shock level with solid cover when closing?

[rajung]

I read the sticky notes for closing, But I am ready to start closing with a solid cover and first time using a 4x15 air pillow." that should be interesting getting those 2 items in without throwing a fit and tossing the pillow in the trash before its all done.Since its a solid cover,should the shock level be less than what is on the best guess chart, I think that is around 20ppm?Read somewhere about not being able to out gas when covered.
And speaking of the cover and pool pillow,when I tie off the pillow at both ends to the pool uprights and leave enough slack in the cords so cover can still rest on top of the lowered pool water,would it just end up moving around under cover even after I put some water on top of cover?
I just bought a new cover, 20x36, which gives me 2 feet extra all around, but with the pool water lowered 6 inches below return, as in the past, that extra slack,which should have cover draped down side of pool wall and across water I doubt will be there especially with a pillow in the middle now and end up angled from the pool walls and over the pillow.
Am I over killing this or doing something that's going to put too much pressure on the walls?
Last winter, which seemed only weeks ago I found myself removing snow almost every 3 days.

[BigDave]

The cover should be slack and on top of the water. Let some air out of the pillow.

[rajung]

Thanks, So I assume what I will do is ok, I haven't done all this yet, will do in a few days.
As far as shock, with a solid cover,should I elevate the FC to normal shock level or reduced?thanks

[BigDave]

I bring to shock level as per the Best Guess Chart when I close.

[JimK]

I bring to shock level as per the Best Guess Chart when I close.

I think one of the OP's concerns is whether or not covering the pool with a solid cover after shocking will cause issues with the pool out gassing.

After shocking, do you wait a bit before covering so byproducts have a chance to properly out gas? Or do you cover right away after shocking?

[rajung]

That is correct,I do think I will shock to the 20ppm, then wait a few days for it to drop back to the 5.0ppm for my stabilizer level which is at 40ppm.
Sound right?

[FormerBromineUser]

Just an aside.... Are you also worried about high CL affecting your cover? Also, do you have a pump on your cover over the winter?

[rajung]

I take all my equipment to the garage,except heater which I cover.
More worried about the high chlorine level on the vinyl liner than the cover.
I think I am going to go to the shock level 20,and wait couple days,check FC and when it gets down to 5 ppm I will cover.My CYA is currently at 40ppm.

[CarlD]

The Best Guess table says your shock level, with a CYA of 40, is 15ppm, not 20.

I would suggest, if you are uncomfortable closing the cover with the FC at 15, that you wait until the water temp is around 60deg or lower, and then let the FC drop before you cover. Algae doesn't grow much in cold water.

Beyond that, I always use a mesh cover. Not this year, as I'm rebuilding the pool and there's no water in it. Also no liner and no walls!:D

[rajung]

Thanks for the info.
As far as a mesh cover, we don't have any trees, there is one large pine tree about 30ft away.
Last year we received 58 inches of snow, average normally is 36"
And I did get really tired of using a roof rake to remove snow off the pool almost every week.
I tried to keep all the snow off cover, but after awhile,it is really tiresome.
Never thought about a mesh cover,what is the advantage of that and in your opinion, would that work for the environment I am in?
Not certain on what winters are like in NJ.
Thanks

[CarlD]

Well, my mesh cover did GREAT for 10 winters. Then we had the freaky 2013/2014 winter. I didn't have pillows in my pool and the snow on top turned to ice, then merged/melted/refroze to the water in the pool, tearing down my copings. So....next year the mesh will have a pillow underneath (again) to prevent that.

[rajung]

wow, last year was a mess, agree.
So I am starting to think either way I go is a crap shoot.
Maybe I will stick with the new solid cover I just received along with the 15' pillow, and hope it doesn't deflate in a few weeks and continue to scrape snow off
Thanks again

[FormerBromineUser]

Can you put a pump on top of your cover? That's what I do on my auto-cover. When we get a melty day, on goes the pump and it removes all the melted snow so ice doesn't accumulate much at all over the winter. Only issue I have is when I accidentally leave the pump and out-flow hose outside and water freezes inside it. I use a black hose just in case so it will unfreeze faster if I screw up.

[rajung]

After reading some other winterizing posts on here, I am starting to contemplate not covering the pool due to the hassle of the pillow and cover.If that's the route I go would it be OK to start now as far as getting the water to shock level with a slightly higher ph for a couple days and then drain below return and remove all the equipment?The temps here for the next few days are in the mid 70's but after that it looks low to mid 60's so it looks like the end.
There is only one tree near pool on the neighbors yard about 40-50 feet away, a large pine tree that on a real windy day may throw some pine needles or cones into it.
If this winter is like last at 60" snow,removing snow with a snow roof rake is not fun every 3 days.
For those that don't cover,can the snow just build up on pool and left to accumulate all winter without removing any?
I guess main concern I have is shutting everything down uncovered, and then have a water issue such as algae.

[CarlD]

If the pool is uncovered, the snow and ice shouldn't be a problem. If you're going to keep it uncovered, and are worried about detritus setting off an algae bloom, I'd wait for the WATER temp to get to 60 or just above to close it. Below 60 inhibits algae growth.

Personally, I'd keep it very clean as the temp goes down, keep the FC at or near shock level, then when I'm ready to close, I'd add a 1/2 to a full quart of Polyquat 60%, wait 48 hours (FC will drop precipitously), raise FC back to shock level, then close.

[Watermom]

I don't cover but I keep my pump hooked up for awhile yet so that I can add some chlorine every now and then if needed. If you close too early, you are more likely to have a green pool in the spring. I actually don't take my pump off til we start having freezing night time temps which is usually late October or early November for us. Snow in the pool is not an issue

[CarlD]

Watermom is a better source than I am because she regularly closes an uncovered pool. I, instead, use a safety mesh, but not this year as I'm in re-build mode.

[rajung]

thanks folks for the replies.
Starting to feel a little more comfortable about attempting the no cover winterization.
so what is the main reason for using a solid or mesh cover? leaves?
If I have no trees close, and do remove any leaves that get in there up until the water freezes that would be so great compared to what I have been doing as far as scooping snow out and having a fairly tight cover around perimeter.

[CarlD]

I use a safety cover to prevent living creatures, especially human, from falling in to icy water, which can be deadly. I use a safety mesh to (hopefully) keep water from collecting on the cover to be pumped off.

[JimK]

A solid cover will help block dirt from accumulating for an easier spring cleanup. It will also completely block out light, allowing you to close the pool when you want rather than having to waiting until water temp stays below 60 degrees, or in spring, open once water temp reaches 60 degrees. If you tend to get a lot of rain over the winter (we do) and have to keep an eye on water level (pumping water out as needed), it will also prevent the chems in the pool from being diluted.

As Carl mentioned though, a mesh safety cover is the only true safety cover.

[CarlD]

Actually, safety covers come in both mesh and solid. I prefer mesh. I find the amount of detritus accumulation in the spring isn't bad. I usually just run my robot vac 3 or 4 times and it's clear.

Personally, I think, from many years here, that PROPER fall preparation for closing and for the type of cover you are using is more important than the cover choice (or lack of cover). People here have success with no cover, a standard water-bag cover (IG), a standard AG cover, solid safety and mesh safety covers. And it all comes back to preparation and through-the-winter maintenance.

[JimK]

You're right, proper prep and maint is key. :)

My point about safety covers was since solid "safety covers", unlike mesh safety covers, accumulate water on top, they're not a "true" safety cover. Now of course if you are diligent about removing accumulate water, the both offer far more safety than a traditional water bag tarp style cover which can be a death trap.

I should note that there are also "solid" safety covers with a mesh panel in the center that helps prevent water from accumulating on top.

[CarlD]

A safety cover differs in that it can support a great deal of weight, though mine hit its failure point when the ice and snow melted and re-froze to the ice in the pool. The cover itself didn't tear or fail, but it tore down several copings that hold the liner, stretched many clips that hook to the retaining pegs, and even broke a couple. Still, if someone had fallen in, the cover almost certainly would have supported them, and, I'll be able to repair it for next season's closing by replacing clips.

[JimK]

I use our mesh safety cover that came with the pool to support a tarp style cover on top of it. It does make spring cleanup easier, but the water bags and tarp are a pain. :(

Eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a solid safety cover ($$$$) and do away with the tarp and water bags.