Alkalinity High and pH low

[BMomma]

Just joining the pool world. Starting with 16ft 48" above ground Intex before we go bigger. Having a tough time bringing the alkalinity down without lowering pH too much - I read somewhere that if pH gets too low the alkalinity won't come down. I feel like I spent weeks trying to educate myself and finally felt confident that I knew what I was doing, but now that I'm trying to execute what I thought I learned - I'm really struggling. Any tips for this newbie would be appreciated... filter on? filter off? how long to wait before retesting? how long to wait before adding more chemicals? do I really need to keep pH above 7 for alkalinity to be affected? can the kids swim before it's all in check? I'll take any advice at this point!!!!

[Watermom]

Hi and welcome to the Pool Forum!

Do you have a drops-based test kit? If so, post some current water testing numbers. ('Guess-strips' don't count. ;))

The test kit that we think is by far the best is the Taylor K2006 or 2006C (better buy). Not available locally but you can get it through this link that takes you to Amazon: http://pool9.net/tk/

But, in the meantime, go to Walmart and see if they have the HTH 6-Way drops-based kit (no test strips!) and get that. If they don't, get an OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops) instead. Use it to test and then post your numbers. Also while you are at WallyWorld, get several jugs of their generic 8.25% bleach, a couple of boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle) and a gallon of distilled water
.
Some questions for you:
--Is this a freshly filled pool?
--Did you fill from a well or from city water?
--What all have you added to the water? Post ingredients and not just product names, please.
--What size (hp) pump do you have?
--What kind and size of filter?

To try and answer a few of your questions:
--There are a lot of varying opinions about how long to run the pump. I typically run mine for about 8 hours per day.
--It is critical that your pH be above 7.0. Readings lower than that are acidic and can damage your pool.
--Wait a couple hours after adding chemicals to retest.
--The kids can swim if the pH is between 7-8ppm and you have adequate chlorine in the pool.

Re-post with requested info and then someone here can try and help you. Depending on what all you have added, it may be that you can use our Super Simple Start up Recipe:> http://pool9.net/sspool-info/

(Until you registration is completed, you won't be able to see the rest of the forum while you are logged in. So, copy that link and then paste it into a browser window after you log out.)

Hope this helps.

[BMomma]

Unfortunately I was at WalMart already today... but after reading this I certainly hope to make another trip this evening!

It was filled about 3 weeks ago :(
Filled from a well

CHEMICALS:
Added a 5lb container of pH Minus: sodium bisulfate (93.3%) sodium sulfate (6.7%) - alkalinity still 240+
Added a gallon of muriatic acid - brought the alkalinity down to 180
Added most of another 5lb container of pH Minus listed above - next to no effect on alkalinity
Added pH plus sodium carbonate (100%) (3-4ish lbs based on what's left) after reading alkalinity wouldn't move if pH was low - I was 6.4 or less
Finished off the 5lb container of Minus since pH had come up and alkalinity was still high

Don't know the hp of the pump - it says Krystal Clear 635T 110-120V, 60Hz, 2.1A
Will have to get back to you on the filter

My pH is in swimmable range, but I haven't added any chlorine since I read it would affect how the other chemicals work. My poor kids are just crying to get in there :(

Thanks for all the help and I'll repost better #'s when I have them.

[Watermom]

If you don't get some chlorine in there, you're gonna have an additional problem to deal with......... a green pool!

Tonight, add a couple of quarts of bleach in there.

What is your pH? Do you have a kit?

Don't add anything else right now but bleach and if your pH is lower than 7.2, add some 20 Mule Team Borax. You don't want your pH to go lower than 7.0 or it can damage your pool.

Read this:> http://pool9.net/ssr/ It is an easy way to start up a new pool.

[BMomma]

OK Watermom - I added bleach last night - and we had HUGE rain storms all night. Didn't get to Walmart until just now - got the test kit and added some 20 Mule Team Borax

pH 6.8 - possibly a little higher (this was before adding 20 Mule Team Borax)
TA 240ppm
CA - the dot never disappeared
TH - 400ppm
Cl/Br - 0

I guess I'm just not sure how much of the Borax or Bleach to add, how long to wait before retesting and adding, should the filter be running before/after/during/between testings?

THANK YOU!!!!

[PoolDoc]

OK. Lemme interpret.

pH = 6.8. This means your pH is 6.8 OR LOWER, not that it's 6.8. Add 1/2 box doses of borax till you get up to 7.0. Then keep it there. (You can lower it to 6.8 as long as you do it with SMALL acid additions, so that you know that if it's lower than 6.8, it's not much lower!)

CA = CYA = cyanuric acid or stabilizer = 10 ppm OR lower. Essentially, you have no stabilizer.

TA = 240 => Your alkalinity is high enough to cause problems.

TH (CH?) = 400 => Your hardness is high enough to cause problems, in combo with the high TA.

Cl = 0 => You are about to get algae!!


For dosing and other info, read the Super Simple recipe page => http://pool9.net/ssr/

For the next week or so, do NOT add ANY chemicals EXCEPT: bleach, dichlor (see ssr), muriatic acid, or borax. ESPECIALLY, do not add any baking soda, sodium carbonate, pH up or calcium containing products, including cal hypo shock.

Modify the SSR to use acid as needed to keep your pH near 6.8 - 7.0. Lowering alkalinity requires (3) ingredients: acid, aeration, and P.O.P. Aeration occurs slowly in all uncovered pools, but anything that ruffles the surface or makes bubbles (like two 10-year old boys) will speed it up.

P.O.P is more difficult, because pool owners are inclined to look for something that they can just pour in, but Pool Owner Patience can't be purchased at the pool store! (Sorry, my alarming inclination to alliterate has appeared again!) ;)

=> . . . membership updated.

[Watermom]

Read these two links: http://pool9.net/alk-step and http://pool9.net/muriatic/

They will explain why PoolDoc wants you to keep your pH on the low side and aerate your water as much as you can to try and drop your high TA.