Bonding equipment question

[DennisP]

I am working out all the final electrical details and in regards to bonding I have a good handle on how to handle the pool (above ground, so the stainless panel will be bonded at a nut/bolt fastener with a copper lug, then 3 other places around the pool at the uprights with a nut/bolt fastener and copper lug and all the sections tied together with 8-gauge bare copper bonding wire connected between sections via copper split bolts and finally with a Burndy in-skimmer bonding plate), then the 8-gauge wire will run to the equipment pad where it will connect to the pool pump.

Well, since I added a pool heater to the mix, it is a toss-up if it needs to be bonded, since it is a millivolt heater. Per section 680 it "needs" to be bonded, but per electrical code it does not. Regardless I figure I would bond it just to be safe.

The question I have is, for bonding purposes can you use a self-drilling screw and a copper lug to the case (it is a Jandy Lite 2 old-school unit), or do I have to drill a hole and use a nut/bolt combo like I do with the uprights on the pool?

The heater is constructed almost entirely of self-drilling screws, and from what I can tell on the non-millivolt units that *HAVE* to be bonded, it looks like they just use a self-drilling screw from the factory to a tinned copper bonding lug. I figured I would use the same point on my millivolt heater to bond to, but it just has a stamped hole on the outside of the heater with the internal welded bracing being intact. I am concerned that if I drill it out I won't be able to get at the backside of that location to get a nut on since it is in an inaccessible area of the heater internally.

Honestly, from an electrical sense, the whole bonding aspect is redundent and stupid considering the entire thing is plumbed with black iron pipe all the way to the meter and in the house and I know that pipe is bonded in the house between the electrical panels and the pipe. So it is all "bonded" already, but ideally I am just trying to make sure there isn't any issues during an inspection.

[BigDave]

I disagree that it's stupid and I agree that you should bond the heater. You can't count on the black iron pipe for continuity - and - do you want the gas line in your house carrying current?

The code you have to comply with is not the NEC but whatever codes your municipality has adopted. Can you check with your electrical inspector? I would bet that a stainless screw holding the bonding lug to the heater would pass as long as the lug has a good electrical connection to the heater (no paint under it).

I noticed that you've used split bolts to connect segments of bond wire. This would not pass inspection in my town - our adopted code calls for a single wire or thermally welded. Again check your local enforcement authority.

[DennisP]

Thanks for the reply BigDave.

Yeah, for the local municipality, it is all NEC code... Split bolts are acceptable here.

I went ahead and drilled the hole for a 1/4" stainless bolt and nut with a split washer on the back. I also ground down to bare metal on the back and then touched it up with paint as best I could once it was all bolted together. It will be a solidly bonded once the bonding wire is attached.

I just noticed you are in New Jersey. They seem kinda fascist about their codes there. Are there too many in the trades unemployed or something, or do the inspectors just like lining their pockets?

I just can't believe some of the stuff you guys have to adhere to... I mean thermally welding a 8-gauge copper conductor? C'mon!

I "technically" could run a single strand of copper for my entire bond, but that seems excessive, especially running under a walkway... I guess by you I would have to run that bonding wire in conduit too, eh? ;)

[BigDave]

I'm not sure about fascist - corrupt, maybe. Mechanical connections do fail. I've seen it at my house, a split nut came loose on one leg of my service - really weird having half the house intermittently blink out. The pool bond connections are also likely to be buried in wet conditions which would increase the likelyhood of failure. It really wasn't hard to use a single piece of wire - the only place it's doubled up is where it runs up to the skimmer water bond and back down.

Bond wire in conduit - too funny. Maybe all bond lugs should be electrically isolated because electricity is dangerous when it flows. ;)

[DennisP]

HAH!

Yeah, I have a buddy that lives in NJ and he complains all the time about the politically charged BS (doesn't help that he ran for local office either, since he decided to throw himself into the thick of it that way)...

But, yeah I can see your point, but for me at least, leaving a spool of 250ft of 8-gauge wire outside after I ran the section under the walkway seemed like a really dumb idea... The area I live in is very safe and you could leave your doors unlocked at night (I end up leaving my Lincoln MKS unlocked in the driveway plenty of times), but it still just seems wrong to leave a spool of 8-gauge copper wire just sitting out...

Now, I can just solder a crimp on the end of the wire and pull the spooled wire through, ie use one big uninterrupted run of bonding wire... hmmm... I may have to do that... With some prudent planning I could end up at the skimmer bonding plate with the end so it wouldn't double back... hmmm...

I have no problem with excessive if it can be a managed situation... ;)

[CarlD]

Someone from Wisconsin complaining about NJ being "fascist"? Give me a break! Let's leave politics to political forums and not bring it to our pool forum so we can all stay friends!

In many towns in NJ, many inspectors may well be corrupt, and you need to play the game their way. In my town, luckily (for homeowners, not builders) they are very, very tough and most are very, very honest. But, you again need to play the game THEIR way! And a good thing, too, because I've had the inspector find all kinds of cheats by certain, never-to-be-used-again contractors! Further, when houses are fairly close together, a code violation can affect your neighbors as well. We are the densest-populated state in the nation, having beaten out Delaware some years ago, so I, for one, have NO problem with robust, strong building codes.

Pools and electricity are fundamentally a dangerous combination. That's why I won't use anything but 12volt lighting near the pool, and the pump is, by code, on a GFCI circuit breaker. Remember when, in the pool at his home in Panama, the great Yankee closer, Mariano Rivera, lost a couple of relatives to electrocution?

[DennisP]

CarlD, you really need to read a reply, I said they are fascist about their codes, nothing else... I really don't like people re-interpreting things... I could honestly care less about politics anywhere else but where I live...

And, sorry, the whole code BS is just a lot of that, BS... For safety, ZERO ISSUES! But for profit, screw that...

I mean there is so much stuff that they can be "anal" about that has NOTHING to do with safety... It is all about making a buck...

And, I have zero issues with the "code" being used to weed out bad vs good contractors. I do have an issue when they say something has to be redone only to line the contractors and the municipality/inspectors pockets, as well as a reason to "raise taxes"... All of that is just flat out greed, with no benefit for the homeowner...

Hell, I love it when code changes and you are grandfathered in on something. Safety isn't an issue at all, obviously, since you are grandfathered in, but you change one item associated and ALL of it has to change, and why???

Sorry, too many "standards" idiots looking for a way to control others. I live next to one of those "idiots", he is an engineer that is part of a standards organization. EVERYONE says he is a controlling asshat that makes more problems for people with little in the way of real justifications. He is flat out a control freak. And, living next to him I can concur.

[DennisP]

I forgot to add, that a prime example of how stupid things are, you need a permit to change an outlet??? THAT is laughable!

[CarlD]

I forgot to add, that a prime example of how stupid things are, you need a permit to change an outlet??? THAT is laughable!

THAT I never heard! But you DO need a permit to change out a hot water heater. Not sure I get that, but I had to do it. They added an expansion chambers outlawed saddle valves and changed the grounding wire reqs.

Building permits here have gotten super-expensive--one project it cost $2000! I don't get that either but grumbling about it does no good.

Of course, if you build without a permit, and something happens, your home-owner's insurance company will use that as an excuse not to pay, so you gotta do it.