off the charts which can lead to algae. Must be fertilizer somehow even though I do not get near the pool with it.

Keep up the work on the pool...you will be swimming soon.

Mike

bgray
06-20-2006, 01:52 PM
I dumped about 8.5 more gallons bleach in last night. This morning, I could ALMOST swear that I saw the dual drains in the deep end. However, it could be my eyes playing tricks on me, like when I'm trying to decide if I still see that dumb black spot when testing CYA. ;)

I'm hopeful that it'll be much clearer when I get home from work tonight.

BTW, since I've been running HIGH Cl levels for a while, what is a "safe" level before I let my kid in the pool? I don't want him to cry about burning eyes, etc.

Thanks all!

Simmons99
06-20-2006, 07:43 PM
I would wait until the chlorine is at least below 12ppm with a CYA of 60 for my kids to jump in.

bgray
06-21-2006, 06:17 PM
Water is TOTALLY CLEAR. :D :D :D
Thanks to all for advice, especially bleach=chlorine? and duraleigh.

I know I was an impatient, pig-headed slug. But, you helped me anyway.
THANKS!

duraleigh
06-21-2006, 07:46 PM
bgray,

Congrats! Remember to keep chlorine in that pool. Enjoy your Summer.:D

mkamp1515
06-22-2006, 12:36 PM
Way to Bernard. Just takes a little patience and TLC. Have fun. By the way, interesting what happened in Grapevine last weekend, huh?

Mike

itstoohot
06-26-2006, 01:10 PM
bgray,

Your story is inspiring (currently battling something myself) and your humor was impressive in light of the situation.

Great read and glad you won!:)

bgray
06-26-2006, 03:44 PM
itstoohot,

Thanks for your kind words.
Sometimes humor is birthed by adversity. Laugh to keep from crying.
However, I can say that, in hindsight, I have:
a greater understanding of water chemistry (it's much simpler than I was making it...), and

a great deal more respect and gratitude for those individuals that challenged me to move beyond my skepticism and my concern for my own health (I think my wife really was going to kill me...), and endure to the triumphant victory over algae.



I, bgray, do hereby vow to live by the BBB credo.