New Pebble - first tests

[dawndenise]

New owner of first pool: just completed, inground, 17,000 gal, Pebble Sheen finish, dark color. Fill-up complete 6/8, pump and filter operational late in the day 6/8. Will have SWG in a few weeks. Have ordered Ben's kit but have not yet received. All tests done by Wal-Mart HTH drop tests and some done by Leslie's, hoping to check my results. Filter/pump on 24/7. Absolutely no chemicals whatsoever added at start-up.

All Pebble materials indicate I should get pH and alkalinity in balance prior to chlorination.

My tests 6/9: Total Cl 2.0 (test kit only does total)
pH 8.2+
TA 90
Ca hardness 90 (really this low??)
Leslie's test 6/9: Free Cl 1.5
Total Cl 3.0
pH 8.0+
TA 50
No other tests offered, these were all by drops
My test 6/10: Total Cl 1.5
pH 8.2+
TA 80

Water temps are 82 in early AM, 86 at mid-afternoon.

Leslie's recommended adding 15# of Alk Up, even tho it would up my already-high pH, and handling the pH after that. I wasn't convinced so I did nothing.
After today's test, I have more faith in my TA readings than theirs, so am planning on adding a mere 2c of muriatic acid to drop my pH just .2 tonight. Basically, I'm trying to guage my pool's response, so am not trying to correct my pH all at once. I plan on testing daily and will do another calcium test and the first stabilizer test tomorrow.

Water looks very clear, pebbles on bottom highly visible. Water has a greenish cast from the side, but I've heard of lots of Pebble customers having a green-ish color to the finish/water that eventually changes to the true color. We also have a good reflection of some very green trees that could be affecting my impression of water color.

Am I on the right track? I'm concerned about having enough chlorine to keep my pool clean too. Should I be adding bleach?

Thanks for the help.
DD

[dawndenise]

OK, so I have new test results, fresh from the pool. We actually ended up adding only about a cup of muratic acid last night. pH still is 8.2+ but I think the color is closer to 8.2 than it has ever been. When seeing how little our pH dropped, we added about 2cups this AM.

Also bought a smaller test kit from Leslie's so I could get a free chlorine reading rather than just total chlorine in my current kit. So, the new results:

pH 8.2
Cl 1.0 (free less than .5)
TA 70
Hardness (calcium carbonate) 70
Stabilizer less than 30 (30 is last mark on vial going downward, had to add the final bit of solution but it finally did make the dot disappear).

We'll HAVE to add chlorine tonight, right? TA has been drifting down 10 parts each day since fill completed.

I need a plan.

Sandy

[duraleigh]

Hi, Sandy,

Bring your pH down. Sooner rather than later. I think you'll find it will rise on it's own with that new gunite pool...maybe for a few months. I'd shoot for 7.2

That greenish cast in your water might be algae. If it looks greener tomorrow, you'll definitely need to shock. I would put in a gallon of bleach today(should get you to 4ppm) or, if you decide to shock now, 4.5 gallons should get you close to 15ppm.

Thirdly, I would get some baking soda (alkalinity up) at the grocery store and raise your Alk to about 100 or so.....15lbs is convenient (5lb bags) and should get you around 110.

Keep a close eye on your pH.....don't let it get above 7.8 and a little lower would be better.

[cwstnsko]

If you Calcium Hardness really is that low, I'd probably use Calcium Hypochlorite to chlorinate your pool for a while to get the calcium up. With your pH that high, several pounds of baking soda probably won't increase the PH much, but will bring the TA up into the ideal range. I'd use Muratic Acid to bring the PH down, but you might want to get some Calcium and Alkalinity in the water before you drop it too much

[dawndenise]

Thank you, thank you for the info. I don't want an algae problem, so I'd rather just go ahead and shock it - I actually thought one should shock any newly-filled pool anyway. If I add the bleach or calcium hypo to shock tonight, should I see that 15ppm on my morning water test? Or would it have come down by then? What level is swimmable?

Can I add everything into the water tonight? I realize I can't MIX it all up together, but can I treat the water with muriatic acid, baking soda and bleach within, say, an hour?

Thanks again for all your help.
Sandy:)

[duraleigh]

Hi, Sandy,

Spread it out some. I don't think there is a hard rule about time between chemicals but it makes sense to let one get into the sytem, then, the other.

Get your pH down with the acid. Maybe let it circulate a half hour or so and then put in the Cl. Wait maybe another 30 minutes and do the baking soda.

cwstnsko makes a good point about Cal hypo...both to shock and chlorinate. Because you need calcium anyway (which I overlooked) that would be my Cl of choice. Dosage should be on the container.

If that is algae in your water, don't be surprised if most or all of your Cl is gone tomorrow AM. Keep the Cl at shock value 'til the water clears.

[dawndenise]

Thanks again for the info. I just got home from getting bleach and baking soda. I'll use that handy bleach calc, as I need to adjust your 4.5 gallon recommendation a bit since I was able to get 6% bleach rather than the 5.25%. Also came in 182 oz jugs. Anything to make it more difficult, right?

Also noticed at Sam's (where the bleach was) that the Clorox Ultra is a 6% solution and the "regular" bleach packaged the same way in 3-jug boxes, was also 6%. Ingredients on the labels on both kinds were identical - same price. Had I picked up the "regular" bleach without reading the ingredients, I might have put in more chlorine than I wanted.

We'll do some work tonight and see what the tests show tomorrow.

Sandy

[dawndenise]

Re-read your post about the calcium hypo. We'll probably shock with bleach and then try the calcium hypo as more of an ongoing chlorination with frequent testing of that calcium level.

Sandy

[duraleigh]

Sandy,

with a gunite pool, you don't have to be too stingy with the bleach. Might fade a swimsuit if you go in when it's 10+ or so but, other than that, it will ensure you actually reach breakpoint.

4.5 gallons should take your pool to around 16ppm. I would consider that minimum to ensure breakpoint (shock).

Again, it'll disappear almost overnite if you have a lot of organics in there. :)

[dawndenise]

Dave, you were right on. My chlorine has disappeared! We added 3-182oz bottles of 6% bleach late yesterday afternoon (546 oz vs 544 oz in Bleach Calc!). New readings fresh from the pool:

pH 8.2- (rather than +) Total muriatic acid added is 1/2 gallon - we'll do more
Total Cl 0
Free Cl 0
TA 110 (added 10# of baking soda last night)
CYA less than 30 (redid this test, still not really confident in this measure, as the dot disappears(?) when the solution is right at the very, very top of the vial; another drop and it would spill over)
Calcium hardness 70-80

My Cl really "shocked" me, as there was no change in color for either test! Actually called the 800# to see what high chlorine would register on tests that only go up to 5.0 (I was hoping they'd say "clear"). They said I should see an intense orange color if I were holding Cl levels above 5. I can see I need to get a test that can measure high chlorine levels. Whenever Ben's kit arrives, will it register shock levels, I wonder?

So, I'm guessing that I should continue to add Cl to shock levels until it can hold Cl overnight? - seems like I read that somewhere???

Sandy

[Bleach=Chlorine?]

Try to keep testing and adding Cl to the pool morning, noon and night to keep shock level of 15ppm. Also, continue running the filter 24/7.

[duraleigh]

Hi, Sandy,

get that pH down. Use the bleach calc....shoot for 7.2 - 7.4

Ben's kit will measure as much Cl as you'll ever put in the pool....accurately.

If you've used up your bleach, I would buy a tub of Cal Hypo...you need to get your calcium up, too.

Yes, keep your Cl at shock value 'til it virtually stays constant overnight. 18-20 would not be too high in your pool.

One more thing, Sandy.......GET THAT pH DOWN!:) :)

[dawndenise]

OK,OK,OK...now you really think I should bring my pH down???:D :D :D
Actually, I've just added another 1/2 gallon of muriatic and will go back and recheck the actual amount I should add to reduce my pH in a reasonable step, not baby steps. At my current rate, I won't hit target pH until Labor Day. I've added another 546 oz of 6% bleach this AM, even though I know a lot will be used up by the sunlight and rendered less effective by my higher pH.

I'll head out to get some CalHypo today, as it'll only take one more shock treatment to use all the bleach I bought yesterday.

Thanks again for bearing with me.

Sandy

[duraleigh]

Thanks again for bearing with me.

It's always very easy to assist folks who post good test results and don't get too side-tracked with all the "magic bullets" the pool store offers.

[dawndenise]

A mere 5 hours after adding all that bleach and muriatic acid, my chlorine readings (double-checked both total and free) were at 0 again!! Gosh, how much stuff do I have in my pool??? However, my pH had dropped to 7.2.

So even though I added a shock's-worth (546 oz) of 6% bleach in the early morning, I added another 546 oz late in the afternoon. Four hours later, just about dark, I tested and got:
Cl 5+
Free Cl 5+
pH 7.8?? (really hard to get a good read)
Added nothing last night

This morning's readings:
Cl 5+
Free Cl 5+ (it held!)
pH 7.5
TA 80
Calcium hardness 70 (vial started at a light pink rather than the red it has been previously, color turned to a light blue/green after 7 drops, color didn't intensify with more drops)

Pool water decidedly more blue but has had increasing gray cloudiness in last 2 days. Pool is Ocean Blue Pebblesheen which should be a dark but very true blue with no green when fully cured. Clear areas get this gray cloudiness when agitated. Definitely gets stirred up and hazy when I brush.

My plan for the day is to buy some distilled water to see how high my chlorine level really is. My understanding is that I can only use the shot glass method for the total cl (OTO) test, correct? It won't work for the free chlorine test (2 reagents)? Then if I need chlorine, I'll use the CalHypo I got yesterday. Because I wasn't able to accurately test to see if I ever got to 15ppm in chlorine, should I still keep shocking? Shock til the cloudiness disappears? Or does the fact that I was able to keep some chlorine in the pool overnight mean I've killed everything that needed killing and the haziness is just the "dead bodies"?

Thanks for the help.
Sandy

[duraleigh]

Hi, Sandy,

You're making progress but you need to keep your pool at shock level 'til your water looks like you want it.

That cloudiness is dead algae but it's probably not all dead......because your still consuming Cl.

I would recommend you use the color of your water as the bellweather. When it's crystal clear....you're done. More precisely, you're Cl should not drop from shock level more than 1-2ppm overnight.

Test right at dusk and add Cl. Then test first thing next AM to see where you are.

Meantime, let your filter do it's job. Stir up the cloudiness or vacuum it up and let that sand filter clear your pool.

Nice work to this point. May take a while longer but keep the Cl in there and run that pump 24/7, backwashing when necessary.

[dawndenise]

Understood - thanks for keeping me on the right path. I'll see where my true cl level is with the distilled and try to keep it there throughout the day and hope it holds overnight. Just an FYI, if it makes any difference, I have a cartridge filter.

Sandy

[dawndenise]

Yikes :eek: - something's still using up my chlorine. Tested about 1pm, just 4 hours after this AM's tests and now I have no chlorine, pH still holding. No need to try the distilled water method if I have no chlorine by the regular method. So, I'm adding calhypo (HTH Super Shock It) for the first time, a package made for 16,500 gallons. Says it's 62.4% Calcium hypochlorite with 60% available chlorine. I'll test again in a few hours and see what level we have.

My water temps are still holding in the 82 AM -86 PM range, as our air temps have topped out in the upper 90s and low 100s all week.

Sandy

[duraleigh]

Sandy,

Remember the two things that consume Cl...the Sun and "bugs".

With your low CYA reading, I'll bet the Sun got some of that Cl.

Put that Cal Hypo in at dusk and you'll get much more effective use out of it....hide it from the Sun.

As an aside, ask the pool store for a 25 or 50 lb tub of Cal Hypo. You'll save a lot of bucks and I believe you'll use it all this Summer. (you still need to get your calcium up and it will take quite a bit) If you cap it tightly it'll be good next year if you don't use it all.

[dawndenise]

I think a previous post of mine got lost in cyberspace, so I'll recap. My 6PM reading yesterday showed less than .5 total Cl. Added another package of CalHypo (2nd one of the day).

Tested again at about 9PM, Cl 5+, possibly 6
Free Cl 2
Added my 3rd package of CalHypo for overnight. BTW, added water in the pool and cartridge filter was cleaned. City water is considered safe, but its source has an algae issue. That will probably always be the case, according to the newspaper, although some times of the year are worse than others.

This AM, water is clearer, did a full battery of tests:
Cl 5+ looks like 6 on the distilled method
Free 4-5
pH 7.8 (little bugger crept up on me)
TA 80
Hardness 90

Plan for the day is to add muriatic to drop my pH to about 7.5, add baking soda to increase TA again, add CalHypo now and keep retesting.

My entire pool is in full sun from just before 9AM until about 5 when parts start to go in the shade. Although I've used up my stabilizer tests, I know my level is below 30. I question my first test after doing the second. I could have slightly less than 30, I may have none?? Couldn't I at least add enough CYA to raise my level a mere 10ppm safely? Maybe I'd stand a better chance of having my pool hold some chlorine?

I hesitate to buy another kit with stabilizer tests in them because I'll end up with even more tests that I've already duplicated, plus Ben's should arrive sometime in the future, but I guess I'll do what I have to, to know my water.

Sandy

[duraleigh]

Hi, Sandy,

When I add high doses of Cl, I do it at dusk (full shade is pretty good, too). That pretty much eliminates the Sun from robbing your Cl and let's the majority of it work on the bugs. I simply do not add it during the day because the Sun eats it up and I'm cheap.

It would be fine to add CYA but, if you're cleaning your cartridge pretty frequently, you'll wash it out of your filter before it dissolves into your pool. You could certainly put it in a sock and suspend it in the water. If so, I'd put in enough to raise it by 20ppm more.

Since your pH shows a tendency to creep up, I would add enough muriatic to shoot for 7.0 - 7.2........measure accurately. It'll make your Cl that much more effective on the bugs.

Synopsis - keep up the Cl - evening application is most effective - CYA if you choose - bring pH down to the lower range of 7.0-7.2

[dawndenise]

I just realized that my CalHypo may not be shocking my pool as printed on the package. Package states that 1# of 62.4% calcium hypochlorite will shock a 16,500 gallon pool. Package states available chlorine is 60%.

Elsewhere on this forum, I jotted down a conversion of 1-1/2gallons (192 oz)of 5.25% bleach equals 1# of cal hypo. That should have triggered something right there, as there's no way even 1-1/2gals of 6% bleach can shock my pool, so there's no way 1# of cal hypo would either!

Again, elsewhere on this forum I found another ratio: 3cups (24 oz) 5.25% bleach is equivalent to 2cups+5oz (21oz) of 6% bleach in raising 1000 gallons 10ppm in Cl.

If my math holds, that means it takes 168oz of 6% bleach to equal 1# of cal hypo.

My shock level for my pool (17,000 gal) to go to 15ppm from 0 is 546 oz of 6% bleach.
So, again with the math, that would mean I need 3.25# of 65% cal hypo to shock my pool from 0 to 15. No wonder I'm only getting 6s on total chlorine with only 1 1lb package!

Before I start dumping more than 1 package into the pool at a time, could you please check my math and logic on this one?

Sandy

[dawndenise]

First - my bad. The 1# package of 62.4% CalHypo never claimed to shock a 16,500 gallon pool, it was 1 package per 8000 gallons. I got the 16,500 number from my OTHER brand of CalHypo, the 73% brand.

Now for good news. I added about 2# CYA yesterday, half about 1PM, 1/2 about 7PM. The pool actually held some Cl through the sunny day, but still only measured 1 total and less than .5 free at 8PM. At 8PM, added 1# of 73%CalHypo.

Total Cl added yesterday was 1# 62.4% CalHypo in the AM, 546 oz 6% bleach at 1PM, when my test showed 0 Cl, and 1# of 73% CalHypo.


This morning's readings show:
Cl 5+ (10+ on the 2x test, maybe 9 on the 3x test)
Free Cl 5+
pH 7.5
TA 80
CH 110

I think we're getting there. Will add appropriate amt of baking soda to raise TA today, as I didn't do that yesterday - already adding a lot of other stuff. This AM, I've already added my last 1# bag of the 62.4% CalHypo which should get me to the 15-16ppm mark.

I've also ordered stabilizer tests - don't plan on adding any more stabilizer until I can test.

I'm anxious to see if that amount of CYA I added yesterday might help hold chlorine today.

Question on the CH drop test: When I did the test yesterday, the initial color was a light pink, rather than red. Today, it barely looked like a pale pink. Adding drops changed the color, but to a very light green rather than a blue. Results still valid?

Thanks for all the help.
Sandy

[aylad]

The stabilizer you added yesterday probably won't fully dissolve and show up for at least 4-6 days....you need to wait at least that long to test for it again, or adding more.

Janet

[dawndenise]

By the time my tests arrive should be about perfect timing to test this dose of CYA. Thanks for the input.

Sandy:)

[dawndenise]

I'm confused. I'm having a hard time distinguishing mid-vial color changes when I do the 2x and 3x Cl testing. All I know for sure is that my Cl is 5+ and my free Cl is 5+. How long should I keep shocking my pool? Water color is clear, but I can stir up small gray clouds off the wall and floor when I brush. Today is windy and we have all of Lubbock and Amarillo blowing through and landing in my pool so I had some brown dirt clouds while brushing. My PB has yet to install my Polaris.

Yesterday 1PM, Cl 5+, free Cl 5+
Yesterday 7PM, Cl 2 , free 2
Added 1# 73% CalHypo (supposedly a shock level for 16,500 gallons)

This AM: Cl 5+
Free Cl 5+
pH 7.5 or slightly higher
TA 80
CH 110

I haven't added any baking soda in the past few days as I thought I might because right now my pH seems to be relatively stable.

Should I just give the 2x and 3x test results my best guess and treat accordingly to maintain a shock level? I really have no way of knowing if I've attained a shock level for more than a few minutes since we've had the pool.

Thanks for any advice.
Sandy:confused:

[y0manda]

Didnt know it was a good idea to shock a brand new pool heh oh well.