Just Embarking on the BBB Method - Help Needed

[CoffeeBean]

Hi,

I took the cover off our 16,000+ gal AG last weekend and discovered sludge. I posted a few days ago on the Algae thread and am now getting that under control after dumping 9 gal of bleach into the pool.

My test #s (Ben's 233) on the 7th showed zero CL at all, a pH of 7.2, ALK - 80, CAL 120, CYA -also zero. Then the bleach dump.

Today I got:

FC - 11.5
CC - 0
TC - 11.5
pH 6.8!
Alk - 80
Cya - 0

I know I need to add 20 Mule team. I saw on another thread (from CarlD) to add a whole box and wait 6 hours and test again but what then? How much to add in increments to raise the pH .2?

Do I need to add any CYA at this point or just wait for the CL to start dropping?

I'm vacuuming out the dead algae bodies but the sides of the vinyl are still green/brown all the way down to the bottom. What can I do to get rid of that? I tried a scrubbee from the deck and it doesn't remove much. It was that way before I added the bleach.

Thanks for the help.

CoffeeBean

[JohnT]

Be sure that your pH test is valid at that chlorine level before adding anything. Some don't give accurate readings at higher levels of chlorine.

[CoffeeBean]

Humm. If I'm using Ben's kit why wouldn't it be valid?

C-Bean

[CToon]

Hi Coffeebean

I would use a brush to knock off all of the algea and wait for it to settle before vaccuming ( a soft bristle push broom works too ) . I have good results keeping the ALK in the 100-120 range , so I would say put some baking soda in first to get the alk up. It will raise the ph slightly too , so you might not need as much borax.

I dont have a link for it , but Mwsmiths bleach calculator is awesome. you can use it to figure out quantities of everything..

Lastly , the cya can be adjusted after everything else is in order.. the bleach calculator will tell you how much to use.

[CoffeeBean]

Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I've tried brushing it off and it's not coming off. Hopefully when I get the pH balanced that might help?

I looked at Michael's formula but it asks for liters (I guess since it has an L) not gal and it want's to know another fact that I can't remember at the moment that I never seem to know either.

If I'm using the BBB method, where do I get the CYA? At a pool store? And do I ask for cyanuric acid or some brand name?

Thanks.

CoffeeBean

[tundraSQ]

Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I've tried brushing it off and it's not coming off. Hopefully when I get the pH balanced that might help?

I looked at Michael's formula but it asks for liters (I guess since it has an L) not gal and it want's to know another fact that I can't remember at the moment that I never seem to know either.

If I'm using the BBB method, where do I get the CYA? At a pool store? And do I ask for cyanuric acid or some brand name?

Thanks.

CoffeeBean


ask for stabilizer (so as not to confuse the counter person)...but read the label to make sure it contains CYA. you wil want to start with 3 lbs.

[CToon]

To change from liter to gallon on the Bleach Calculator , click on settings, plug in default volume and bleach value, click imperial, save and close

[mbar]

The stains that are there are probably from the algae and are organic. As your water circulates with the high chlorine the stains should fade. If they don't, let us know.

[sevver]

To change from liter to gallon on the Bleach Calculator , click on settings, plug in default volume and bleach value, click imperial, save and close
Thank god! I have been googling conversions for everything, and was about to look for a measuring cup in metric. :D

[CoffeeBean]

Thanks for the hints for using the bleach calc in gallons!

Today the water is sparkling clear!! but the walls are still green/brown.

About an hour ago my #s were:

FC - 4.5 (down from 11.5 yesterday. Wow, it goes fast!)
CC - 0
TC - 4.5
pH - 7.5 (up from 6.8 yesterday after adding 4#, 76 oz of 20 Mule Team)
ALK - 90 (up from 80 yesterday)
Cal - 140 (up from 120 on 6/7)

I know I need stabilizer. Tundra you said start with 3 #s. That still right?

Should I put that in before adding more Chlorine or after?

You guys are life savers - or at least sanity savers.

CoffeeBean

[Watermom]

You will need some stabilizer, but in a 16,000 gallon pool, I'd start with 4 lbs. which should get you around 30ppm. You may decide later to bump it up to 40 or 50, but 30 is a good starting place.

Try and sustain your shock level for your chlorine by testing 2 or even 3(better!) times a day and each time shock it back up. If you let the cl level yo-yo up and down, you'll never clear the pool.

However, I wouldn't add it just yet. I would wait until you take care of the algae problem.

[CoffeeBean]

Thanks Watermom,

Shock level - is that around 15ppm? I seem to recall reading that somewhere on the forum.

There is so much info on the forum that my brain gets full and then I can't find what I need later.

You said "I would wait until you take care of the algae problem." Are you saying (I hope) that by keeping the CL up to shock levels the junk on the pool sides should disappear or are you saying that even though the water is clear I still have an algae problem?

CBean

[Watermom]

For a pool with a cya reading of 0, shock would be up to 10ppm. Just now reread more carefully through this thread. I agree with Marie, that hopefully with a few more days of high cl, the stains on the wall will fade. If it were my pool, I'd keep the cl around 10 for a few days longer and then I'd go ahead and add the stabilizer.

[CoffeeBean]

Thanks for the advice.

I need to add more CL tonight. It dropped again. My pH is holding at 7.5. The ALK is climbing - 100 to last night's 90, but the CAL dropped from 140 to 130.

I've tried to glean "optimal" values from the forum and think I have them. Could someone let me know if I'm about right for using the BBB method?

"Optimal" values for vinyl liners
FC - 1-3ppm
pH 7.2-7.6
ALK - 80-120
Cal - 200-350
CYA - 30-60

I would like to turn the heater on for a while once I get things settled. It's a tad chilly in there. I'm afraid if I do it now, that green/brown stuff will "cook" onto the sides.

At what point in the chemistry can I safely let the kids in?

CoffeeBean

[mbar]

Just keep up with the bleach - the warmer water won't cook the stains on the sides - they will fade with the high chlorine and time.

Your optimal values are pretty close, but with cya at 30 to 50 you need your chlorine between 3ppm and 6ppms shock would be at 15ppms.

You don't need calcium in a vinyl liner, but if you have a heater a level of 125 would be enough.

All others are fine.

[CoffeeBean]

I'm working on keeping the CL up. I'm having trouble keeping the CL it up to 10.

I'm beginning to think that my pool has more than 16,000 gal. I have never been able to get a straight answer from any source as to its true capacity. Since it has a deep end, computing the capacity isn't a straightforward event. I tried the other night to separate the deep pit from the overall pool and got over 17,000 gals. That affects how much CL and stuff I add.

How much longer should I keep the levels at shock value? It's been a week now since I opened and started cleaning the water.

Should I wait until the CL drops to the 1-3 range before letting the kids in?

Thanks for all the support.

CoffeeBean

[mammallama]

Here's the formula for calculating volume of water in your pool (with varying depth):

If the pool floor slopes uniformly from end to end, the average depth can be found by adding the deepest and shallowest depth measurements and dividing the results by two. If the pool's dimensions are in feet, the volume will be in cubic feet. One cubic foot of water equals 7.5 gallons.

Example: The water volume of a pool 60 ft. long, 30 ft. wide and that slopes in depth from 3 ft. to 10 ft. is as follows:30 x 60 x ((10 + 3)/2) = 11,700 cubic ft. of water11,700 x 7.5 = 87,750 gallons

[mbar]

You should keep your pool at shock untill you maintain the level overnight. To clear your pool you will have to take your chlorine up to shock, and leave it there testing often. It won't clear until you kill all of the algae. You can swim with chlorine at 15ppms, it won't hurt you, it may fade some swimming suits though. But if you have combined chlorine, I wouldn't let them swim.

[CoffeeBean]

Mammallama,

Thanks for the formula. The problem I've run into is that it *doesn't* slope uniformly. About half way down the length the middle starts to slope down but the edges - about 18" out from the pool walls - remain at the same "elevation" as the shallow end. I've tried measuring the depression and subtracting it from the volume as if it was a standard 52" 16X32. It's certainly not scientific. I'm still waiting to hear from Doughboy.

Mbar,

Thanks for the advice. So far I have no combined cl. I'll see what the morning brings for TC. The kids have been drooling over the pool since the sludge cleared up. I haven't even dropped the ladder for fear they'd get into it. The walls are still green/brown but, unless I'm just deluding myself, I think it's a little lighter than it originally was.

I ordered some chem refills from Ben. Hope they get here soon. My Cl powder is grey and it says to replace when that happens.

Coffeebean