Cannot raise CYA

[QiingGuy]

Intex 16 x48" approx 4,800 gallons, Intex SWG

For the life if me I cannot raise my CYA over 30. I've used approximately 2 lbs of Leslie's conditioner and that got me to 30. Then approximately 3 lbs of HTH Stabilizer & Conditioner (maybe .3 lbs still in sock) and I'm still sitting at 30. I just put the remaining 1 lb of HTH in a warm bucket of water to dissolve and I'll throw in the pool tonight to see if that helps. Any suggestions? I'm trying to get to 80 ppm.

I'm currently running my SWG 2 hours per day AND adding 1 cup of bleach to the pool daily.

Here are my other numbers:
FAC - 2
TAC - 2
Salt - 3,100
TA - 110
pH - 7.5
Copper - 0 (I disconnected the copper connection on my SWG)
Iron - 0
Phho - 100

[Watermom]

How long ago did you add all of this stuff? I think you are likely going to find out that your overshot your target by quite a bit. Adding 5 lbs. of CYA to a 4800 gallon pool should add about 135ppm!! Don't add that last pound!!

What is the source of your fill water? You might want consider draining almost half of the water and refilling. That would put you at about the target you wanted.

[QiingGuy]

@Watermom - I HAVE NOT ADDED TODAY'S APPLICATION YET and will hold off until I receive further expert advice.

I added the original 2 lbs on June 19, 2014. The follow-up HTC application was done on July 5, 2014. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: Either a couple of days prior to or after I did the HTC application I needed to add a cup of Klean Strip Green Muriatic acid to lower my pH. Don't know if this could effect my CYA level or not but thought I'd throw it out there just to be safe.

The original application was dissolved in a 5 gallon bucket and added to the pool (this application got me to 30). Second application was done in sock hanging off the side near in-let or out-let forget terminology (water coming into pool). I have approximately .3 lbs left in sock. It appears the second application has not raised CYA at all.

Source is from hose/city water. Why drain, I'm 50 ppm from where I need to be. Confused . . .

EDIT: One last thing, I've done three separate tests. One my own, and two at separate Leslie's locations.

[Watermom]

2 lbs should have added about 55ppm. 3 more lbs. should have added an additional 80ppm.

But......... hold on. Those numbers were based on a volume of 4800 that you reported. I just now calculated your volume. I don't think you have 4800 gallons. I think you have more like 5600 gallons.

So, in 5600 gallons, 5 lbs. of stabilizer should have added 115ppm of CYA.

I don't know why you're not getting a reading. What kit are you using to test with?

[QiingGuy]

I don't know why you're not getting a reading. What kit are you using to test with?
I tested with a Taylor K-2006, then I had two separate Leslie's stores test.

[Watermom]

Have you had any algae outbreaks since you added the CYA?

[mas985]

Also, has the pool been losing water more than normal (i.e. leak)?

[QiingGuy]

Have you had any algae outbreaks since you added the CYA?
Nope, crystal clear, really no issues other than I'm still needing to add bleach daily as my SWG cannot keep-up . . . could be worse I know but I'd really like to get to a place where the SWG handles everything and I'm not adding bleach every day.

Just checked my manual and at 90% filled my pool holds 5,061 gallons.

[QiingGuy]

Also, has the pool been losing water more than normal (i.e. leak)?
Nope. Topped off a week ago tomorrow and I'd say it's dropped maybe an inch or two and much of that is due to kids splashing around.

[Watermom]

Let me ask PoolDoc to see if he sees anything I am missing.

[QiingGuy]

Something else I thought I'd add, I'm in Las Vegas and my water temp is in the high 80s to mid 90's (or at least that's what my HTH therm. says), could that be causing an challenges?

[Watermom]

I wouldn't think so. My pool temps typically range from mid80s to sometimes low 90s after a long stretch of hot temps that we often have. (Usually 85-90 most of the time.)

[mas985]

There are only a couple of ways that you can lose CYA:

Water loss due to splash out or a leak

CYA degradation due to high chlorine or bacteria

Water loss is much more common reason than degradation but if you let the FC drop for a long period of time, that can cause bacteria to proliferate and then CYA degradation can happen.

[QiingGuy]

Water loss is much more common reason than degradation but if you let the FC drop for a long period of time, that can cause bacteria to proliferate and then CYA degradation can happen.How would I know if I have bacteria? I don't see anything in the pool, water is crystal clear.

Is the consensus that I should leave the additional HTH conditioner out for now?

[Watermom]

Definitely do not add anymore at this time. I have asked Ben to pop in here and give use opinion. Hopefully, he'll be around to do so this evening.

[PoolDoc]

1. Watch the Taylor video, to verify that you did the CYA test correctly => http://pool9.net/tk/ (video links at top of page)

2. In the early AM, add 1/2 gallon of plain 8% bleach. Make sure the pump is on. After 1 hour, test FC levels with the K2006. Don't swim for 8 hours. Test FC levels again 8 hours after dosing. Report chlorine loss.


Using granular chlorine, it's pretty common for people to 'lose' the CYA when they clean their filter. This is especially true of pools where the pump doesn't run 24/7. Adding CYA using dichlor OR by putting the CYA in a sock until it's dissolved is much more reliable.

Of course, it's possible you added a mislabeled chemical.

[QiingGuy]

Hi Doc,

Thanks for the video link. Appears I'm doing it correctly. Also had two different Leslie's pools test with similar results.

I'm under the weather and will try what you suggest when I'm on my feet again. Until then I'm running my SWG 2 hours a day and adding a cup of bleach and that seems to be keeping the level where it needs to be or close enough. Want to get CYA to a point where I can only run SWG.

[Big Splash]

I needed to add a cup of Klean Strip Green Muriatic acid to lower my pH. Don't know if this could effect my CYA level or not but thought I'd throw it out there just to be safe.

Don't know if this is part of your issue, but I wouldn't use the brand "Klean Strip Green Muriatic acid". There's no amount of concentration labeled and it has unknown / unwanted additives to make it "safer" (a.k.a. not safe for pools).

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-Green-Safer-Muriatic-Acid-GKGM75006/202690263

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/b5/b5056d90-603d-4886-8aee-620ed089e9bd_400.jpg

[QiingGuy]

Yep, that's what I used 1 cup of it. Think it could have something in it that's killing my CYA? It's all Walmart carried so I didn't think there was another choice.

[Big Splash]

Yep, that's what I used 1 cup of it. Think it could have something in it that's killing my CYA? It's all Walmart carried so I didn't think there was another choice.

It's unlikely that small amount would effect your CYA. But who knows what else are the "safer" additives and what they'll do to your pool and / or yourself. Only buy chems that have the amount of concentration labeled.

Try Lowes. Good luck.

[Watermom]

@Big Splash --- nice avatar.

[Big Splash]

@Big Splash --- nice avatar.

Thanks. You too :)

@ the OP, please know you need to have P.O.P. (pool owner patience) when adding chems. That is, add half of what you think you need 1st, wait till circulated and then retest. Having half the right amount is always better than having twice the wrong amount.

[PoolDoc]

My local Lowes has plain "Crown Brand" 31% MA in the paint section for about $8/gal.

They also have 2 gal boxes of Kem-Tek MA, but I haven't read the label on those, so I'm not sure about them. However, the MSDS sheet indicates that these are just a 50:50 dilution of standard MA, and would be fine to use. The 15% strength acid barely fumes, so it's easier to work with . . . but you STILL need gloves and glasses, and STILL need to read the MA page: http://pool9.net/ma/

[QiingGuy]

A little good news, wife took sample in for test yesterday and my CYA is at 50! Do the experts here think it will continue rising? All of the conditioner in the sock is now gone, has been since the weekend. Reminder, I added the original 2 lbs on June 19, 2014. The follow-up HTC application was done on July 5, 2014.

I still have the remainder of the HTH conditioner sitting in a 5 gallon bucket on my patio with I'd say 1/2 of it dissolved. I could pour the liquid in and leave the undissolved granules out. I'll wait for advice.

I tested this morning and I had just under 1 ppm of chlorine. Per instruction I added 1/2 gallon of bleach and ran the pump for 1 hour and tested. It took it up to about 13ppm. I'll test again at 8 hours.

It's going to be a hot one today, 110 here in Vegas so I'll be looking at worse case scenario I suppose.

[PoolDoc]

I'd wait a week, and see.

However, dealer pool tests are generally NOT trustworthy. Unless they used the cloudy water / disappearing dot method (or a spectrophotometric equivalent), that test result may be meaningless. Get a K2006!

[QiingGuy]

@PoolDoc - The store she took it to did/does the cloudy water/disappearing dot method. She said he did it twice with the same result.

I have the test kit, however, it doesn't seem to come with many tests so when convenient I've been taking it in for testing. Last time I tested I got the same reading as store on samples taken at same time.

I'll wait on adding the additional CYA water.

[PoolDoc]

OK, that's fine. You're fortunate to have access to a store that does reliable testing!

[Big Splash]

Per http://www.poolcalculator.com

34ozs is what gets you to 50 (from zero). If you've added more, expect a higher reading in your next test.

[QiingGuy]

Per http://www.poolcalculator.com

34ozs is what gets you to 50 (from zero). If you've added more, expect a higher reading in your next test.
Going off of memory here, I've added between 64 and 80 oz. of conditioner, so based on this I should be off the charts by now right? Can it take upwards of 6 weeks for CYA to reach it's peak?

[Watermom]

If you recall, this was my concern back in post #2 above. The amount of CYA you added (your reported adding 5lbs.) should have added approximately 115ppm. Go back and read the beginning of the thread if you need to. But, it should NOT take 6 wks. to be able to be detected.

[Watermom]

I have asked Ben to take the time to read this entire thread if he hasn't yet done so.

[QiingGuy]

@Watermom, yes I remember (in-fact I read the entire thread this a.m.). Here's a thought; the first dose I used I put in a 5 gallon bucket for a few hours to dissolve. Maybe I thought more was dissolved than actually was and when I put it in my pump sucked out what wasn't dissolved. That said, when I did my second application using the sock I followed the directions on the back of the HTH container and added recommended amount to raise to my target level.

Just thinking out loud.

[Watermom]

If you poured the water/CYA from the bucket into your skimmer, it would have finished dissolving in the filter and should still be able to be accounted for. Did you backwash any after you added it via the skimmer? If so, how long after the application?

[PoolDoc]

I don't know what's going on. Complete the pool equip form, and the pool test form, and I'll take a look:

http://pool9.net/pf-equip-form
http://pool9.net/pf-hist-form

[QiingGuy]

I have asked Ben to take the time to read this entire thread if he hasn't yet done so.
I believe he has and I'm running a test he requested now.


If you poured the water/CYA from the bucket into your skimmer, it would have finished dissolving in the filter and should still be able to be accounted for. Did you backwash any after you added it via the skimmer? If so, how long after the application?
Sorry for the confusion. I don't have a skimmer. I dissolved the original application in about 3 gallons of warm water, stirring about every 15 minutes for 5 hours until most of it was dissolved (I thought). Then I dumped it in the pool and used a brush to spread around any granules that were on the bottom and I didn't run my pump for 24 hours to prevent the granules that were left from going into the filter. Sorry for any confusion.

[QiingGuy]

2. In the early AM, add 1/2 gallon of plain 8% bleach. Make sure the pump is on. After 1 hour, test FC levels with the K2006. Don't swim for 8 hours. Test FC levels again 8 hours after dosing. Report chlorine loss.
Test Results
Prior to putting bleach in - 1
After putting bleach in and pump running 1 hour - 13
8 hours later - 3

[QiingGuy]

Today's test results from pool store:
FAC - 1.5
TAC - 4.5
Salt - 3,000
CYA - 70 - It's coming-up!!!!!!
TA - 120
pH - 8
Acid - 2
Pho - 0

[Big Splash]

With your stated 5,061 gallons, 47ozs CYA gets you to 70 (from zero). You added more than that correct?

FC is to low and pH is to high. pH could be much higher as 8 is the max result from the basic test.

[QiingGuy]

With your stated 5,061 gallons, 47ozs CYA gets you to 70 (from zero). You added more than that correct?

FC is to low and pH is to high. pH could be much higher as 8 is the max result from the basic test.
Yes, lowered pH to 7.5 overnight. Ran SWG overnight thinking it would bring chlorine up but it dropped overnight to about 1. I'm starting to think my SWG isn't functioning properly. Threw some bleach in this morning after I tested.

[mas985]

Today's test results from pool store:
FAC - 1.5
TAC - 4.5
Salt - 3,000
CYA - 70 - It's coming-up!!!!!!
TA - 120
pH - 8
Acid - 2
Pho - 0

That is a red flag. There is something in your pool causing high CC. This is what is using up your chlorine. It could be the same thing that is consuming your CYA as well. You need to shock the pool and keep it at shock levels until FC equals TC and FC holds overnight.

[QiingGuy]

There is something in your pool causing high CC. This is what is using up your chlorine. It could be the same thing that is consuming your CYA as well. You need to shock the pool and keep it at shock levels until FC equals TC and FC holds overnight.
Forgive my ignorance how do I shock it? Currious that the only notes from the pool store (wife took it in) was to lower pH using MA. EDIT: Just read the manual for my SWG and it says I can use it to shock the pool by pressing the boost button. It will run 8 times the normal time so in my case 16 hours. Also, I read and realized I've been running my SWG one hour short every day for my current temp I need to be running it 3 hours vs. 2. So, press the boost button and let it run 16 hours to shock or is there another way?

Also, this is what my SWG looks like. Could the white stuff have anything to do with chlorine not being made? When it's on it does bubble which the manual says is it making chlorine.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/Misc/photo2-1.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/lerobinett/media/Misc/photo2-1.jpg.html)

[Watermom]

Don't use your boost setting to shock the pool. That just wears out your cell faster. Just add bleach. Tell me your volume and I'll help you figure out doses of bleach. Also, please make a signature so that we don't constantly have to scroll through threads looking for info. Put your type and size of pool, volume, type of equipment you have, and that you have a K2006. You can make a signature by clicking on the link in my signature below.

EDIT -- Also put well or city water.

[QiingGuy]

Tell me your volume and I'll help you figure out doses of bleach.
5,061 gallons.

[Watermom]

After seeing your volume, I remember doing this before somewhere up in this long thread. In a 5061 gallon pool, each quart of 8.25% bleach will add about 4ppm of chlorine. Each cup will add 1ppm. Use those as a reference to figure out how much bleach you should add to get to shock level which is based on your CYA. http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

[QiingGuy]

Based on my CYA level chart says I need to take it to 20ppm so 5 quarts of bleach should do it, right? Do I run the pump while pouring in and how long should I run the pump after? Thanks @watermom.

[Big Splash]

To shock you need to keep your FC level at least 30% of your CYA reading. That is... At a reading of 70 cya, your minimum shock level would be 21FC. Run your pump 24/7 and turn off your SWG. Keep the shock level up until you do not loose more than 1 FC overnight. Then, you can turn back on your SWG and reset your pump timer.

Based on your prior postings, your cya level is likely much higher than 70. It's just not yet showing up in the test. So, retest and adjust accordingly.

[Watermom]

Always have your pump running when you add chlorine!

[QiingGuy]

Always have your pump running when you add chlorine!
Thanks! Will be testing and shocking tonight. An interesting side note, my pool is crystal clear, can see bottom of the opposite side of the pool in detail. Water looks great. Shocking it won't hurt right?

[Watermom]

Shocking it won't hurt right?
Absolutely not! :)

(Unless you have metals-contaminated water.)

[QiingGuy]

Here are my readings prior to shocking:

FAC - 3
TAC - 4
Salt - 2,900
CYA - 80 - This is my target, going to have to watch and see if it continues to rise, so glad I didn't put the remainder in
TA - 120
pH - 7.5
Acid - 2
Pho - 0