Looking for some feedback, new build

[DennisP]

Hey guys, I am in the process of a complete backyard redo and I am looking for some feedback on some choices...

For starters the pool is a 27ft x 54" Sharkline Morada hybrid pool. Resin lower rails, bottom plates and upper rails, steel wall, posts, top plates and reinforcement ring. It is a used pool, but in good condition.

I bought a new beaded liner, bead receivers, wall foam and adhesive and foam cove. I will be putting down 1.5" foam flooring in lieu of sand (I am erecting the pool on top of 4-6" thick crushed limestone that will be vibratory compacted in 2" lifts, so the entire thing will be very solid and I don't want to deal with the mess with sand).

I also picked up the rest of the equipment needed, which include a new Pentair Dynamo 1.5hp 2-speed pump, Hayward widemouth skimmer, Burndy bonding plate that goes in the skimmer and a Confer 7200 ladder. I also found some great deals on used equipment that is in excellent shape (new or near new) which includes a Sta-Rite System 3 27M120 300sq/ft cartridge filter, Sta-Rite T-210WF 2.18sq/ft 200lb sand filter (backup) and a Jandy Lite2 250k BTU natural gas pool heater.

Now, I plan on using the cartridge filter and running the pump on low-speed pretty much 24 hours. I figure I will set the timer to switch to high-speed for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening.

This is a "unique" install in that I am installing the equipment to an equipment pad at the back of the garage and running PVC underground to the pool 70ft away. This place originally had an in-ground pool and it was pulled 2 days before we looked at the house back in spring of 2012. So I have all the electrical run already and it is much easier (and cleaner overall) to run the equipment at the equipment pad.

So, since I have most of the materials for the project here (including 5400 Holland pavers, 18 yards of crushed limestone and all the pool stuff) so I have started replumbing to the equipment pad. I have disregarded the 5 original 1.5" black poly lines the original pool company installed and put in 3 2" PVC lines.

The original pool had a pressure cleaner and 3/4" black poly line. I don't plan to use it, but that got me thinking and I am wondering if I shouldn't install a 3/4" PVC line to just in case I might want to run a pressure cleaner at some point?

Now, I figure I already have an extra 2" line, using the other two as a suction and return, but since I never plan to replumb back to the equipment pad ever again, I only want to do this once. To say it has been a major PITA is an understatement. I used 3/4"/1"/2" steel pipe with one end cut on a 60 degree angle and knife-edged to drive through not only the clay under the walkway to the equipment pad, but also all the original plumbing lines. Driving another 3/4" line is no big deal (I already had to drive one to add some 3/4" PVC conduit to run some wiring for the outdoor kitchen) as well as 1" for the natural gas lines for the outdoor kitchen as well (I am running to two locations to have options, with both getting 20-amp 120v electrical and the first having 1" gas line and the other 3/4" gas line).

I don't know what the future holds, but I have not counted out the possibility of another in-ground pool at some point, but the 27ft pool and a 1200 sq/ft paver patio will do us just fine for more than a few years... I figure I could always configure 2 of the 2" lines as suction lines (main drain/skimmer) and then use the last 2" line as a return I would just Y-out for returns near the pool if we go that route in the future. I really have no interest in driving the 2" pipe for another 2" PVC line, but a 3/4" line is no big deal. But, if I should reconsider and possibly run another 2" line, I might just have to "suck it up" and do it.

Beyond that I am hoping we get another week and a half with no rain so I can get a skid steer in and get the big stuff done. For now we have rain forecast for 4 days, so that sucks.

Any input or commentary on the rest of the project is welcome as well.

[BigDave]

Are you going to put a main drain in the AG(code probably requires two)? I kinda wish I had one. Also wish I had two returns. One skimmer seems to work fine. 2" pipe makes sense for the long run but you could certainly Tee to 1.5" for main drains and returns close to the pool.

[DennisP]

Yeah, looked into it briefly and yeah, if you put in a main drain it is just "safe" to run two of them...

But, yeah, I considered a couple of main drains, two returns and a single skimmer... Like you said I could always run multiples by teeing off at the pool itself...

So when I plumbed the equipment pad I have an extra line available for feeds and figure a single for returns is ideal...

So, if I put multiple returns in, how far apart should they be? I don't think they would need to be 180 degrees out from one another on a round pool...

I just got done with the plumbing... What a royal PITA... I only had a couple of tricky locations to really "work the angles" so to speak...

I did use a Jandy 3-way valve for heater select/bypass and Jandy check-valve by the filter, and for the heater back-flow I just used a gravity-based flap valve... I have a ball valve on the other side of it, so that I can positively shut-off the connection for servicing the heater.

I am sure if I did this kind of plumbing all the time it would have gone faster... I do now know why the pool builders use 1.5" PVC over 2"... It makes quite a bit of difference in pressure to hold 2" pipe into fittings compared to 1.5"... Enough to make me prefer working with 1.5" if possible... ;)

But, now that all of that is done I can focus on everything else... I forgot to add-in the 2" ball valves for isolating the pad equipment, so once I add those in I will take some pics and post them...

[CarlD]

Just a comment from someone who's not THAT knowledgeable about "feet of head" and all that stuff:
It seems to me that running 70' underground two ways from the pool to the pump would really increase the resistance to flow and 2" PVC would relieve that having nearly double the cross-sectional area over 1.5" PVC.

[BigDave]

... So, if I put multiple returns in, how far apart should they be? ...I think the law is three feet. Four or five feet would be safe. The idea is to prevent entrapment - so, far enough that one person can't cover both at the same time.

[DennisP]

I think the law is three feet. Four or five feet would be safe. The idea is to prevent entrapment - so, far enough that one person can't cover both at the same time.

No, I meant eyeball returns, not drains...

Yeah, I looked up the national code on the drains... Five feet are the preferred spacing, so for the dual main drains 5 feet it is...

I will be adding dual drains... Ordered everything up today that needed to be and bought the rest of the SCH40 2" fittings locally... I am putting in dual 2" main drains teed into a single 2" line... Since everything else is 2", why go with 1.5" on anything is my thought...

Also, I will be hardpiping them with 2" SCH40 PVC just like everything else... I figure why use flex PVC underground since there are always concerns about leaks and issues over time... seems like properly run and solvent-welded SCH40 PVC or even black poly tubing are the preffered methods...

I also figure the hardline with the tee in it will afford for a more solid mounting of the drains... I don't think I really want to mess with using concrete to set them... I figure I will mount them about 1/2" down from the top of the 1.5" foam floor and compress the foam around them so that it kinda funnels down to the drains... That way the kids will be less likely to mess with where the vinyl connects to the drain top... I also hope the foam coupled with the hardline piping should make them pretty stable long-term...

[BigDave]

No, I meant eyeball returns, not drains...My bad. Sorry. Doh!


... Since everything else is 2", why go with 1.5" on anything is my thought...As you point out 1.5" is easier to assemble, fittings are cheaper, 2 x 1.5" has about the same cross section area as 1 x 2". OTOH no reason not to build it with 2".

[DennisP]

Well, as it stands all the "help" I should have had in regards to equipment and operators has been a major disappointment all summer... Right now I should have two options for skid steers for the weekend and if both fall through I am almost ready to throw in the towel for this year...

I just don't know if a mound of 18yards of crushed limestone 5ft tall will be viable over winter??? (it is covered in a huge tarp with a bunch of pavers holding the edge down, so I know it will stay covered, I just don't know how much of it will solidify over the winter with moisture and stuff)

Even if I could get it spread out and compacted, I am seriously running out of time with this coming Saturday as the *last* really warm day of the summer here, and the last chance I have to get the pool up and the liner in with any decent heat!

If it doesn't happen this coming weekend, the most it would be would seem to be low 70s... Even with sun I am concerned it won't make the liner workable enough...

If not, then I am almost at the point of saying screw it for this year, look into an in-ground setup for spring (either a Radiant installed in-ground, a DIY kit with steel sides and vinyl liner, or a complete fiberglass DIY setup), since we haven't done anything on-site and I figure the biggest part would be hiring someone to excavate out the old pool area and then engineer the new pool install... All of the equipment pad and everything else is already done, so really there is no electrical outside of bonding, and it would just be a matter of "all at once" doing everything else to get it knocked out ASAP come spring...

So, we will see what the rest of the week brings... I am finishing up the additional valve for the main drains at the pad this week, which should allow me to fill all the rest there in at least, as well as possibly doing the rest of the trenching manually to run the PVC and gas pipe out to the final locations in the yard since we are going to be having some rain so digging the clay we have here should be pretty easy... But beyond that I still have to wait and see...

[CarlD]

Why wouldn't the crushed limestone be fine come spring? I've had base sand sit all winter under a tarp and it was fine. It's probably not a good idea to install a liner this late in the season--you'll just lose a year of it's life for nothing. I'm planning on replacing mine after this season, but I'm not installing it until the spring. I want to get the other work out of the way, first.

[DennisP]

Yeah, I thought about the same thing, but it is a used pool anyways, so if I get two years out of it (say three winters) I will be happy... Since then I will just plan on replacing it with a same size, newer pool...

It is a new liner, a new ladder, newer equipment, etc... The pool itself is maybe 4-5 years old, but in really good shape, but not perfect...

I was just shocked that Wilbar won't sell touchup paint for the uprights... They want you to buy all new uprights... Crazy...

But, yeah, if we really like the Morada RTR (what we have) we may just replace it with another one if I can get it... If not I may go for an all resin pool so I have the option of going saltwater if I want, but will be doing the BBB method with a planned upgrade to a peristaltic pump and liquid chlorine injection next year...

[CarlD]

ANY chlorine system can work with the BBB method!

[DennisP]

Well, we got started as of yesterday... Everyone around here has been busting their butts getting stuff done...

Basically got the circle for the pool and walkway around it dug out yesterday... The guy working the skid steer is awesome, basically got it within a half inch everywhere... amazing really...

Then he came back with an excavator today and trenched for the PVC plumbing and the gas lines for the outdoor kitchen and oven areas... Only clipped the cable line and a power wire for the back lights/outlet... The cable line was a simple splice and fix and I found both ends of the power wire so that should be a simple splice as well...

Pulled out a "weed tree" that was out of place and overgrown, two burning bushes that someone poisoned before I bought the house, and another burning bush got clipped by the excavator and lost about half of it, so that one might have to come out... I actually have to check and see if I am just going to end up removing all the burning bushes and replace them altogether, otherwise it might look bad to just replace the dead ones and broken one...

Looks like some rain is coming, but I just heard I should have good enough weather to get the plumbing finished tomorrow morning and the trenches filled back in...

We will have to see if the weather will hold out and if I get some sun to put the pool up... Would really suck to go through all of this and have no pool up this year... Regardless if it would be only able to be used for a week or so, it would be enough to validate all the hard work for the kids...

[BigDave]

Good Luck!

[DennisP]

Good Luck!

Thanks!

Well, we got the rest of the gas line run as well as the electrical for the outdoor kitchen/oven areas, all before the heavy rain moved in...

So, I am just idling until things dry out here... When I can start back up I will finish off the pool plumbing and then get all of that filled back in fully and then I can actually consider putting the pool up once I get some of the crushed stone put down and compacted...

[DennisP]

Well, got another day down...

Got the rest of the plumbing for the pool done, all the lines tested and all the trenches filled in...

Depending on the weather it looks like tomorrow is final leveling, traffic bond, compacting, more traffic bond, more leveling, making sure everything is totally true and then the pool goes up...

But, again, depending on weather we may have to put it off until Sunday... Either way looks like the pool will be up and filled this weekend... At least the pool filling line I installed will work better than the hose, so the pool should fill quicker overall...

I will say, with the system test today that I am really glad I installed the pool heater, as it works great...

[DennisP]

Well, no such luck on more construction on the project... We got a ton more rain last night than expected and it was a complete mess today...

I did get the diverter valve for the skimmer/main drains done and in along with completing the bonding of the pump and heater, so the whole area at the equipment pad can be filled in and called done...

If I had to do it again, knowing now how much work it was to do the equipment the way I did, it was just a ton of work, I don't know if I would have decided to go this route or not... For my setup I don't think I would have wanted the heater out by the pool, so overall I still think this was the way to go... Just a lot of work to get it done... My arms/shoulders/wrists all hurt like heck from jamming PVC solvent connections tight as well as tightening and loosening 2" unions and 2" threaded PVC connections as well as gas lines...

Since we are getting rain for the next few days I get to take some time off and get other stuff done (like cleaning up tools)... I did plan out all the plumbing at the pool, so I have all the fittings and just need to cut piping for connection to the main drains, the skimmer and the returns...

Oh, I will say, regardless how "cheap" PVC seems... At the scale for a complete pool like this it is still an expensive proposition... I am finally "done" buying stuff I believe... Nothing like the kick in the butt you get when you have the last 2 or 3 "last trips" to the hardware store to buy final fittings and stuff... :P

[DennisP]

Well, got lucky and got about 2/3 the crushed limestone down for the pool and walkway around it...

I just pulled the tarp and am hoping we can get the remainder of the pool area done today...

If so, then I might have a chance in the next two days of putting the pool up... we shall see... Even though I am of the mind it might just be better to wait until next spring...

[DennisP]

Well, got 92-95% of the pool area done... some areas were about 6" of crushed limestone fill.

I will say, the pipes for the pool seem like they are set in concrete the stuff has compacted so solid.

Tomorrow morning I will finish off the last little area, pull the forms, fill them in, compact them, then go around and add a little crushed limestone on top of everything (like 1/4 to 3/8 inch total), level it all, then go hrough and hand compact it all and I should be set to put the pool up...

I did notice I totally forgot to run any sort of wiring for a set of pool lights, but I figure I can dig a channel in the crushed limestone and run the cable in there... I will be using low-voltage pool lighting in any case, so I won't have any real depth issues to worry about...

Also bonding the pool all aorund it should go pretty easy considering I will just need to dig a 2" deep channel in the crushed limestone for the bonding wire to sit in since I will have over 2" of pavers sitting above that point as a walkway around the pool...

[DennisP]

Well, turns out I got the entire pool area prepped today... Got it leveled out, reskreeded, tamped, pulled the forms, filled and tamped those, etc, etc...

Here is the pool area in all it's glory, ready for a pool to be built:

http://www.darklogic.net/P1020578.JPG

Now, to see if I can get a pool up and start being filled within 12 hours... Sounds like a lot of time, but I have to install a main drain, get the foam bottom cut, apply the foam to the walls, etc...

I am going not going to worry about the plumbing from the piping to the skimmer/return/main drain until after the pool is up and being filled...