Solar Heater, Brand, Cost and Hookup

[eblade21]

Hi all

As i continue to make paradise in my backyard with my summer escapes pro series 14' x 42". Now I am shopping for a solar heater.
Here are my intentions, my pool has made a home 4' from my garage and my garage is 8 ft high. I like to mount the solar panels (or recommended product) on the roof. I am using a Intex sand filter pump model # 28645EG here the specs and a Intex SWCG.

Pump Motor - .5 HP
Pump Flow Rate - 2100 gph (7.9 m3/hr)
System Flow Rate - 1600 gph (6.0 m3/hr)

I was also thinking of running a separate pump (which is the leftover summer escapes pump) to a sprinkler set up from the solar panel instead of taking away anything from the intex pump, i know i would have to tee the supply line with a bypass valve.

I was thinking of the following http://www.solardirect.com/pool_heaters/above_ground_solar_pool_heating/ecosaver.html

Please assist i can really use everyone input.

Thank you in advance
Eddie


On another note why can't intex make their electric heater for the USA, they only offer it for Europe.

[BigDave]

Sounds like it should work. One caution, the pump may not ba able to generate enough head to get the water to the roof. Can you rig a garden hose to the ouput of the S.E. pump? Get water pumping through the hose then lift the open end to above the mount height of the panels.

[eblade21]

BigDave
Your always here to the rescue

I can mount the the pump on the roof,

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/Untitled_zps3b91789c.jpg

Please look at the diagram and advise if this how you like me to hook it up, as far as the garden hose are you referring to supply my own water flow to the pump, then the diagram wouldnt work

[BigDave]

It's far more likely that the pump would be able to push the water up than pull it up. I wouldn't even try to put the pump up high.

I didn't mean that the garden hose should be used for the solar panels but to test if the pump can push the water up to the roof.

Perhaps both pumps in series would help. Install a T after the filter with one leg going to the pump for the solar loop and the other back to the pool.
Install a valve between the T and the pool to shunt all the water to the solar pump when it's closed.
Install another T between the valve and the pool and use this to return the heated water to the pool.

Also your picture shows water entering at the top of the panel, it should enter at the bottom and leave the top so as to push the air out of the panel as it fills.

Consider how to winterize the panel as well. Are you going to remove it? If not, it'll have to be drained and dried and so will the piping.

If you mount it to the roof with screws, put in the screw, then remove it and fill the hole with roof sealant, then put it back in. Maybe even cover the head of the screw with sealant unless you're going to remove the panel. If youre going to remove the panel, you'll need to leave the screws in so the roof won't leak.

[eblade21]

Big Dave,

Makes sense to run the S.E. Pump in series after the intex pump and before the SWCG. The T fitting make a lot of sense. As far as mounting the solar panel, I will probably stick to draining all the lines via adjustable pressure compressor like sprinkler lines.

Any company or brand you might recommend for a solar kit so many bad reviews or just not enough reviews? I would love an electric heater, but i do not know of any companies that offer such a heater for such a small pool. Bestway, Intex make electric heaters but only available in Europe.

[eblade21]

Big Dave

First i will try to run the pump separate without the t fitting according to the garden hose method, the S.E. Pump is a 1000 GPH pump.

[BigDave]

It sounds like we may still be misunderstanding each other - sorry. I only discussed the garden hose as a means to test whether or not the pump would be able to push water all the way up to the roof.

I'd plumb the entire solar loop after the SWCG. You may also face a challenge with the SWCG, it probably requires a minimum flow or pressure to work.

[eblade21]

BigDave

No need to apologize, you have been such a great help and informational teacher. I have been looking to scrap the idea of a solar heater for my pool and looking into an electric heater, cost will be more but i think it will be more effective. I been searching for a heater, from reading most information i see i will need probably a 5.5kw heater for about a 3600 gallon pool. I came across this little heater which is pretty unique http://www.waveheater.com/. I have read also spa heater are no safe or recommend for a pool.

Please Please Please give me some light on electric heater, for my size pool.

[BigDave]

That is scary. I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

I know that Long Island has some of the highest electric rates in the country - Have you figured the cost to operate? The electrician to install your new 30Amp 240V GFCI won't be free either.

[Waldog]

I looked at that thing... $500!!?!?!?! The pool didn't cost that much!!! No way... and it's 220-240V!!! WHAT!?

IMHO... I smell SPAM... Just sayin'...

[eblade21]

BigDave

Your too funny!!!!!!!!!!!

I know my electric bill will be higher, the electrician will just cost me part no labor maybe lunch and he is a Local 3 union electrician.

Are there any electric heaters you might recommend or just don't scrap the solar idea? If you like the idea of solar do you recommend any company solar heaters?

[BigDave]

...Your too funny!!!!!!!!!!!Not trying to be.




... cost me part no labor maybe lunch and he is a Local 3 union electrician ... Local 3, does he work under someone else's license? Who's going to sign your permit? Has he worked on pool electric before? Does he know local code as regards pools?

Pool electric is different and dangerous. Please don't put your family at risk.

[eblade21]

No I work with his company, his company does all my electric work, he done tons of inground pools in nassau county, and he aware of all local codes in nassau county.

[eblade21]

Big Dave

I will going back to solar kit for my pool, can you please provide some good kits i should purchase.

[BigDave]

Glad to hear your electrician is qualified. Sorry but it sounded like "My buddy ccan do it for a case of Bud" and , well, caution is advised.

I don't know anything about the market for solar kits; I had my solar system installed by a company that specializes in solar energy systems. My panels are Solar Industries, I also recall positive comments about Fafco panels.

[eblade21]

BigDave

I am a facilities manager, so i know alot of people in the industry in regards to construction, electricians and plumbing ETC ETC. I will look into the solar industries and Fafco panels. I will keep you posted

[Watermom]

I have a FAFCO Solar Bear panel.

[eblade21]

Watermom

LMAO

[Watermom]

Watermom

LMAO
Why? That really is the name of it.

[eblade21]

Sorry about that wrong thread

[Watermom]

No problem. ;)

[Waldog]

I still say... SPAM....

[eblade21]

I meant to send (LMAO) to Waldog.

Why is my name come up that i cant be trusted?

[eblade21]

Big Dave

Would you recommend this setup?
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/solarpanelsetup_zps9d55fe13.jpg

[BigDave]

I'm suggesting more like the following:
pool
|
New Pump
|
New Filter
|
SWCG
|
Tee-->To Solar Loop (below)
|
Valve
|
Tee<--From Solar Loop
|
Pool

Solar Loop:
Tee (To)
|
Solar Loop Pump (ground level)
|
Panels on roof
|
Tee (From)

I also suggest you to test the pump or pump combo to be sure you can pump water up to the roof.

[eblade21]

Hi all

I need some help of course if no one minds here is where I am currently I just purchased one of those dome panels and bypass kit, before my decision I decided to monitor my back yard and see where can lay this on the floor where I can receive all the sun rays thru out the day, I sat outside all day from sunrise to sunset. I luckily found a perfect location right next to my pool but completely opposite of my sand pump. I like to stay with my screw type connections of 1.5 inch hoses. I also purchased a 16 mil clear solar cover to assist in maintaing the heat in.

I like to connect the panel in this manner:

Pool
|
Sand pump
|
Bypass valve
| |
Solar in Tee
| |
Solar out SWCG
|
Pool

I'll explain from the pool to my sand filter pump I will connect the bypass valve one leg will go to the solar panel feed one leg will go to another tee from that tee one leg will go to the solar out supply and one leg to the SWCG from there returned to the pool.

1.Do you feel this will work?
2.Do you feel using one panel do I need a bypass valve? I like the idea because in the early afternoon I can run my pump just filtering the water and the solar heater, and at night I can run my pump with the SWCG without the solar heater?
3.If you scroll to the beginning of the thread you see my current pump specs, will this be enough to travel around the other side of the pool figure about an additional 10 ft of hose?
4.If I just use the bypass valve after the filter, can I use just a sprinkler set up coming out of the solar dome? Which I wouldn't have to run a hose back to the return just right out of the dome to a PVC sprinkler?


I also thought of buying a separate pump like one of those intex 637r just to run the solar dome heater? Your thoughts.

Everyone here has made my pool breathtaking and beside a light all that left is heat, I like to extend to at least to the end of September that why I decided on a pool solar heater.

I am really sorry for all the questions, sorry for being all over the place thank you for all your help

Eddie

[BigDave]

That eliminates the static head of putting the solar collector on the garage roof. I don't think 10" of extra hose will be a problem. I'm not following the line diagram. Is the bypass valve a three-way valve? Where do the solar line and bypass line rejoin?

[eblade21]

Big Dave

Thank you for the response I have attached a diagram on 2 options, Please feel free to add and comment, i like the best choice from the professional like yourself.

One more question should i stay with 1.5 inch hoses or drop to 1.25 inch hoses?

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/SolarOption1_zps628d4d92.jpg


http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/SolarOption2_zps58f25007.jpg

[BigDave]

Option 1 looks good. I don't really get option 2. Why a sprinkler? I seems to me that would cool the water you just heated.

If you can keep it 1.5" you'll have better flow.

I am not a pro. Please understand, my advice is only that of a fellow residential pool owner. But thanks, I'm flattered.

[eblade21]

BigDave

I considered option 2 for the simple reason to just have the sprinkler effect. I do understand it would cool the water, but in theory if there is warm water in the dome it would it still cool the water? Another option was to add a another diverter (return valve) to the pool instead of the sprinkler.

I feel option 1 is better they designed the system like that so i assume that would be the perfect setup.

The next mission is to find fittings to adapt screw-in hoses I really hate screw clamps, they rust and actually look horrible after a while. I found fitting to screw into the 3 way valve and the tee, but now i need fittings to screw into the inex hoses. I want to keep the intex hose type to screw into everything.

Thanks you Big Dave.

[eblade21]

Big Dave

Quick question

When I use option 1, should I install the tee after the SWCG to prevent the warm water from going thru the SWCG? I was also thinking of eliminating the tee and add a second 3 way valve? What do you think?

Thank you
Eddie

[BigDave]

I think Tee would be better, no reason to risk shutting it off on accident. I don't see any reason not to pass the solar heated water through the SWCG. It's shouldn't get any kind of "Hot".

[eblade21]

BigDave

Over the weekend i installed my solar heater, and i must say i wasn't disappointed at all, on a pretty somewhat sunny day it raised the water temperature from 75 to 81 which i expect to raise a bit more if the sun is completely out all day.

I like to verify some things with the unit i purchased:
1. The instructions said to install a reducer which is included with the kit on the feed side of the solar heater?
2. The instructions said to set the bypass valve between 1 and 2 so the feed to the solar heater is at half pressure?
3. Not part of the instructions but i installed a check valve on the feed side between the pump and the solar heater?

What do you think?

I have included some pictures of the work completed, sorry for the landscaping waiting on the in law to plant some trees.

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/Solarheater1_zps1925b24e.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/SalarHeater2_zps59964964.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/SolarHeater3_zps9a8d53a4.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/Solarheater4_zps91d52e17.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/SolarHeater5_zps343ca65a.jpg

[BigDave]

I think I'm surprized. How did you measure the temperature boost? Temperature of the pool water - morning to afternoon?

Was the 3-way valve in that position during the heating period? I ask because from what I can see if that's a spring check and the pump output is pressurizing both sides of the solar bubble, I can't see what would lift the check.

[eblade21]

BigDave

Honestly i just sat there and monitored with a thermometer digital and mercury style. As far as the check valve it is not spring loaded, it prevents it closes when the water returns back on the feed side, i was thinking this would help. The 3 way valve was set in that position between one and two.

The check valve is installed on the feed side of the solar heater between the filter and the solar heater not on the return side of the solar heater to SWCG. You can see pic 1, looks like a small space ship

Did i do something wrong?

[BigDave]

Nothing wrong. I assumed it was a spring check to control the pressure going into the solar dome. What I do see is that with the 3-way set to allow flow to both the dome inlet and outlet that the pressure on both sides of the dome would be equal and the flow would be from filter to SWG to pool just bypassing the (pressurized) solar dome. I may be missing something.

[eblade21]

BigDave

I'm sorry, yes the bypass valve was set there but that was just to take pictures.

Otherwise it set between 1 & 2 which allows half feed to solar heater and full feed to tee, is this correct, after thinking about it and speaking to you it doesn't seem right.

Here is a link to the manual.

http://www.poolmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/59025_SolarHeater_Instructions_2013_10-4-2012.pdf

Please advise if I should change my connections?

[BigDave]

You have the connections the same but in the book the bypass line would provide alot more resistance to the flow than the short piece of smooth pipe in your setup. That said, I doubt your pump is more than 1/3 HP and if it's not, you can safely run the entire flow through the solar by turning the bypass valve to position 3 blocking the bypass pipe.

[eblade21]

Big Dave

Thank you, my pump is a 1/2 HP intex sand filter pump. Now that you mentioned it it does make sense to shut the bypass and run thru the heater back into the pool. I was scared of the pump size to blow the solar heater or cause more problems.

What can i do to rectify this, should i connect this in a different manner or keep this the same?

[BigDave]

If the pump is 1/2 HP (surprising , but OK) then, by the book, you shouldn't put all the flow (pressure) through the solar dome. Without a pressure gauge (or limit), I suppose you should play with all the available bypass valve settings except "all solar" to find the greatest heat input to the pool throughout the day. I know, hard to do.

[eblade21]

Big Dave

According to my manual and the website I purchased the unit from here are the specs of my pump

Intex sand filter pump model # 28645EG

Pump Motor - .5 HP
Pump Flow Rate - 2100 gph (7.9 m3/hr)
System Flow Rate - 1600 gph (6.0 m3/hr)

Please understand I never doubt your knowledge I understand exactly what your stating maybe I am wrong, which won't be a surprise. I will review my findings via google, but please remember I trust your knowledge I only be doing this a couple of month where you been doing this for years along with everyone here.

For the record I wouldn't have been so successful in my pool without your knowledge and everyone else's.

Please let me know if I should pipe this differently?

[BigDave]

I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong. I believe you. I'm just surprised that it's rated that high. I'm also surprized it's rated in horsepower and not just GPH. Compare it to a 1/2HP Hayward Superpump which is rated for 48GPM(2880GPH) into 20' head or the 1/2HP Hayward PowerFlowII which is rated for 45GPM(2640GPH) into 20' of head. It would be interesting to learn just how much head pressure is figured into System Flow Rate.

Anyway. The solar dome you have may be rated for the Intex pump market or for the traditional market. I don't know. So, to maintain compliance with the instructions, always leave the bypass link open.

[CarlD]

Just my 2¢:

Remember that the temperature of the water in the heater isn't what's going to heat your pool, it's the throughput of water warmer than the pool that does it. The more water you can get through your heater, the faster your pool will warm up, even if the heater water is only 1 degree warmer. BTUs/KCalories are what you need, not temperature. The limiting factor of how much water you push through your solar system should be the maximum gpm system can stand without leaking or the pump's maximum GPM, whichever is lower.

[eblade21]

CarlD

Absolutely understand, and Big Dave and yourself make perfect sense.

I have decided to to run my solar heater on a totally separate pump, which I am modifying this weekend. I feel I can run the heater totally separate from my sand pump will make better sense and do not have to worry about 3 way valves. With that i will eliminate the check valve and add another return to the pool.

Will supply pictures this weekend and advise how it went.

[CarlD]

I'd use a really small pump to save elec. W/o a filter it will movw a lot of water.

[eblade21]

Hi all

I visited this last year and wanted to follow and advise what i have decided. Since we last spoke i ordered Sungrabber (FAFCO) Solar collector 2 x 2' by 12', these are being mounted on the roof facing south. I also ordered a Aqua Solar GL-235 controller. In the meantime i added a separate filter pump 1/2 HP 2500 GPH pump I have included some pictures. I also started the hard plumb, I also added a sprinkler to cool down the water on hot hot summer days.

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/Second%20Pump%201_zpscygxo45t.jpg (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/eblade21/media/Second%20Pump%201_zpscygxo45t.jpg.html)

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/Second%20Pump_zpsqsh0m5fh.jpg (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/eblade21/media/Second%20Pump_zpsqsh0m5fh.jpg.html)

I have altered the set up recommendation from Sungrabber, to suit what i think will work for me.

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/Sungrabber%20set%20up_zpsqocfxk6t.jpg (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/eblade21/media/Sungrabber%20set%20up_zpsqocfxk6t.jpg.html)

Big Dave and Carl would you be able to assist and provide some feedback.

Thank you all enjoy

[eblade21]

Hi all

I just reached out to Sungrabber/Fafco they supplied me this diagram as a setup, can someone please assist and advise which setup is better or makes more sense.

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/eblade21/Fafco%20Setup_zpshtolucjo.jpg (http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/eblade21/media/Fafco%20Setup_zpshtolucjo.jpg.html)