Chlorine Lock ?

[Watermom]

We'll be here! :)

[mjsboone]

Been testing like crazy morning and night and going through a lot of bleach, but it looks like numbers are moving in right direction. I have not gotten to all points of the 3 criteria that needs to be met to break this "lock", but what I have noticed is that the pool is very clear and I am smelling that chlorine smell for the first time in a very long time. My son is keeping track of the actual numbers but I am worried about keeping up the process as we ran out of solution for testing the FC and CC this morning. I have reordered but I cant stop now. Can I keep the water holding steady until I get the solution? I so want to get to the point of "maintaining" the water with the BBB method!

[Big Splash]

Flying blind is difficult but not impossible short term. You might want to check your local pool store to see if they sell replacement testing supplies. Call around before heading out. Your looking for the Taylor FAS-DPD Titrating Reagent (Chlorine) R-0871. Just don't let them sell you anything else ;)

You said you got an 80 CYA reading correct? Was that with or without diluting the pool water sample with distilled water? What last two FC readings did you last have (before running out of reagent) and how far apart time wise?

For your size pool, adding 1 jug (121 oz) 8.25 % bleach should add 3.5 FC. You can guess how much you'll need by the amount of FC loss you had over the last two readings. Not perfect, but will keep you in the game.

[mjsboone]

Yes. 1st time I testedi gor 100. Tested again and tried to be so careful with that litle black dot...then about 80. Not diluted. We have been adding bleach 2x's per day, morning and night in the amouts that will bring it up to 25ppm. My son took over the testing for me as I became frustrated not knowing if I was doing it correctly. Watermom said to get the FC to 25ppm and get it to hold overnight and then for good measure keep it at that level for another day and then start backing off with the goal of maintaining 8-15ppm. I hope I am understanding this correctly. I will say that my pool looks sparkling and clear but I also understand this will be short-lived if I do not stick with the program. It needs a good vac but these 101 degree days are miserable! Thank you for your continued advice and support!

[PoolDoc]

It needs a good vac but these 101 degree days are miserable!

When it's 101, you need to be sure you are wearing the correct attire: sunscreen. Whether other attire (besides sunscreen) is needed depends on how high your fence is, and where the neighbors are located. Frequent in-pool inspections to make sure the the debris is adequately being removed, are also recommended. You'll be amazed how much more pleasant this task is, if you are properly dressed, and follow the proper inspection process.

;)

[mjsboone]

Sunscreen a must. Other attire optional after dark. ;)

[Big Splash]

Yes. 1st time I testedi gor 100. Tested again and tried to be so careful with that litle black dot...then about 80. Not diluted. We have been adding bleach 2x's per day, morning and night in the amouts that will bring it up to 25ppm. My son took over the testing for me as I became frustrated not knowing if I was doing it correctly. Watermom said to get the FC to 25ppm and get it to hold overnight and then for good measure keep it at that level for another day and then start backing off with the goal of maintaining 8-15ppm. I hope I am understanding this correctly. I will say that my pool looks sparkling and clear but I also understand this will be short-lived if I do not stick with the program. It needs a good vac but these 101 degree days are miserable! Thank you for your continued advice and support!

1st... Congrats on seeing the pool sparkle!!! To me, it's like the pool is smiling back :)

Just a couple things to consider... You said, "I am smelling that chlorine smell for the first time in a very long time". That smell, if still there, may be an indication your shock time is not yet over. PoolDoc can correct me, but I believe that could mean there is something in your pool binding with free chlorine to make chloramine. It's the chloramine that is what you are actually smelling. Have you done the combined chlorine (CC) test after testing for the FC? Ideally, you want that reading to be zero and that will also confirm your shock treatment was successful. When your pool is clear and doesn't smell, you know your in cruise mode.

At 80 CYA, you're gonna need extra testing R-0871 reagent. Buy the 2oz bottles instead of the 0.75oz. Consider draining the pool a little at a time to get that number down. Then by next season opening, you'll wanna be back down to about 50.

Enjoy :)

[mjsboone]

I do not believe the shock time is over yet either according to my numbers (which I cannot tell you with certainty what they are right now-my son is not home) however, your comment regarding my smelling chlorine faintly for the first time had me worried. I have been out around my pool this afternoon sniffing away trying to smell chlorine which I am proud to report, I smelled nothing! I believe that I must have been smelling the remnants of the bleach bottles! Yesterday, when I started to panic about running out of reagent, which we did this morning, I ordered another bottle without even looking at the ounces. I just do not want to lose ground because I cannot test for another day or two. Ugh!

[Big Splash]

Don't be worried so much. A slight smell isn't worth stressing over. A strong smell is a warning sign.

I ran out of reagent myself for about 5 days earlier this month. I test every day. I just kept adding my typical 1/3rd of 121oz 8.25% each day. Next test after getting my package shipment was right where I expected.

If you order again, use the Amazon store here and the forum will get a small piece of the sale.

http://poolforum.com/amz/

[mjsboone]

I did order through Amazon link on website. :)

[Big Splash]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8cw7Xzeuavxg46H2oQ8jY4mfpnY1wg cZ_hw9jOLfjA2t-yLRZ

[mjsboone]

Yikes! Pool experts, I believe I have screwed up my pool even worse! Received new bottle of reagent this afternoon and tested tonight. My numbers...FC 36, CC 7. I kept putting bleach in morning and night for the past 3 days hoping I would keep up the progress we were making in the numbers. I far surpassed the 25ppm I was shooting for. And went way up in CC also. Pool is not quite as clear as it was a few days ago and saw some algae on bottom-not a lot. Looking for some guidance please. Did the supposed chlorine lock break and,even worse, did I keep adding when I should not have.? I starting to freak out again!

[PoolDoc]

In a complicated situation like yours, it's hard to track the changes unless you record and present them systematically.

If you would please us the form, http://pool9.net/pf-hist-form/ to enter your observations. Feel free to post earlier observations if you have retained them.

Let me know when you have a couple of records up, and I'll take a look.

[PoolDoc]

One more thing: if you have done so, please watch the testkit videos completely; they are linked off the test kit page => http://pool9.net/tk/

[mjsboone]

We have kept a record of testing FC and CC since the first round of complete testing for everything when I got the official k2006 test kit. I did post those numbers. We did have to stop for a few days when we ran out of FAS-DPD and had to order. Tonight was the first test since Mon.-am.

[mjsboone]

Also...watched, watched and re-watched all the videos when doing the complete line of testing.

[Big Splash]

It's odd that CC is so high with all that bleach in there. You might want go ahead and double check your CYA test using the diluted sample mentioned earlier. In other words... if the CYA is truely at 80 it'll read 40 with a 50/50 sample of pool water and distilled water. You'll notice the testing tube is easier to read the differences in amounts at around 40 than at 80 due to the graduated scale of the test tube readings.

[mjsboone]

I am going to start a whole new testing round today so I have current, hopefully correct, numbers. It's a very rainy, hot day here in SC and when my #1 son gets home (and if it is not pouring) we will start from scratch and log the numbers on the guide provided by Pool Doc last night. This pool is not going to get the best of me!
Thanks to all for continued guidance.
-Jane

[Big Splash]

Some testing tips for you... If you're unsure of the CYA reading / result, you can retest with the same sample. Just pour what you got into the test tube back into the little dispensing bottle with the remaining leftover sample, shake, and then pour it back into the test tube for another look. No need to use more reagent for another test. Also, it is best to look down the tube in outdoor daylight with the sun at your back. Lastly, the pH reading will be artificially high due to the high amount of FC you have. So, don't let that surprise you.

[mjsboone]

Good evening. I did the full testing tonight and have posted on the guide PoolDoc gave me. My numbers are terrible-especially the CYA of 130. I tested with the diluted test using distilled water and pool water.
Other numbers:
25.6 ppm FC6
3.6 ppm CC
7.4 PH
150 TA

Feeling pretty bad that all this effort is not producing results. I'm ready to drain my pool...

[Big Splash]

Dont feel bad. Consider this all a learning experience that'll only help you later on. It figures your CYA was higher than the prior reading of 80.

If you want to drain, you'll need to do it in steps so you don't damage the liner. Drain leaving no less than about a foot of water at the most shallow end if your pool. Refill, retest, and redo if need be.

[mjsboone]

I have read that you should drain down to the bottom of skimmer and add water back. Do this several times until the water is sufficiently diluted. I guess that will be my next plan of attack. Wish I had done this to begin with. Am I correct in thinking that the CYA reading should be 50 or below when the water is diluted enough?

Two other things...I will never use those 3" tabs in my clorinator ever again (brand new chlorinator I might add!) and I should have bought stock in Chlorox.

[Big Splash]

You have the right idea. You can drain down as much as leaving a foot of water in the shallow end and you should be ok. I would guess you need to do 3x to get close to 50 cya. That is... if each drain equals 25% of your total pool water volume, the first drain will reduce your 130 cya to about 97. The next drain will take it to about 73 and the next to 55. Be sure to run the pump for a couple hours after each refill to mix up the old pool water with the new fresh refill.

You may still find yourself using those 3inch tabs at some point. So keep them handy for when you go on vacation and when you may need to add cya next season. Search the forum for proper storage tips. They will also reduce your pH with use. You reported a 7.2 pH reading correct? The pH test with your FC so high will be artificially higher than actual. To be safe, you may want to retest the pH by diluting it down to a 25% sample. Take a measuring cup and fill 3/4 cup with distiller water and 1/4 cup pool water for a full cup of test sample. Stir and then test the pH. If it reads less than before, your gonna want add some (20 Mule Team) Borax to raise the pH back into proper range.

[mjsboone]

7.4 PH last night. I will start this drain/fill process this evening. Off to a tennis tournament!

Thanks for your continued support and quidance. Much appreciated.

[Watermom]

You don't have to drain ....... lots of people just live with the high CYA and just run higher chlorine levels to compensate for it. That works, too. At this point in the summer, you might just want to leave it. Some pools lose a lot of CYA over the winter. You may just want to wait and see where your CYA is in the spring when you open and do some partial drains at that time if it is still high.

http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

I am also a little concerned that you may not be doing the CC test correctly. It is pretty unusual to get that kind of a result. Can you explain your steps that you are following to do the FC and CC test so we can verify that you are doing it properly?

How does your water look?

How consistently are you adding the bleach each night to keep the pool at shock level? It has to be done consistently. Doing it every few days isn't gonna work.

[Big Splash]

Agreed, draining isn't the only option.

[mjsboone]

Back home. Pouring down rain here.

I have tested again. Using the 10ml. sample I added 1 scoop powderand it turned really pink then added37 drops of 871 until clear, multiplied number of drops by 0.5 which equaled 18.5. I then added 5 drops of 003 and sample turned light pink. I then added 4 drops of 871 and it became clear. Multiplied 4x0.5 =2

Last added bleach Weds. night. 5 jugs. Then got scared...I have bleach to go in pool if I need to do that. It just seemed like everything was way out of wack. Water is clear.

[PoolDoc]

I'm sorry things have been so frustrating.

1. Hang on a little longer. Enter daily test results in the pool history spread sheet. Do NOT test CYA -- it's not going to change, and you'll run out of reagent.

2. Complete the equipment form: http://pool9.net/pf-equip-form/ Try to include your pump and filter models. Once you've got several days results posted, and have have the equipment form completed, I'll go back and re-read this thread from the beginning and see if I can make more sense of things.

3. Keep in mind that draining a vinyl pool is a HUGE issue, and can destroy your liner if done incorrectly.

[mjsboone]

Greetings to my pool experts in the cyber world. I have completed the pool equipment form and have also added my last 3 testings on pool history document and submitted. Maybe PoolDoc can take a look? I think maybe things have improved on the FC and CC front. Adding less and less bleach to get to that 25 number and the 1 CC. Pool is clear. Needs a good vac (to waste!). It looks good. I have not retested the CYA and will not because I will definitely run out of reagent. I did not drain at all and it rained about 1 inch yesterday. Does any of this sound like I might be making progress? Thanks for your continued advice and support!

[Big Splash]

Well if the pool is clear, you're at the last mile of all this. So congrats :)

I'm sure PoolDoc will take a look when he can.

[mjsboone]

I have added 5 entries on the pool history form and submitted. For those that can access those history forms that I have submitted, are there any thoughts on my progress getting past this "chlorine lock". Pool is clear, but I don't think I'm there yet. Not adding nearly the amount of bleach everyday, but still adding. I hope I can get to the maintenance mode soon.

Thanks to all.

[Big Splash]

I don't have access to the data, but I would say you likely can consider yourself in maintenance mode. You'll need to keep the FC between 10% to 20% of the 130 CYA you tested going forward (if you don't drain). I'd shoot for keeping it at about 19FC for the rest of the season and see how that goes. Remember to keep testing the FC every 1-2 days to be sure. Consider this the key and the chlorine unlocked :)

Good luck.

[mjsboone]

The FC has been at 19.5 the last three testings but I think somewhere back in this thread, watermom advised to get it to 25ppm and hold and make sure CC less than .5 (the CC was 1.5 this morning), then back off until 10-15ppm and maintain. Ive been adding bleach to get up to the 25ppm but if I am understanding correctly, I can hold it at 19ppm, test every couple of days, and add bleach if necessary. PH 7.6 this am. It is to be sunny, hot and humid here for the week-normal summer. Will that full blown sun on the pool all day make my numbers go haywire again? Hang in there with me! I think I'm starting to "get it". My neighbor told me yesterday my pool was sparkling! :)

[Big Splash]

Take a look back on the thread. The 25ppm recommendation was for a shock level when you posted a CYA reading of 80. At 130 CYA, you're target numbers become respectfully higher.

Your numbers are not "haywire" as long you know what they mean and what to do (or not to do). That's when you know you've got it :)

[mjsboone]

Appreciated. Thanks!

[Watermom]

Sorry to disagree Big Splash, but with a reported CC of 1.5, mjsboone is not in maintenance mode just yet.

Continue to keep the chlorine at 25ppm and test daily. Keep it at that level until you pass the 3 criteria:

1) Don't lose more than 1ppm from sundown one evening until within an hour of sunrise the next morning
2) CC of no higher than 0.5ppm
3) Water is clear

Then, keep it high for one additional day and then you can let the chlorine drift down and keep it between 8-15ppm ALL the time.

[PoolDoc]

Thanks, WaterMom.

[PoolDoc]

@mjsboone: I just checked your form results, and your pool definitely seems to be improving over the interval you recorded (8/1 - 8/4). In particular, I noticed the gradually diminishing CC levels (3.0, 2.0, 2.0, 1.5, 0.5, 1.5) and the improvement in odor. Both factors suggest you are on the right track, and are close to the 'finish line'.

[mjsboone]

Thank you PoolDoc. I will keep testing and posting until everything is square!

[mjsboone]

I was at 20ppm FC and CC 1 last night and added bleach- 1 1/2 jugs.
This morning I as at 24ppm FC and 1 CC- added 1/2 jug.
These numbers posted in history log.

I swept the pool this morning to waste and noticed a lot of greenish debris that was clumped on bottom-all out now! Also, there appears to be some staining on the liner that was not there before. Water is clear.

[PoolDoc]

Brown / yellow dust that turned green when you swept it?

[mjsboone]

I would say more greenish brownish-clumpy. It has been over a week since being swept and with the filter pretty much going all the daylight hours, today was the first day that I looked at it very still. There was a lot of junk on the bottom. Pool has not had much use to stir it up. Could I still have algae or even dead algae settled on bottom?

[mjsboone]

Just went out and looked at pool again. Looks great-clear and sparkly. Could some of that staining disappeared this quickly??? Within the past 2 hours???

[Watermom]

Yes, if the stains were organic, high chlorine can take care of them. Even though your water looks clear, still keep high chlorine until you meet the 3 criteria posted above.

[mjsboone]

Noticing some changes in pool this morning and have submitted pool history entries. Would it be possible for Watermom or PoolDoc to take a look?

Thanks for all your guidance and support!

[PoolDoc]

Ok, you're reporting what sounds like mustard algae -- so you'll need even higher levels of chlorine.

BUT . . . I'm puzzled by the difference in readings between what you entered in the form, and what you entered in the notes. For example you entered pH=7.0 in the form, but in the notes you have pH=7.6 .

[mjsboone]

I am unable to enter decimal points on the form for some reason. I asked the tech guru in my household and he says that the keyboard that pops up on my tablet from your history form will not let me add symbols. I believe I have been entering the correct numbers with decimal points in the narrative section on pool history form.

[PoolDoc]

Argh. I am SO not loving the transition from computers to tablets and phones! In so many ways, it's a technological step backwards, with smaller screens, worse keyboards, 'helper' apps that have unpredictable effects on data (and form!) entry, and so on.

I'm actually going to have drag out old pages from PoolSolutions, because they were better optimized for the smaller screen sizes typical of phones and tablets.

Personally, I have a 1920 x 1080 screen on both my desktop and my iPad . . . but naturally, the iPad is less than 1/4 as usable as the desktop. Of course, it IS easier to carry around.

Ok. Done whining for now.

[mjsboone]

I'm sure it is a challenge to keep up with tech advances which constantly set you back with changes. I am technologically challenged myself and depend on my 21 year old brainiac son to keep me on track! Back to my water... how much higher FC? I am trying to get it to that 25ppm and hold. Not there yet. Seems to go back to 21-22 FC over night and then again at dusk. Keep adding appropriate dose of bleach to get it to 25. Should that eventually take care of the mustard algae if I am diligent in vaccing to waste and brushing? I'm sorry I am so full of questions everyday...

[PoolDoc]

No problem with the questions.

Chlorine => 25% of your CYA => ~35 ppm or HIGHER!

The other option is to use phosphate remover. Mustard algae is VERY chlorine resistant. I'd recommend first trying 35 ppm + daily brushing, and see if you can eradicate it that way. It's much easier to remove mustard algae from vinyl pools than other types. Do NOT use any of the mustard algae products -- they ALL have horrendous side effects. Don't bother with polyquat; it's not very effective against mustard algae.

If you want, you can try borates. Raising your borate level to 60 ppm improves the aesthetics of the pool water somewhat, and helps with green algae. It may help with mustard algae somewhat, AND it will help with winter maintenance. If you want to pursue that, you'll need 22 boxes of 20 Mule Team borax (www.walmart.com/ip/20850525) and about 6 gallons of PLAIN 31% muriatic acid, like the Crown Muriatic at Lowes (http://www.lowes.com/pd_206474-34228-CR.MA.P.01_0__?productId=3024039)

The remaining option is using a phosphate remover, but doing so successfully requires a definite plan and consistent efforts on your part. Simply adding phosphate remover without a plan and without accurate phosphate testing is likely to be nothing but a waste of money.