Murky algae pool

[janbogus]

I moved into this house with a pool four years ago. The liner and motor were replaced last year. Because of working out of town so much, the pool was neglected most of last summer and was not covered over the winter. I am still getting some debris off the floor of the pool but now it is minima. I cannot get rid of the algae this year. Over the past couple of months I have put 100 pounds of shock in the pool and treated it with algaecide 3 times. I flocked it last week and it had finally gotten down to a very light green with visibility around the perimeter. With Hurricane Arthur this week, I feel like I am back to ground zero. I have been working with a local pool company but cannot afford to keep sinking this much money into all the chemicals. Yesterday I put 10 more pounds of shock, 8 chlorine tablets and algaecide in the pool. It is back to a light murkey green, first step only visible. Help!

Readings this morning were 3.0 chlorine and 7.2 PH.

Pool Info: 18x36 inground vinyl, Hayward Sand Filter S220T, US Motor 11087 Pool Motor K63CXERJ-4776 1.0HP

[PoolDoc]

One of the major problems with pools and algae is that most pool owners don't understand that, with algae, if you're not winning, you're losing. Every time you kill a bit of the algae, without killing it all, you lose any headway you made . . . and may actually make things worse, by developing a highly chlorine resistant mix of algae and bacteria.

So, if you want to deal with the algae, you have to accept that everything you've spent so far was wasted, and that you are now going to do whatever it takes. If you're NOT ready to do that, you might as well give up, cover it, and wait till next year. If you've truly blown your budget, and can't do what's needed, that may be your only real option.

The ugly fact is that cleaning up a single episode of bad algae can cost more than 2 months of normal pool treatment, using the BBB method!

A second problem is that often, by the time pool owners come here, they've already created a chemical hobo soup in their pool. Consequently, we end up a bit nervous about making recommendations, since we're not sure what reactions may occur with the chemicals ALREADY in their pool. If you've used copper algaecides, we have to worry about creating copper stains.

And the third major problem is that pool owners usually don't know enough about their pool's basic chemical status, for us to unhesitatingly make recommendations.

One of the most important ideas that make up the BBB method, is the fact that the CORRECT pool chlorine level is determined by your CYA (stabilizer) level. Unfortunately, CYA testing is the least accurate of all standard pool tests -- and testing with strips, even computer read dealer strips -- is HORRENDOUSLY inaccurate.

Normal chlorine levels should be 1 ppm or 10% of your CYA level, which ever is higher. But to be effective against algae, you have to reach chlorine levels that are at least 20% of your CYA level. This is pretty hard to do when (a) standard pool tests only go to 10 ppm, (b) most pool owners have no real idea what their CYA level is, and (c) accurate chlorine and CYA tests are usually not available from pool dealers.

To understand how all this came about, you need one more fact: pool dealers profit -- enormously -- from inaccurate testing and dosing. They have some incentive to make their test results *seem* accurate, but they have NO incentive to to make sure that their testing *is* accurate. This is why the dealer computers have all the extra decimal precision, ie "your FC level is 1.06 ppm" . . . when the true accuracy of those tests is only to the nearest 0.5 ppm!. This fake accuracy (precision) is most apparent with CYA results, where dealer testing often reports things like "Your CYA level is 96 ppm" when the strip actually can't tell the difference between 96 ppm and 56 ppm!

Bad testing results in over treatment, under treatment followed by over treatment and ineffective treatment followed by more ineffective treatment . . . with dealers selling chemicals every step of the way.

Now, your dealer might be a nice guy: many, many dealers, who benefit from terrible testing, are not actually crooks. They're just ignorant and mis-educated! After all most of the training in the pool industry is developed or paid for by the pool chemical companies!

So . . . where do you want to go from here?

A reasonable estimate is that, with a 25k gal 18x36 pool, you're looking at $350 to find your way home: about $100 for testkits and such, and $250 in additional chemicals. And that will only get you to the point where can begin maintaining your pool correctly for the rest of the season. However, if you follow the BBB method that will likely cost on $50 - $80 per month, depending on what's available to you locally.

*If* you want to fix things here are first steps:

1. Go to Walmart and get 12 gallons of PLAIN 8% household bleach, and a cheapo OTO/phenol red test kit
2. Begin adding 2 gallons of PLAIN 8% household bleach to your pool every evening, late. (If you've used a lot of copper, this may cause copper stains to form)
3. Test pH & chlorine each evening BEFORE adding the bleach, and report results here.
4. Order a K2006 testkit => http://pool9.net/tk/
5. Run your filter 24/7, if you aren't already doing so.
6. Vacuum up all debris on the pool floor. Backwash after doing so.
7. Do NOT use any more algaecides or mystery chemicals.

Best wishes.

[janbogus]

I ordered the Taylor kit yesterday. Should be in sometime next week. I already had the 3-way test kit from Walmart. Yesterday I used the leaf bucket/net for an hour working on the bottom of the pool and also vacuumed to waste. So, yes, I had to add some water. Much lighter green color this morning. Took readings last night before I added the two gallons of bleach and again this morning.
Pre-bleach readings: chlorine: 3.0 and ph: 7.
Post-bleach/next morning: chlorine: over 5.0(kit stops at 5) and ph: 7.2

[Watermom]

You can use this chart to decipher readings that are off the scale for your tester:> http://pool9.net/oto-chart/

[janbogus]

Readings last night prior to adding bleach: chlorine: 3.0. PH: 7.2

This morning: chlorine: 5.0. PH: 6.8
PH is dropping. Do I need to worry about it? Using leaf rake and vacuuming to waste.

[PoolDoc]

Retest pH this evening, and if it's still low, add 1/2 box of borax.

What does your water look like?

[janbogus]

I will have to get my son to test the pool this evening (working out of town until tomorrow) and add the bleach/possible borax. This morning the color was a pale light green- getting closer! (It has not been this light with any of the shock etc I was using before. I can make out the second step now. The first step the water looks clear except for what I am suspecting is mustard algae (or dead algae but it has a brown color to it). When I vacuum or use the leaf rake along the bottom of the pool, you can see a cloud form in the water.

Jan

[PoolDoc]

When I vacuum or use the leaf rake along the bottom of the pool, you can see a cloud form in the water.

Sounds like mustard algae.

[janbogus]

Levels this evening are chlorine 3.4 and pH 7.2. I figure I've had a couple different types of algae. Will have to read up on the site on how to get rid of the mustard algae as the green disappears.

[janbogus]

Received my Taylor 6200 kit today. Took new readings and if I did the analysis correctly, I got the following levels:
FE: 1.2, CC: 2.2 Ph: 7.0, Alk: 100, CYA: 42, and CAL: >1100.

I added two more gallons of bleach. I did not add the borax the other day because the levels had risen. Looks like I need to add it now. The pool is a hazy, cloudy blue. I can make out the jets and the third step in the shallow end. When I started to vacuum to waste tonight, the billowing clouds returned. So it looks like the mustard algae is still there.

What would you suggest next?

[Watermom]

These testing demos may be helpful to you:> http://pool9.net/K2006-vid/

Raise your chlorine back up to shock level which is based on your CYA level:> http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

[PoolDoc]

Two questions:

1. Are you sure your CH (calcium hardness) is 1,100?

That's 110 drops of reagent! If you haven't already, watch the Taylor videos: http://pool9.net/tk-guide/ and http://pool9.net/tk-interfere/

Also, please test the pH, TA and CH of the water you filled your pool with -- presumably your house water, but upstream of any softener, etc.


2. Can you explain the sequence of the "billowing clouds"? Where were these clouds billowing from?

I don't understand, since vacuuming to waste should have ZERO effect on your pool water, since the discharge water is going out the backwash line.

[janbogus]

I did not test my house water. I did watch the Taylor video and also checked out the website that poolmom recommended.
My pool water is still a cloudy blue (i.e. can't see the bottom of the pool). The "billowing clouds" are brown and come from the bottom of the pool when I vacuum or brush still but not as bad as they were. I do believe I still have mustard algae or else it is dead algae and that's causing the "clouds". (Please note, on the other side of my property, probably less than 50-100 yards from the pool is a drainage ditch for run off water from the city.) It has rained a couple of heavy downpours over the past week and I did add more borax and a couple gallons of bleach throughout the week. I read the levels yesterday morning and again this morning. Yesterday after reading the levels, I put in one box of borax, half a box at a time. Last night I added two gallons of bleach.

Here are the levels over the last couple of days.
7/19: FC: 5 CC: 4.0 PH: 7.0 TA: 120 CH: 375 CYA:80
7/20: FC: 8 CC: 2.5 PH: >8.0 (purplish color) TA: 100 CH: 290 CYA: 90

So the combined chlorine is dropping.
I am going to look over the instructions again. Do I go ahead and use a floculant to drop everything to the ground so I can see what I have left in the pool? When I use the leaf net I don't get anything and when I vacuum to waste I am not getting much debris from the pool floor in the skimmer basket.

[Watermom]

If your numbers are accurate, then your chlorine is no where high enough to kill algae. With a CYA of 90 (and by the way, you do NOT need to test this daily as it won't change that quickly and will just waste testing reagents), your shock level is 20ppm. But, if you truly do have mustard algae, your shock level may need to be even higher. But, since you haven't been maintaining consistent readings of 20, I'd try that first before deciding to go higher. Again, the chart with the CYA/Chlorine connection is here:> http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

Keep the chlorine at shock level until you meet these 3 criteria:
1) You lose no more than 1ppm of FC from sundown one evening to within an hour of sunrise the next morning
2) You have no greater than 0.5ppm of CC
3) Your water is clear and no patches or spots of algae anywhere

At that point, we recommend keep the chlorine high for at least one additional day and then let it drift down but never let it drop below the minimum from the chart which is based on your CYA reading.

I would NOT use a floc at this time. There is no reason to. I think your problem is that you haven't killed the algae because of inadequate chlorine levels.

[janbogus]

I just had a business meeting at my house and one of the individuals used to have a pool company. He said it is dead algae, not mustard algae. I will try what you suggested. Thanks Watermom.

[Watermom]

You are welcome. Keep us posted how things are going.

[Watermom]

@Crazy Cat Lady ------ i moved the post you tagged onto the end of this thread and started your own thread. You can find it here:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/25640-Crazy-Cat-Lady-s-Murky-algae-pool