Salt Water Chlorine Generator for New Pool Build

[Toybuilder]

Hi Folks,

Getting ready to start our new pool soon and we’re looking for information and suggestions on a SWCG. At the moment, we’re considering a Hayward Goldline but will entertain other ideas like the Autopilot. Is there a certain size/rating/output I should be looking for? Have never dealt with a SWCG before.

Our first pool didn’t have a SWCG. We basically poured in the chlorine and used pucks (don’t want to use pucks anymore). We’re getting the salt water chlorinator for peace of mind since there are times I’m unable to check because of work or when we take vacations.

Our pool will be freeform, approximately 16k gallon with an attached 8’ diameter spa holding about 850 gallons.

Our builder included the Pentair Intellichlor IC-40 in the original bid, but we scratched that from the list since it seems to be problematic.

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks!

[Toybuilder]

Currently comparing the Hayward AquaRite (AQR15) to the TurboCell (T-Cell-15). Anyone know what the difference is? Performance? Reliability? The product descriptions read almost exactly the same.

The only difference I can see is the price which the T-Cell is about half the price of the AQR15.

This is confusing.

[JimK]

I just posted this in your filter thread and realized I should post it here:


Thanks. No thanks. Yes. While PoolSean is the best on it, I think 50% to 100% greater than your pool's size (16k) is more than enough. With some, like mine, you can mix and match controllers and cells to get the ideal setup. If I were to decide to, I could put a bigger capacity cell in my manifold and just re-set the controller to run it. This unit can also act as the pump's timer, and, I believe, select between high and low speeds, but I didn't mess with what was working fine. It can even run an acid injection pump, too. May also brew the morning coffee, but I have not gone that route yet....

Like yours, the Aqua Rite has different cell size options that can be used with the same control unit. I believe the three options are 15k gal, 25k gal, and 40k gal.

IMO, while the 25k gal size would probably work fine for a 16k gal pool (though I don't know how the spa impacts this) the 40k gal size cell would offer the best value as it would last the longest.

Toy builder, though I only have first hand experience with the Aqua Rite, I'd have no problem recommending either brand based on what I've read. :)

[Toybuilder]

I just posted this in your filter thread and realized I should post it here:



Like yours, the Aqua Rite has different cell size options that can be used with the same control unit. I believe the three options are 15k gal, 25k gal, and 40k gal.

IMO, while the 25k gal size would probably work fine for a 16k gal pool (though I don't know how the spa impacts this) the 40k gal size cell would offer the best value as it would last the longest.

Toy builder, though I only have first hand experience with the Aqua Rite, I'd have no problem recommending either brand based on what I've read. :)

Thanks JimK. Do you know the difference between the AquaRite and T-Cell? Seem to me like they're the same thing. Also, they have another AquaRite model that plugs into a standard (GFCI) plug. No hardwiring required. This must be something new since I can't seem to find any reviews on it.

I think we're going to go with the 40k model...from someone. Heck, already have the largest sand filter available why not go with the largest SWCG available.

[JimK]

Currently comparing the Hayward AquaRite (AQR15) to the TurboCell (T-Cell-15). Anyone know what the difference is? Performance? Reliability? The product descriptions read almost exactly the same.

The only difference I can see is the price which the T-Cell is about half the price of the AQR15.

This is confusing.

There are essentially two parts to the system, the control unit and the cell. Unless it has changed (you might check with Hayward), the control unit for the three options, AQR15, AQR9, and AQR3 is the same. The difference is which cell comes with the unit;

AQR15 comes with the T-Cell 15, rated for 40k gal
AQR9 comes with the T-Cell 9, rated for 25k gal
AQR3 comes with the T-Cell 3, rated for 15k gal


https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/literature/LITAQRBR13.pdf

I hope this helps. :)

[Toybuilder]

Ok, now I feel stupid. I get it. No wonder there was a price difference. Thank JimK for setting me straight.

On to reseach Autopilot.

[JimK]

Thanks JimK. Do you know the difference between the AquaRite and T-Cell? Seem to me like they're the same thing. Also, they have another AquaRite model that plugs into a standard (GFCI) plug. No hardwiring required. This must be something new since I can't seem to find any reviews on it.

I think we're going to go with the 40k model...from someone. Heck, already have the largest sand filter available why not go with the largest SWCG available.

Yeah, it looks like the AQR15-120 is a new model.

I also just noticed they list an extended life cell (T-Cell 15LL). Hmmm...that must be new as well.....can't find any other info on it other than what's on the Hayward spec sheet. I wonder if it is compatible with my control unit. A longer life cell could mean lower cost in the long run. :)

[CarlD]

Autopilots can combine different controllers and cells, not necessarily a package. My thinking on that is look to get the controller that not only does everything you need it to do now, but will do everything you can imagine needing it to do in the future, then matching it with the cell you need/should have now ("now" being the next 5 years).

[Toybuilder]

Autopilots can combine different controllers and cells, not necessarily a package. My thinking on that is look to get the controller that not only does everything you need it to do now, but will do everything you can imagine needing it to do in the future, then matching it with the cell you need/should have now ("now" being the next 5 years).

Can you elaborate a little on the controller and what you mean by "a package". I've been on the the Autopilot website for about an hour now trying to figure out what I will need for our setup. By controller do you mean the Pool Pilot Digital? Do you have to have that? Seem like the manifoold is a separate item you need to puchase. Can you just use the manifold?

[CarlD]

Can you elaborate a little on the controller and what you mean by "a package". I've been on the the Autopilot website for about an hour now trying to figure out what I will need for our setup. By controller do you mean the Pool Pilot Digital? Do you have to have that? Seem like the manifoold is a separate item you need to puchase. Can you just use the manifold?

You really need to talk to an expert on this. The Controller is the power supply and programming box. Auto Pilot makes more than one. The manifold is simply (in short) plumbing to hold the salt cell and must have a PS and controller. I have the 75003 controller. There are others.

[Toybuilder]

Guess I'm going to have to dig a little deeper. The builder isn't familiar with the AutoPilot either, so I may pass on this one. It may be out of my price range anyway if you have to purchase the both the Pool Pilot and the Manifold.

[CarlD]

autopilot.com may be of some help. They have dealers all over.

[Toybuilder]

autopilot.com may be of some help. They have dealers all over.

I just sent an email to them. Apparently they don't have any "authorized dealers" here in Colorado. Can't blame them, I don't think we're is a big pool state. I'll keep searching the internet to see what I can find in the meantime.

[CarlD]

I got mine from a dealer on the Gulf, not in NJ.

[Toybuilder]

I got mine from a dealer on the Gulf, not in NJ.

I will save that for a last resort. I think I'm going to give Autopilot a couple of days to answer. Not in a hurry...at the moment. Out of curiosity, do you get snow/freezing temps where you live? Do you drain everything for winter?

[CarlD]

Oh, yeah. I get about a foot of ice, minimum, on top of my pool water. I drain below my skimmer and the return ports for the winter.

[Toybuilder]

Oh, yeah. I get about a foot of ice, minimum, on top of my pool water. I drain below my skimmer and the return ports for the winter.

The reason I ask is that we requested that our spa be usable year round. I'm just not sure how that's going to be possible with the winters we have. We've had sprinkler pipes crack in early spring. We're planning on enclosing the equipment with a shed or something but I'm not sure that will even work. Hopefully the builder has done this before and I'm just worrying over nothing. Do you know of anyone that has the spa open year round with freezing temps?

At any rate, I did a little more digging on the AutoPilot, and from what I can figure out, a power supply will be necessary, what they’re calling the Pool Pilot Digital or the Soft Touch along with the Manifold. For our setup, the cost will be about $1400 to $1500 (lowest prices I could find). Wee bit out of my league so I think I’m going to go with the Aqua Rite.

Thank you, and JimK, again for all your help. Couple of days and 2 biggies off my list.

On to the next inquiry. Any suggestions on robotic cleaners?

[Poolsean]

Toy, what size pool are you building? Where in Colorado? If we don't have an authorized dealer in your area, I can also work with your builder to get it installed.

[SunnyOptimism]

The reason I ask is that we requested that our spa be usable year round. I'm just not sure how that's going to be possible with the winters we have. We've had sprinkler pipes crack in early spring. We're planning on enclosing the equipment with a shed or something but I'm not sure that will even work. Hopefully the builder has done this before and I'm just worrying over nothing. Do you know of anyone that has the spa open year round with freezing temps?



I live in Tucson, a far warmer climate than yours, so I'll put in my two cent opinion on spa's in winter time - I don't think your request to have a usable spa year-round is feasible in your geographic area. I'm not saying that it can't be done (people use hot tubs in freezing climates all the time) but it depends A LOT on the location of your pool/spa relative to your house as well as how you plan to heat it (gas, electric, etc) and how you're going to winterize your pool relative to the spa.

As far as comfort goes, when the air temp hits the low 40's, going into and out of a heated spa can be difficult. Even if you are fully submerged up to your chin, your head is going to lose a lot of heat and it will be uncomfortable. We have freezing temps down here in the desert and I rarely want to go out to the spa once the air temps are below 55F...it's just more work/effort than I care to expend.

This brings up the other point - energy to heat a spa. 1 BTU is the energy it takes to heat 1 pound of water 1 deg F (water is 8.4 lbs/gallon). I have a 400,000 BTU/hr gas heater and an attached spa of roughly the same volume as yours. In winter, to go from 40F water temps up to 90F (if that's even possible given the surface heat loss) would take 336,000 of BTU's of gas, or about 3.36 Therms (gas cost is typically measured in Therms, 1 therm = 100,000 BTU). Given local gas costs here, that's probably about $10/hr to run the spa. That doesn't even factor in the electrical energy costs of running the pumps, so if you plan to use your spa a lot in the winter, it can cost you quite a bit of money :$::$::$:

Finally, winterization - If your spa and pool are connected on the same pump system, it will be hard to winterize your pool (close it) and keep your spa open. You'll need a chlorination method for your spa that doesn't rely on the SWCG because most cells have a cold-water cut off feature and won't run when the water temp is below 50F. Also, most automated pump control systems have an "anti-freeze" setting where the pumps run once the air temp drops close to freezing (my system is set to 38F air temp to kick on the anti-freeze option). Again, this complexity needs to be factored into winterization.

In your area, I probably would have opted for a pool with a separate hot tub or, with a pool/spa combo, then I would just winterize everything. My pool/spa stays running/open all year round because we rarely ever get any surface freezing here and day time temps in southern AZ can go into the 60's easily making winter algae a possibility.

Again, just my opinion. Folks in your area may do pool/spa combos a lot and, hopefully, your PB knows what he's doing....

[Poolsean]

Just re-read this string. Keep in mind that the output of the T15 is equivalent to the AutoPilot RC42 cell. My website shows the MSRP. Don't use that as a comparison for pricing.
If you're around the Denver area, Monarch Pools is an authorized dealer.

[Toybuilder]

I live in Tucson, a far warmer climate than yours, so I'll put in my two cent opinion on spa's in winter time - I don't think your request to have a usable spa year-round is feasible in your geographic area. I'm not saying that it can't be done (people use hot tubs in freezing climates all the time) but it depends A LOT on the location of your pool/spa relative to your house as well as how you plan to heat it (gas, electric, etc) and how you're going to winterize your pool relative to the spa.

As far as comfort goes, when the air temp hits the low 40's, going into and out of a heated spa can be difficult. Even if you are fully submerged up to your chin, your head is going to lose a lot of heat and it will be uncomfortable. We have freezing temps down here in the desert and I rarely want to go out to the spa once the air temps are below 55F...it's just more work/effort than I care to expend.

This brings up the other point - energy to heat a spa. 1 BTU is the energy it takes to heat 1 pound of water 1 deg F (water is 8.4 lbs/gallon). I have a 400,000 BTU/hr gas heater and an attached spa of roughly the same volume as yours. In winter, to go from 40F water temps up to 90F (if that's even possible given the surface heat loss) would take 336,000 of BTU's of gas, or about 3.36 Therms (gas cost is typically measured in Therms, 1 therm = 100,000 BTU). Given local gas costs here, that's probably about $10/hr to run the spa. That doesn't even factor in the electrical energy costs of running the pumps, so if you plan to use your spa a lot in the winter, it can cost you quite a bit of money :$::$::$:

Finally, winterization - If your spa and pool are connected on the same pump system, it will be hard to winterize your pool (close it) and keep your spa open. You'll need a chlorination method for your spa that doesn't rely on the SWCG because most cells have a cold-water cut off feature and won't run when the water temp is below 50F. Also, most automated pump control systems have an "anti-freeze" setting where the pumps run once the air temp drops close to freezing (my system is set to 38F air temp to kick on the anti-freeze option). Again, this complexity needs to be factored into winterization.

In your area, I probably would have opted for a pool with a separate hot tub or, with a pool/spa combo, then I would just winterize everything. My pool/spa stays running/open all year round because we rarely ever get any surface freezing here and day time temps in southern AZ can go into the 60's easily making winter algae a possibility.

Again, just my opinion. Folks in your area may do pool/spa combos a lot and, hopefully, your PB knows what he's doing....

Thanks for the post SunnyOptimism. There have been many concerns that have crossed our minds…my mind, and I’m fairly confident that our builder knows what he’s doing. He’s been building pools here for almost 30 years. We’ve been pretty careful to not pick a builder that was just a yes man and promised us the world. He’s proven himself several times already with suggestions/recommendations.

Prior to moving to Colorado, we lived in a dessert climate in southern California. Our temperature extremes went from 115 in the summer to sometimes 30’s in the winter. Not like they are here in Colorado, but we had some wild swings none the less. We jumped in the spa in those (good ol days) without issues. I understand the discomfort you’ve described but we love our relaxing spa and have not been bothered by the cold temps.

Right now, my main concern is more about possible damage to piping. Pipes freeze and break and I don’t want that to happen. I have sent a message to our builder to confirm that this will not be an issue.

I really appreciate the input and I know where you’re coming from. Hopefully, all will work out for the best.

[FormerBromineUser]

I asked one of our hydraulics gurus to take a look at your thread. Hopefully he can help! He knows a ton. ;)

[Toybuilder]

Just re-read this string. Keep in mind that the output of the T15 is equivalent to the AutoPilot RC42 cell. My website shows the MSRP. Don't use that as a comparison for pricing.
If you're around the Denver area, Monarch Pools is an authorized dealer.

Howdy PoolSean,

Glad to see you’re still around. To start off, our pool will be about 16k gallons with and attached spa with about 850 gallons, and we’re in the Denver metro area. We’ve contacted John at Monarch already so we are familiar with each other.

I’ve pretty much pulled the trigger on the AquaRite but I can still change my mind if you can convince me that Autopilot is better. At this moment, we just need a chlorine generator to give us piece of mind. The pump time will be controlled by the Pentair EasyTouch . The only thing that’s not covered is the salt level but I’m sure I can grab some kind of specific gravity meter to test that or bring a water sample into a pool store.

The prices I found for what the Pool Pilot Digital and the Manifold equivalent to the the AquaRite, and were not from the Autopilot website. That would have put us closer to $2000. Even Amazon would have been more.

Please tell me the difference between Hayward and AutoPilot. Our first pool didn’t have a SWCG so this is all new.

[Toybuilder]

I asked one of our hydraulics gurus to take a look at your thread. Hopefully he can help! He knows a ton. ;)

Our hydraulics guru? :) Ok, all kidding a side, every insight helps.

[FormerBromineUser]

Yea, well, you mentioned concerns about your pipes freezing.... Thought it couldn't hurt! Hope he replies about your spa.

I was the one who asked PoolSean to jump in earlier. What a busybody I am! If it were me, I would want as much info as possible. Better now, right? Sounds like you have a reliable builder so that's important too. It must be fun starting from scratch!

[CarlD]

Actually, I believe it was me who mentioned Poolsean first. But he really knows his stuff on SWCGs and is a valued member of our support team.
Sean's got to be careful, being in the pool biz, how he advises, because of our rules. And he is. So expect him to be more informational and less selling. Toybuilder will have to make the final decision.

Your builder will have to advise you on how to use the spa vs the pool in the winter. Pipes below the frost line won't freeze--if they are below the frost line--but it may be VERY expensive to run it all winter. I just don't know--I don't know spas.

[SunnyOptimism]

Very good luck to you during your pool build!

We also had a very experienced, long time Tucsonan PB build our pool (30 years in pool biz from a family of PBs back in Illinois) and it makes all the difference if you decide to go that route versus an owner/builder DIY job. As a data point, our pool was built by our PB and at exactly the same time my neighbors pool was built by a big regional pool chain. My job started 3 weeks later than my neighbor's build but was completed almost a month sooner. He has had no end of problems with his pool even now being over a year out. He got a "yes man" salesman to deal with (who was inexperienced and quit the company after 6 months) and I have my PBs direct cell phone line and I am on first name basis with his wife.

Sounds like you're in good hands. When they break ground, start a new thread with pictures so we all can enjoy watching the build. And enjoy the snowflakes and steamy spa water when the winter comes ;)

[SunnyOptimism]

And since we're doing the unsolicited opinion thing :) I would also add that you consider an acid pump, like the IntelliPH from Pentair, as part of your equipment pad. SWCG pools tend to have constantly rising pH which, especially in the beginning, means very frequent acid additions. An acid pump will also add to your "peace of mind / ease of use" factor.

I have an IC40 and it's worked just great for me. I'm kind of surprised your not going more with Pentair since you're going to use their IntelliTouch/EasyTouch control system. Usually Pentair offers a three year warranty if you bundle three pieces of their equipment in a single order, otherwise it's only 1 year. Would you be willing to share your pool build and equipment specs just so we all can "kick the tires" ;)

[Toybuilder]

Yea, well, you mentioned concerns about your pipes freezing.... Thought it couldn't hurt! Hope he replies about your spa.

I was the one who asked PoolSean to jump in earlier. What a busybody I am! If it were me, I would want as much info as possible. Better now, right? Sounds like you have a reliable builder so that's important too. It must be fun starting from scratch!

Oh, absolutely, Former. Long story short, our first build didn't exactly go as we wanted so we're getting a bit more involved now. It's a little stressful at times, but with all this info pouring from you guys, I think I'm making the correct decisions. Keep 'em coming!

[Toybuilder]

And since we're doing the unsolicited opinion thing :) I would also add that you consider an acid pump, like the IntelliPH from Pentair, as part of your equipment pad. SWCG pools tend to have constantly rising pH which, especially in the beginning, means very frequent acid additions. An acid pump will also add to your "peace of mind / ease of use" factor.

I have an IC40 and it's worked just great for me. I'm kind of surprised your not going more with Pentair since you're going to use their IntelliTouch/EasyTouch control system. Usually Pentair offers a three year warranty if you bundle three pieces of their equipment in a single order, otherwise it's only 1 year. Would you be willing to share your pool build and equipment specs just so we all can "kick the tires" ;)

Morning Sunny! I'm used to doing things manually from my old pool so I'm not so sure about the acid pump. I'm trying not to add too much in that will need maintenance...but will keep some conveniences. :) Best of both worlds. The SWCG is to make sure we're getting chlorine in the pool. I sometimes work some pretty long hours including weekends and our vacations can last about 2 weeks. That is the only reason we're getting it.

The decision to go not go with the Intellichlor was based on what I've read, and even the builder said it wasn't very reliable and didn't mind the switch. Honest man. There have been some good reviews on the IC40, like yours, but there seemed to be more bad.

We are still getting the 3 year warranty as you mentioned since our pumps, heater, and filter will be from Pentair. Our setup is actually very close to yours, Intelliflo VS, (smaller pump for the waterfeature but I'm still waking up so I can't think off the top of my head), MasterTemp Heater, and TR-140 sand filter. Also, the EasyTouch.

Do you have pics posted of your pool? I'd love to take a look.

[Toybuilder]

I'm going to post a "rant" in the China Shop one of these days to let you know how we got to this position with our pool. Our original idea was a "Lazy River" with a lagoon in the middle Now that was stressful!!!

[SunnyOptimism]

Morning Sunny! I'm used to doing things manually from my old pool so I'm not so sure about the acid pump. I'm trying not to add too much in that will need maintenance...but will keep some conveniences. :) Best of both worlds. The SWCG is to make sure we're getting chlorine in the pool. I sometimes work some pretty long hours including weekends and our vacations can last about 2 weeks. That is the only reason we're getting it.

The decision to go not go with the Intellichlor was based on what I've read, and even the builder said it wasn't very reliable and didn't mind the switch. Honest man. There have been some good reviews on the IC40, like yours, but there seemed to be more bad.

We are still getting the 3 year warranty as you mentioned since our pumps, heater, and filter will be from Pentair. Our setup is actually very close to yours, Intelliflo VS, (smaller pump for the waterfeature but I'm still waking up so I can't think off the top of my head), MasterTemp Heater, and TR-140 sand filter. Also, the EasyTouch.

Do you have pics posted of your pool? I'd love to take a look.

IC40 has been working fine....maybe Fortune is just smiling on the foolish :)

Here's my pool in the morning -

http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/SunnyOptimism/BF2B2E07-93CC-419E-9B47-3BD36A0D4633_zpsbckyxowx.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/SunnyOptimism/media/BF2B2E07-93CC-419E-9B47-3BD36A0D4633_zpsbckyxowx.jpg.html)

[JimK]

Howdy PoolSean,

Glad to see you’re still around. To start off, our pool will be about 16k gallons with and attached spa with about 850 gallons, and we’re in the Denver metro area. We’ve contacted John at Monarch already so we are familiar with each other.

I’ve pretty much pulled the trigger on the AquaRite but I can still change my mind if you can convince me that Autopilot is better. At this moment, we just need a chlorine generator to give us piece of mind. The pump time will be controlled by the Pentair EasyTouch . The only thing that’s not covered is the salt level but I’m sure I can grab some kind of specific gravity meter to test that or bring a water sample into a pool store.

The prices I found for what the Pool Pilot Digital and the Manifold equivalent to the the AquaRite, and were not from the Autopilot website. That would have put us closer to $2000. Even Amazon would have been more.

Please tell me the difference between Hayward and AutoPilot. Our first pool didn’t have a SWCG so this is all new.

These work well for testing salt level;


http://www.amazon.com/Aquachek-White-Water-Swimming-Strips/dp/B0036UNV8E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413728914&sr=8-1&keywords=salt+test+strips

[JimK]

IC40 has been working fine....maybe Fortune is just smiling on the foolish :)

Here's my pool in the morning -

http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q618/SunnyOptimism/BF2B2E07-93CC-419E-9B47-3BD36A0D4633_zpsbckyxowx.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/SunnyOptimism/media/BF2B2E07-93CC-419E-9B47-3BD36A0D4633_zpsbckyxowx.jpg.html)

Beautiful!

[Toybuilder]

IC40 has been working fine....maybe Fortune is just smiling on the foolish :)

Here's my pool in the morning -

Awesome! Funny, you may be getting a twin here in Colorado. :) Our design is very similar except our spa is about 3ft away from the pool and not raised. But the rock waterfall and general shape is almost exact.

[SunnyOptimism]

These work well for testing salt level;


http://www.amazon.com/Aquachek-White-Water-Swimming-Strips/dp/B0036UNV8E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413728914&sr=8-1&keywords=salt+test+strips

I have both test strips and Taylor K-1766 chloride test drops. Taylor drops are more accurate BUT here's the deal - don't get too crazy trying to exactly measure your salt levels, it'll only drive you nuts. Once your PB loads the salt in your pool at startup and assuming the SWCG cell is happy, you only need to test salt levels maybe twice per swim season or after a major (>10%) water exchange. Too many SWG owners get way too crazy trying to figure out their salt levels to the last signigicant digit. The available tests are, at best, +\- 200ppm accurate. If your salt cell says it's happy, then you're good. The whole point of making SWCG practical is for the process to be insensitive to salt concentration over a wide range or else it would be too much of a hassle for the user.

Just my $0.02 opinion.

[JimK]

I have both test strips and Taylor K-1766 chloride test drops. Taylor drops are more accurate BUT here's the deal - don't get too crazy trying to exactly measure your salt levels, it'll only drive you nuts. Once your PB loads the salt in your pool at startup and assuming the SWCG cell is happy, you only need to test salt levels maybe twice per swim season or after a major (>10%) water exchange. Too many SWG owners get way too crazy trying to figure out their salt levels to the last signigicant digit. The available tests are, at best, +\- 200ppm accurate. If your salt cell says it's happy, then you're good. The whole point of making SWCG practical is for the process to be insensitive to salt concentration over a wide range or else it would be too much of a hassle for the user.

Just my $0.02 opinion.

You're right, salt isn't something you have to check often.

One thing to be careful about though, one sign a salt cell is starting to fail is it can give incorrect low salt readings. Some have gone ahead and added salt without verifying level and ended up with way too much salt. If my SWCG reports low salt, I always verify the level before adding.

We get a bit more rain here on the mid Atlantic coast, so I usually have to add salt a few times a year. I usually go through 150# to 200# a year.

I thought about trying the Taylor kit, but the strips seem to be accurate enough and are easier to use. Do you also find this to be the case or are there circumstances where you find the Taylor kit more helpful?

[JimK]

Toybuilder,

Something that's been mentioned but I would like to stress, despite what the pool dealer/store/owners manual might say about using the SWCG, only use it to maintain proper chlorine level. Do not use it to "shock", "super chlorinate", or raise chlorine levels. Use some other form of chlorine for that (plain bleach is most popular here; that's what I use).

Following this advice your salt cell will last longer. I learned this the hard (expensive) way. My first cell, before I found this forum and learned about proper SWCG usage, only lasted 4 seasons. My second cell, using it as recommended here, is in it's 7th season and still working well.

[SunnyOptimism]

You're right, salt isn't something you have to check often.

One thing to be careful about though, one sign a salt cell is starting to fail is it can give incorrect low salt readings. Some have gone ahead and added salt without verifying level and ended up with way too much salt. If my SWCG reports low salt, I always verify the level before adding.

We get a bit more rain here on the mid Atlantic coast, so I usually have to add salt a few times a year. I usually go through 150# to 200# a year.

I thought about trying the Taylor kit, but the strips seem to be accurate enough and are easier to use. Do you also find this to be the case or are there circumstances where you find the Taylor kit more helpful?

Hahahaha....yup, that's my story - had a funny low salt reading and did not properly verify. Wound up over-salting the pool and had to drain 20% of my water. Sending the water company a big check has a way of teaching you a good lesson ;)

Strips always read about 400ppm lower than expected and the salt drops are practically on the money with what my IC40 reports. But salt drops are messy AND I don't like messing around with potassium chromate (hexavalent chromium is a carcinogen). So I only use the drops when I absolutely have to and I use the strips for more routine testing.

[SunnyOptimism]

Toybuilder,

Something that's been mentioned but I would like to stress, despite what the pool dealer/store/owners manual might say about using the SWCG, only use it to maintain proper chlorine level. Do not use it to "shock", "super chlorinate", or raise chlorine levels. Use some other form of chlorine for that (plain bleach is most popular here; that's what I use).

Following this advice your salt cell will last longer. I learned this the hard (expensive) way. My first cell, before I found this forum and learned about proper SWCG usage, only lasted 4 seasons. My second cell, using it as recommended here, is in it's 7th season and still working well.

+1

Excellent post!! Superchlorinating/Boost mode is total sales literature nonsense!!

[CarlD]

And since we're doing the unsolicited opinion thing :) I would also add that you consider an acid pump, like the IntelliPH from Pentair, as part of your equipment pad. SWCG pools tend to have constantly rising pH which, especially in the beginning, means very frequent acid additions. An acid pump will also add to your "peace of mind / ease of use" factor.

I have an IC40 and it's worked just great for me. I'm kind of surprised your not going more with Pentair since you're going to use their IntelliTouch/EasyTouch control system. Usually Pentair offers a three year warranty if you bundle three pieces of their equipment in a single order, otherwise it's only 1 year. Would you be willing to share your pool build and equipment specs just so we all can "kick the tires" ;)

I have to disagree. While it is true many SWCG owners have a rising pH problem, not all of us do. In fact, I NEVER do. You can always install an acid pump later if you find it's a problem. You WILL have rising acid when your pool is new, but if you just buy a couple of $10 floating chlorinators and fill them with Tri-Chlor tabs, they will control your rising pH during the 6-8 week curing period and add some of the CYA you need, too. You CAN use chlorine with an SWCG without a problem.

It's too easy to get into the buy, buy, buy mode when it's new and while we can frequently all be equipment junkies, it's better to learn and master the BBB method FIRST and use the equipment to augment that, not replace it.

[JimK]

In my case the strips usually read about 200-300ppm higher than what my SWCG reports. I figure this is close enough to get me in range.

You just talked me out of getting the Taylor kit. :D

[JimK]

I have to disagree. While it is true many SWCG owners have a rising pH problem, not all of us do. In fact, I NEVER do. You can always install an acid pump later if you find it's a problem. You WILL have rising acid when your pool is new, but if you just buy a couple of $10 floating chlorinators and fill them with Tri-Chlor tabs, they will control your rising pH during the 6-8 week curing period and add some of the CYA you need, too. You CAN use chlorine with an SWCG without a problem.

It's too easy to get into the buy, buy, buy mode when it's new and while we can frequently all be equipment junkies, it's better to learn and master the BBB method FIRST and use the equipment to augment that, not replace it.

I agree with Carl.

I seemed to have found the sweet spot with TA and borates in my pool (TA about 80, borates about 60). This is the second season I haven't had to add a single drop of acid to adjust pH. It seems to level off at 7.5-7.6 and stays there the whole season.

[SunnyOptimism]

Have to go to church but I'll add this to all you acid-pump haters :p - vinyl pools are a very different beast than gunite/plaster pools. Also, east coast fill water is very different than western water. My fill pH is 8.0 on a good day, my fill TA is 120ppm minimum and my CH is 280ppm. That plus plaster means an ever rising pH.

Acid pumps help a lot with that rise and I have used borates quite successfully. I totally agree with the "keep it simple, stupid" principle but I am definitely planning on an acid pump install in the near future.

Just my $0.02 opinion....

[JimK]

Have to go to church but I'll add this to all you acid-pump haters :p - vinyl pools are a very different beast than gunite/plaster pools. Also, east coast fill water is very different than western water. My fill pH is 8.0 on a good day, my fill TA is 120ppm minimum and my CH is 280ppm. That plus plaster means an ever rising pH.

Acid pumps help a lot with that rise and I have used borates quite successfully. I totally agree with the "keep it simple, stupid" principle but I am definitely planning on an acid pump install in the near future.

Just my $0.02 opinion....

Touché :D

[CarlD]

Have to go to church but I'll add this to all you acid-pump haters :p - vinyl pools are a very different beast than gunite/plaster pools. Also, east coast fill water is very different than western water. My fill pH is 8.0 on a good day, my fill TA is 120ppm minimum and my CH is 280ppm. That plus plaster means an ever rising pH.

Acid pumps help a lot with that rise and I have used borates quite successfully. I totally agree with the "keep it simple, stupid" principle but I am definitely planning on an acid pump install in the near future.

Just my $0.02 opinion....

This is just silly and a bit insulting.

I don't hate acid pumps any more than I hate filters other than sand filters. And while I am a vinyl pool owner, it doesn't mean, after a dozen years or more at PF, that I haven't seen hundreds, even thousands of threads on the issues of masonry pools. There's lots of ways to achieve an end and I'm just not a big fan of spending money when it may not be needed. If Toybuilder finds that pH is rising, then it may be appropriate to add an acid pump. But to assume one is needed before it is established may well be wasted money. Toybuilder hasn't given us a reading on the local fill water so its pH may well be normal, not excessively high. (Which, of course, makes me wonder about your water works managers, who let public water go out with high pH.)

And if there's one philosophy that has always flowed through PF, it's that wasting money on your pool isn't a good thing.

[SunnyOptimism]

This is just silly and a bit insulting.

I don't hate acid pumps any more than I hate filters other than sand filters. And while I am a vinyl pool owner, it doesn't mean, after a dozen years or more at PF, that I haven't seen hundreds, even thousands of threads on the issues of masonry pools. There's lots of ways to achieve an end and I'm just not a big fan of spending money when it may not be needed. If Toybuilder finds that pH is rising, then it may be appropriate to add an acid pump. But to assume one is needed before it is established may well be wasted money. Toybuilder hasn't given us a reading on the local fill water so its pH may well be normal, not excessively high. (Which, of course, makes me wonder about your water works managers, who let public water go out with high pH.)

And if there's one philosophy that has always flowed through PF, it's that wasting money on your pool isn't a good thing.

@CarlD,

My post was written in jest and not intended to offend. That said, I am sorry for offending you.

I agree with your position that all pools are different and one should exercise caution before wasting money on unnecessary equipment. I have waited a full swim season before I feel comfortable justifying my eventual purchase of an IntelliPH. I'm glad I waited to get to know my pool water life cycle. I was only trying to help out @Toybuilder to consider potential options, nothing more.

Thank you for your experience and willingness to share it for the benefit of others.

[Toybuilder]

SunnyOptimism, can you tell me a little about the EasyTouch? What's good and what you think is bad? We've used the Aqualink RS previously and loved it. Hoping this is similar.

[SunnyOptimism]

Toybuilder hasn't given us a reading on the local fill water so its pH may well be normal, not excessively high. (Which, of course, makes me wonder about your water works managers, who let public water go out with high pH.)


They can't lower it too much because it causes plumbing to corrode. Here's the quick summary -

Arizona primarily steals....ummm, I mean "borrows" water from the Colorado River (surface water) and produces water from a few deep aquifers. The water is all fed through something called the CAP (Central Arizona Project) which, like California, is a series of large reservoirs and aqueducts to deliver water to us desert-dwellers. The water from the CAP is shipped down to Tucson BUT, before it gets here, it is injected back into the ground and pumped back up again before processing and delivery. This process of injection makes the water's mineral balance and pH closer to local conditions and saves a lot of water from evaporation.

Because of this and other factors, if you lower the pH of the municipal water too much relative to the local ground water, you run the risk of destroying household plumbing by, in effect, creating an electrochemical cell. Also, pH 8.0 water is not at all unusual in the West. The water here is "sweet" compared to the more acidic nature of water found east of the Mississippi. We also have substantial differences in soil composition which is why western water is heavy in calcium (and bad for making pizza dough) and eastern water is heavy in iron (great for pizza dough)....This is from an Italian boy from Long Island (me) who sorely misses his NY pizza :(

[SunnyOptimism]

SunnyOptimism, can you tell me a little about the EasyTouch? What's good and what you think is bad? We've used the Aqualink RS previously and loved it. Hoping this is similar.

I have an 8-channel unit (meaning you can program up to 8 circuits with it). I use mine to run the Spa, Pool, High-Speed setting on VS pump, Waterfall pump, lights, etc. It's not fancy and I like it that way. It's a basic 4-line LCD display and it communicates with the IntelliTouch panel by RF link (no Blutetooth, WiFi, etc). So while it may not have all the gizmos and functionality that the more advanced interfaces have (like the ScreenLogic system), I'm very happy with the more solid, low tech approach (and it's water proof so I could drop it in the pool as opposed to my iPad...).

Downsides - the setup and programming of it is a little arcane but not impossible to understand. So if you're really geeked-out by doing automation and checking your pool parameter via iPhone apps, the EasyTouch is not for you. It has a limited range unless you buy the powered antenna for it (which I have) so if your electronics are far from the house, it won't work without the additional boost from the antenna.

All-in-all, I really like it and it saves me a trip out to the equipment pad if I want to turn on the pool lights or get the spa running.