Cloudy water- Cartridge Filter

[johnnyf0614]

Hello, this is my first post. I have recently opened my pool a few weeks ago. I noticed a lot of algae at the time. I did the normal pool opening routine, with all chemicals, and the water became cloudy, white/blueish cloudy. I have had the water tested, and it seems fine. The water looks nice, just not clear at all. You can only see about 2-4 inches from the top. I have purchased a new cartridge for my filter, thinking that was it, and still not different. I have had the filter running for days now, and nothing has changed. I have tried clarifiers, super shock treatment, and algae remover, and nothing yet. Please help!!

[waterbear]

Please post a full set of tests results for FC, TC, pH, TA, CH, CYA, how may gallons is your pool and what it's made out of (plaster, fiberglass, vinyl).
It would also be helpful if you could list all the "clarifiers, super shock treatment, and algae removers" that you have dumped into the water along with their ingredients, if possible, and your normal pool chemicals that you have added so the good folk on this forum can get a handle on what is going on in your pool.
Do not rely on test strips for the above readings. Please either use a drop based kit or get the testing done at a pool store that does not use strips.

[johnnyf0614]

My pool is above ground 7500 gallon, vinyl liner. I am getting the water testing again at a store, so I will post the results for you this evening or tomorrow morning. I mainly used Blue Shield, liquid Shock, Sani-Shock 2, and the Blue Shield Algae Remover, and Blue Shield Clarifier. To which nothing worked so far. My test strips showed to be fine, and I took it to one store last week, where they did testing, and it was fine as well. I did notice an above normal amount of algae when I opened the pool, so I'm wondering if its just dead algae that the pool filter is not capturing..... Nonetheless, I will have the test results for you this evening. Thanks!

[johnnyf0614]

Ok, I had my father go and get the water tested. Just some information, I have a 12X18 Oval above Ground pool. 5 feet deep. I have a brand new Cartridge Filter, and 1.5 HP Pump. The results are as followed:

TA - 60
PH - 6.3
CYA - 0
Total Hardness - 140
TC - 4.4 (recently shocked)

Now the water has the whitish/blueish cloudiness to it. If I put my hand in the water, I can basically only go up to my wrist before I can't see my fingers in the water. I am currently increasing the TA and PH to normal levels. Any other suggestions to help clear the water would be appreciated!! Thanks so much!

[prh129]

Make sure you get the pH up ASAP - low pH can cause damage to the liner. You will need to get some CYA in there otherwise your chlorine will dissappear quickly. Bring your Cl level up to at least 10 ppm and hold it there as best you can. Keep the filter running for a couple of days and give us an update.

Peter

[johnnyf0614]

How do I increase the CYA, or does that increase when the PH and TA increase????

[prh129]

CYA is cyanuric acid (or isocyanuric acid) that is usually called Stabilizer that you can get at a pool store or store that sells pool chemicals. It dissolves slowly so you need to wait at least 5 days after application to get a good reading on where you are at. Some people add it to their skimmer and let it sit in the filter to dissolve (do not backwash if you have a sand filter) and others put the CYA in a sock or nylon hose, tie a knot and hang it in the pool. Either way is up to you. You want to shoot for a level of 30 ppm. It is also in tri-chlor pucks (and di-chlor too I believe) so if you use pucks that will also raise the CYA although more slowly than if you add it separately.

Peter

[johnnyf0614]

Great thanks. I have added the PH and Alkalinity additives, so hopefully that will increase the levels. I'll keep the filter running 24/7, and keep you posted!

[prh129]

Just so you know, a lot of people here (including me) use Borax to raise pH and Baking Soda to raise alkalinity. Much cheaper options than official "pool chemicals" but basically they are the same thing.

Peter

[johnnyf0614]

Great thanks. I've noticed from reading other threads about the regular household solutions instead of overpriced pool solutions. I'm learning slowly!!

[johnnyf0614]

I noticed that you recommend to bring the CL level up to 10ppm and hold it there. Is 10ppm above the normal level? Do you recommend using bleach to bring this up? My current total Chlorine level is 4.4, would 1 gallon of bleach suffice? And how often should I add this? What is a typical level to keep the chlorine level at? Sorry for so many questions....

[Watermom]

Any time that you have algae or cloudy water, your best bet for solving it is to 'shock' your pool which basically means to superchlorinate. How high depends on your cya level. Since you have no cya at this point, your shock level is 10ppm. See the chart at the following link for more info about that.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

I'm getting your volume to be roughly 6300 gallons. In a pool this size, each quart of plain, unscented 6% bleach will raise your chlorine level by about 2.5 ppm. Try and test your water 3x a day if you can (at the very minimum 2x a day) and each time, add enough bleach to get your cl level back to 10 ppm. Also continue running the pump 24/7.

I would wait to add the cya. For now, just keep the cl up and hopefully within a day or two it will clear. Then you can add the cya.
Hope this helps.

EDIT: Please do not start a new thread about the same problem. Since you have two threads currently running about this, I am going to merge them together. Having them in separate places makes it hard to help.

[johnnyf0614]

Ok, so once I get the water clear, I add the chem's to increase the CYA. How much bleach would I use to maintain. Am I still shooting for 3ppm then?

[Watermom]

No. Your chlorine level will depend on how high your cya is. Take another look at the link I put in my last post above.

[johnnyf0614]

Ahhh, I see. What should be the ideal CYA that I'm looking for once the pool is clear? FYI, I added 3 Qts. of Ultra Bleach tonight to the pool. I'll check the level tomorrow morning, and most likely need to add more bleach I assume. I appreciate all your help. This website is the extremely helpful for new pool owners like me

[Watermom]

Most of us like anywhere between 30-50.

[johnnyf0614]

Ok, well I added the 3qt. bottle of bleech Ultra last night. This morning the pool looked no different than it has been. I tested the water again, and the Chlorine was around 4. I added another 3Qt. bottle of bleech ultra this morning. Should I be adding more bleech at this point? Unfortunately I live in NJ, and work in NYC, so I won't be able to check the water again till this evening.

[Watermom]

As we suggested above, with a cya of 0, you need to be shocking the pool up to 10ppm. What was your cl reading before you added the 3 quarts last night? Try testing in the morning before work, as soon as you get home from work and then as late as you can before going to bed and each time, add enough bleach to get back to 10ppm. I know it is difficult, but it is crucial to sustain the shock level. If you let it yo-yo up and down, you'll never clear the pool. In a pool your size, each quart of 6% bleach should add about 2.5 ppm of chlorine.

[johnnyf0614]

I'm picking up a drop test kit tonight as well as a stabilizer, and more bleach. I'll do a test, and report the results this evening for you. I'm not sure how much of the bleach held in the pool today. I added 3 Qts. this morning, however its been sunny and in the 80's all day. With no CYA, I assume the chlorine will dispurse fairly fast. I should still hold off on adding the CYA till I get the pool clear correct? Also, would you recommend a good vacuuming tonight, or do you think I should wait till I can see the bottom of the pool??? Thanks!!

[johnnyf0614]

Ok, I tested the Chlorine this evening and it was about 5ish. I added more Bleach this evening. I also gave the pool a vacuum. When I did that though, it seemed to stir a lot up. There were lots of white foamish stuff everywhere on the surface. Is that due to the bleach, or the previously entered chemicals from last week? When I was done vacuuming, the pool was just flowing the white foamish stuff straight through the filter and back into the pool. This is really frustrating. I just want to make sure that I continue to keep the Chlorine level up as much as possible. It still doesn't look any different from this past weekend unfortunately.

[Watermom]

It has to be a result of all the stuff you put in there last week. Adding bleach will not cause it. Keep at it. I know you are getting frustrated, but don't give up. Also be sure you are running your pump 24/7. We'll stay with you til you get it solved.

[johnnyf0614]

This morning I checked the chlorine level, and it appeared to be around the 8ish level. I did notice that the PH seems to be increasing, although I'm still in the normal level. I assume thats due to the bleach. The pool this morning still had the white foam, and still continues to have the white cloudy color to the water. Still can't see the bottom. As you can imagine it is very frustrating. Thanks for your help

[scotty5x5]

One thing no one has mentioned and that I had to learn the hard way is to add Diatomacious Earth (DE) to your cartridge filter. I have 3 filters at 33 sq. feet each and add 2 1 pound coffee cans of DE each time I wash the filters.
The change will shock you! Your water, if everything else is in balance will be crystal clear!
Also when starting from a messed up pool run the pump for 24 hours straight and then change or clean cartridge and add more DE. You may have to do this another time or two depending on how much algae and calcium and stuff is in your water.
Good Luck
Scott

[johnnyf0614]

What does the DE due to the cartridge filter? How do I add the DE also??

[scotty5x5]

One thing no one has mentioned and that I had to learn the hard way is to add Diatomacious Earth (DE) to your cartridge filter. I have 3 filters at 33 sq. feet each and add 2 1 pound coffee cans of DE each time I wash the filters.
The change will shock you! Your water, if everything else is in balance will be crystal clear!
Also when starting from a messed up pool run the pump for 24 hours straight and then change or clean cartridge and add more DE. You may have to do this another time or two depending on how much algae and calcium and stuff is in your water.
Good Luck
Scott
I forgot to add that you might want to start with 1 coffee can of DE and adjust down or up if needed. If your filter pressure goes up too quickly use less next time but up to that point the more you use the cleaner your water will be.

[johnnyf0614]

Where do I add the DE??? in the center of the cartridge? down the skimmer? I have an Astral 150 Cartridge filter for a 12X18 pool, 1.5 HP pump.....

[RocKKer]

You would mix it with water and add it to the skimmer - for my DE filter I fill a bucket with a couple gallons of pool water and add the DE powder to it so you get a slurry, with the pump on you pour the DE slurry into the skimmer. I would try a gallon bucket maybe half full for the amount of DE that you want to add.

I haven't heard of putting DE in a cartridge filter, only a sand filter (and obviously a DE filter).

Be careful where you wash it off - when it dries the DE will be a powder once again and dangerous to breath.

[nectarologist]

Hi Johnny. I may not be much help but I figured it couldn't hurt to give some moral support.

I have had the same exact problems as you, my pool just cleared up 2 days ago, with the help of this board (thank you so much everyone). My biggest problem was trying to have patientce. I hear ya when you say how frustrating it is, but it will clear, it just takes time (seems to be a lot of it though). My water was black! I figured that running the filter for a couple of days straight would clear it once I had my chems balanced but it took me 2 full weeks to get it crystal clear.

As Scotty said, remember to clean your filter, otherwise it really cuts down on the effectiveness of it. I would clean mine in the am & then the pm initially and it was filthy each time. I also got those skimmer socks which really seemed to help. By the time I got them my water had started to clear to where I could see about 3ft down (4.5ft pool). At this point I was washing the filter off once per day (using a garden hose) & washing the socks at least twice (very dirty each time).

I too tried to vacum and had the same results (stuff being blown back into the pool). You may want to leave that until the water clears a bit more.
I also had the foam (mine was due to cheap algecide, didn't know better at the time). That cleared in a few days. It seems like you'll never get there but one morning you go out & it looks like you're making progress. Just remember to wash down the filter as often as needed (my pressure would rise anywhere from 5-7psi in between cleanings). You'll know when you only need to do it once b/c it won't have so much junk in it as the days go by (plus filter pressure won't rise so quickly, mine says wash when pressure is 5psi over starting pressure). If you still have your old one use that & when you are clear then put the new one back in. I had a one year old cartridge that filtered 2 years worth of junk in 2 weeks (pretty much ruined it) so I just ordered another one to start fresh with. Mine usually last me 3 seasons; I'm in the same neck of the woods as you (now Rockland county, use to live in Dumont, NJ). Good luck.

[johnnyf0614]

Thanks for the advice Nectar. ACtually last night it appeared to have made some progress as I can see some more clarity. Not perfect, and I'm sure the rain we got last night didn't help, but it was definitely an improvement. Thanks again for the advice!!

[scotty5x5]

Where do I add the DE??? in the center of the cartridge? down the skimmer? I have an Astral 150 Cartridge filter for a 12X18 pool, 1.5 HP pump.....
Just dump the DE straight into the skimmer basket with the pump running. I reiterate, this method delivers sparkling clear water much much quicker in cartridge filters. The old man I bought the house from told me to do it but then I read that the cartridge manufacturers don't endorse this method so I stopped. My water was never truly clear again until I started using the DE once more. Just keep an eye on your pressure and rinse the cartridges often until you get the gunk out. The cartridges trap so much gunk with the DE you will be amazed. After that you don't need to clean them any more often than without the DE.