Still very cloudy after running filter 24/7 for 2 1/2 weeks, 3rd year using BBB metho

[dimpledn]

Our winter cover split on both ends and allowed lots of debris to fall in, algae to grow, and our pool was a complete mess upon opening this year (we opened late due to unforeseen circumstances). I have since cleaned out all debris, chlorinated using household bleach, I've used borax and baking soda. I have also used the Walmart Extra Blue shock 1 bag 4 times waiting 72 hours in between each dose. I have also changed my sand in my filter and replaced the lateral pipe as it was cracked. I have a Hayward S180T sand filter. This year I installed a new eyeball return that starts with a V (sorry can't remember and it's probably irrelevant anyway) and it's supposed to allow for better circulation. I have never had this problem with my pool before. The water is a bluish milk cloudy and appeared to be clearing, however the past 5 or 6 days no changes I can see about 1 foot down into my pool and
My levels are as follows.
FC 29
CC 0
TA 70
CH 30
CYA 30
Any help you could give me would be most appreciated.
Above ground pool, vinyl liner 15 by 30 oval 48 inches deep.

[Watermom]

What size pump do you have? Are you running the pump 24/7 and backwashing as needed?

I have no idea what is in Walmart Extra Blue shock. Can you list the ingredients?

Your numbers look pretty good but you didn't list a pH reading.

What test kit did you use to get these numbers? (You won't be able to test pH accurately while the chlorine is that high, by the way.)

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

[dimpledn]

I have an AStral 1800 series pump, but I have no idea what horse power it is. The writing in worn on it.

My PH has consistently been 7.2 even before I got the chlorine this high.
Yes, I am running the pump 24/7 and am backwashing as necessary.
My test kit is the TF-100.
The active ingredients in the Walmart Aqua Chem Xtra blue are Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione 63.5%, Copper (metallic) .26%, Other ingredients 36.69%(it doesn't say what other is). http://www.poolgeek.com/products/aqua-chem-shock-xtra-blue-1-lb?utm_source=googlepla&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CM_P3K7WkL8CFTJn7AodulIAig There is a link to the xtra blue shock.
Thank you so much for reading my thread!

[chem geek]

See the sticky on Adding DE to a sand filter (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/3742-Adding-DE-to-sand-filter) as that can improve filtration for finer particles.

[Watermom]

Uh, oh. I see the words copper in that ingredient list. You don't want to put copper in your pool unless you like things stained or like blonde hair turning green! Most people think it is chlorine that causes that, but rather it is copper. Don't use any more of that product.

You might want to verify that your filter is working properly. Find a small bag of DE and add a small amount to the skimmer and watch the returns. If you see white powder shooting back out, that means that your filter is not working. If you don't see that, then the DE may actually help your filter to work better. More about that here:> http://pool9.net/de-test/

(Until your registration is completed, you won't be able to see the rest of the forum while you are logged in. So, copy that link and paste it in a browser window after you have logged out.)

[dimpledn]

Ok,I will try that. What should I use to shock the pool if needed? Just bleach? I've always used the one above with no problems. Do I need a clarifier? I do have a nylon knee high panty hose over my skimmer and have been rinsing it off daily.

[Watermom]

Yes, you can just use bleach for shocking. Don't fool with a clarifier at this point. Let's just check on the status of your filter first.

[dimpledn]

Ok, I have some DE and will try that tomorrow. Our power company is cutting off our neighborhood power for four hours in the morning. I'll try after that. Thanks again! My sand is brand new as of Saturday.

[Watermom]

Ok. Let's us know the results.

(I just now noticed that Chem_Geek and I posted at about the same time awhile ago and gave you the same advice --- try the DE test. ;)

[dimpledn]

I didn't realize Chem_Geek had replied either. Thank you!
I was thinking over night (yes, this year my pool is keeping me awake ha ha) that maybe the DE I have isn't the kind you're talking about so I googled it and
realized there is more than one kind! I have the food grade. I will go to the pool store today and see if they have the pool kind.

[dimpledn]

So far I've added 1/4 cup of DE (the pool kind) and did not see any white coming out of the return. I will wait 20 minutes check the pressure and add additional if necessary.
I take it I should leave the nylon panty hose off the skimmer, correct?

[dimpledn]

I've added 3/4 cups total and the pressure has risen 2 psi after about 6 hours. The flow out the return is much slower but still coming out so I'm going to wait and see how it looks in the morning. So far no change in the cloudiness.

[Watermom]

Give it a little time and see if it helps. If not, you may want to try some 60% Polyquat. It is the only kind of algaecide we ever recommend and it is also somewhat of a clarifier. http://pool9.net/polyquat/

But, I'd wait at least a few more days and see if the DE does anything for you before trying Polyquat. Keep your chlorine levels up.

[dimpledn]

I THINK it's a bit bit better this morning. It could be psychological! ;) I backwashed it this morning since the return was flowing at a snails pace, although the pressure was still only up 2 psi, and added 1/2 cup of DE to the skimmer again.

I will keep you informed and again thank you so much for taking your time to help me.

[Watermom]

You are very welcome. Hopefully it will clear before too long. Keep us posted! :)

[PoolDoc]

I backwashed it this morning since the return was flowing at a snails pace, although the pressure was still only up 2 psi, and added 1/2 cup of DE to the skimmer again.

Correct thing to do: even if the pressure hasn't gone up much, when the flow drops way off -- backwash.

. . . membership updated.

[dimpledn]

Thank you for confirming the back washing. This forum has been so helpful. I'm noticing I can see the bottom now fairly easily, but still a ways to go. Progress is happening!!

[PoolDoc]

Great!

[dimpledn]

Another update :)
I can now see the bottom about 1/2 way across the pool. It's a slow slow process, but I'm happy to be making progress. :) Should I purchase the Polyquat since it's been this long now and
it's still not clear? Anything else I could do to hurry the process? Or should I just be patient and wait. Today marks four weeks of trying to get it clear. I'm trying to be "good". ;)

[Watermom]

It won't hurt to use the Polyquat. It may or may not help clear it any faster but worth a try. It will drop your chlorine level so be aware of that. Just raise it back up. No big deal.

[Watermom]

Not sure why your thread accidentally got locked but at any rate, I opened it back up.

[dimpledn]

Thank you! Here's an update. Still cloudy. I've been keeping the chlorine up, it's sort of like a blueish green mix and less milky cloudy if that makes sense. I can see the bottom now pretty much all the way across, but not easily. I have not used any polyquat yet. I'm wondering if when my filter had a crack in the pipe leading to the laterals (now fixed about 2 or 3 weeks ago), did it cause sand to go into my pool and that's part of the cloudiness problem? When I stir the water up really well I do then notice sand in the skimmer sock. Is there any way to get the sand out other than turning the filter off so the sand possibly settles and then vacuum it out or is that the solution?

[PoolDoc]

1. Sand in the pool does not cause cloudiness.

2. Sand *missing* from the filter DOES cause cloudiness.

3. Sand that is too coarse (anything other than labeled filter sand INCLUDING Quikrete 'filter sand') causes cloudiness.

4. Anything that ends up in the skimmer sock, when you stir the pool is NOT sand; sand sinks too fast.

Did you use some sort of zeolite or sand replacement media?

On what date did you first do the DE test?

Now that you can see a bit more in the pool, can you do the DE test again, with 4 cups of DE, and make sure that DE is not getting through your filter?

[dimpledn]

I bought the sand from the pool store. I haven't used the products you mentioned. I did the de test 6/24. I will do the test again in the morning. Could it be metals? I have well water. This has never happened before however and I've had the pool several years.

[PoolDoc]

Metals don't usually cause cloudiness, unless it's iron rust.

Regarding the sand, do you recall if the sand was in bags that were labeled "filter sand"? Pool stores have been known to sell cheap grades of sand blast sand instead.

[dimpledn]

I'm sorry I don't recall what the bag said on it. I can call them Monday and ask.
I did the DE test today adding 3 cups directly to the skimmer (without the sock) and no mixing with water. Honestly I was afraid to add 4
since 1/2 cup was too much earlier (meaning it would clog by filter and I have well water and it's hard to keep the water level up at times).
No white water came out the return at all. Three days ago I added an athletic sock to the skimmer instead of a nylon one so I could see if
it would get stained. That sock is now a dark brown (was white). We got in the pool yesterday and stirred it up really well and I didn't
see, what I thought was sand earlier in the week, in the sock this morning. In the sock are just normal bugs and dirt and like I said before very stained.
It MIGHT be a bit bit clearer each day now, but nothing to brag about for sure. Thank you for continuing to read. I really do appreciate it!
to be getting any clearer at this point.

Another observance, since adding the three cups of DE this morning, well over two hours ago, the pressure hasn't dropped any and the return is still strong flowing. The other day when testing and mixing the DE with water using only about half cup it clogged the filter and I had to back wash.

[PoolDoc]

Go in and look at the bags. 99% chance that they'll tell you it's "filter sand", no matter whether it is, or not.

Is your water clear enough for you to see whether the DE came back out into the pool?

Also, you said the sock was dark brown. Was that dark like chocolate or coffee, or dark like a rusted tin can? Dark like coffee + well water points to manganese. Do you have a treatment system on your house water, especially a "greensand" filter?

[dimpledn]

I haven't been able to go in the pool store, because they are closed for July 4th, and I can't go in and look because it's kept around the back of the store in a little alley way. Maybe I can sneak around there. ha ha!
My water is clear enough to see the return very easily. I can see all of the bottom of the pool now. It's not the milky cloudy anymore, but it's not clear. My water does not look brown at all, it's like it's the right color now, but not clear, but I'd no longer describe it as "cloudy" water. Sorry if that's confusing. The sock stain isn't a rich (warm tone) brown like coffee or chocolate and I wouldn't say it's like tin can rust either which I would describe as a warm color too. It's more of a cool tone dark brown. http://www.deviantart.com/art/He-wanted-socks-377368181 I searched for cool tone brown and found that image, it's more of that brown color. Funny that is was socks too. :P

I do not have a treatment system on my house.

The DE from yesterday morning is still in my filter and the pressure has only risen 1 PSI, the return has diminished just a bit, but not enough to need backwashing. The pool is getting better day by day, and I know I need patience. I've just never had this problem before. When we first set up the pool (years ago) we filled with pond water and it was clear within a week. I know that's nasty, but it was our only choice. I have the Walmart shock bags I mentioned earlier in my thread staring at me begging to be ripped open and thrown in the pool, but I am resisting, really I am.

Thanks again for your patience and help.

[PoolDoc]

1. I'm glad it's not chocolate brown. Dingy sock gray-brown is typical of many pool conditions, EXCEPT live algae, so it's not a specific indicator, like chocolate brown is.

2. Nothing wrong with pond water, if you chlorinate and have a filter than can clean it upl.

3. If it's clearing, and if DE's NOT shooting out the return, I'd recommend simply maintaining chlorine levels, and adding DE after each backwash, till the water is clear.

[dimpledn]

Happy to say that in just over a month my water is finally "resembling" clear pool water. I backwashed yesterday and a lot of dingy water came out so I'm pretty sure the DE is what is doing the trick now. :) I added more DE back (about 2 cups) Thanks again and I bet by tomorrow or the next day I'll have sparkling water again. :)
Would you recommend a good winter cover for an area with lots of leaves and wind so this never happens again.
Thank you all again!
Anyone reading this thread do what they say! It works! Be patient and throw away the aqua chem shock. ;)

[robbym70]

You have shown us a great example of P.O.P. Pool Owner Patience. I'm surprised no one else referenced this earlier. Alot of posters want clear water NOW ! and aren't in a good place to hear "just be patient"

These guys ARE great. I bought a new house in Sept of 2010 and found their forum over the winter while researching how to care for pools. In the four years since I think I've had only one algae outbreak and that because I was away and not able to add chlorine at the right time.

[PoolDoc]

@robbym70: Thanks for the 'attaboy'!

@dimpledn: I'm uncomfortable with how long it took your pool to clear. Granted, some things were going wrong when you first tried. But I'm still suspicious of your sand filter. If you get a chance to get a bag of real filter sand, do so, and set it aside. The first time you open your filter after that, compare the filter sand to what you have . . . and see if you need to replace, or add, sand.

[dimpledn]

Thanks, Robbym70! :)

PoolDoc, the only thing I can think of that would have caused it to take so long is the broken pipe to the laterals in the filter. It's still odd it took that long after we repaired it. My husband said the bag did say filter sand on it. My pool is clear now, but the tree frogs keep trying to take over (not a new problem). They just laid a nice new batch of eggs in my pool. Thanks again!