HELP Cant See the Bottom

[7Iron]

I have a 5k gal above ground with large cartridge filter and 2 stage pump (1hp & 2hp). I took a sample to Leslie (monday 9 june) for confirmation of my own results using a Taylor kit:

Water very clear and bright
ok Chlorine 1 & 1
low pH 7.0
low alkalinity 80
OK Cyanuric 60
low calcium hardness 70

they provided additional tests
High Phosphates 1000
copper 1

so they had me use metal free and it caused the water to turn slightly milky. Called them and the had me to add another 8 oz. Told me not to correct pH or Alkalinity and not to chlorinate until we got the copper out...this continue for 3 days, taking sample in each day getting the same copper readings...by now the chlorine went to 0. I called Natural Chemistry, the maker of Free Metal and they said that it was only a chelating agent and the copper readings would not change. I shared this with the tech at Leslie and he couldnt believe it.

He had me to adjust my alkalinity with sodium bicarbonate and it is now 110, but the milkyness was still there.

Yesterday, Shocked with 1/2# chlor bright (sodium diclolor s tra dih 99%) and oxidized with 1 #pool breeze (potassium monopersulfate 44.7%) and 1# Fresh'N'Clear (potassium peroxymonosulfate 38%) , and attempted to alter pH.... added 1.5 lbs sodium carbonate.....After 4 hours, no change to pH and no chlorine reading and still slightly milky, so they had me to add 4 oz Ultra Bright clarifier "blend of polymers" ....that did not do anything

I used the other half of the 1lb bag and put to 3" tabs in the skimmer...and added another 1.5 lbs sodium carbonate*

This morning I had 3&3 (total and free), and pH of 7; took sample to Leslie's and they confirmed my own test readings

Free&Total: 3
Cyanuric: 60
Alkalinity: 110
pH still 7.0

they also tested*
Hardines: now 120?
Phosphates : now 500 ( but i think this diff is test strip reading variation)

They had me to add an algae control (poly[oxyenthylend(dimethylimino)ethylent(dimethyliminio )ethylene dichloride] and that is when my pool went*totally milky...cant see the bottom of pool, they also had me to add 2 lbs of sodium carbonate

Now 4 hours later I have totally milky water with, ok alkanlinity, 7.0 pH and chlorine at 1 & 1


Help

[PoolDoc]

I have a 5k gal above ground with large cartridge filter and 2 stage pump (1hp & 2hp).

Do you mean a 2-SPEED pump? If so, put it on low.

I read through your chemical list:

added metal free . . . adjust my alkalinity with sodium bicarbonate . . . 1/2# chlor bright (sodium diclolor s tra dih 99%) . . . . oxidized with 1 #pool breeze (potassium monopersulfate 44.7%) . . . 1# Fresh'N'Clear (potassium peroxymonosulfate 38%) ... added 1.5 lbs sodium carbonate.....4 oz Ultra Bright clarifier "blend of polymers" .... used the other half of the 1lb bag and put to 3" tabs in the skimmer...added 1.5 lbs sodium carbonate . . . add an algae control (poly[oxyenthylend(dimethylimino)ethylent(dimethyliminio )ethylene dichloride] ... add 2 lbs of sodium carbonate

You, my friend, have been "pool-stored". Badly.

Your pool is WORSE OFF, than it was before you started adding goop. (By the way, the poly. .. thing is just what we call polyquat. We occasionally recommend it.) I'm really surprised the tech at Natural Chemistry admitted that Metal Free does NOT remove the copper: it just *moves* it, from the stained areas to the water. If you didn't have stains . . . it did exactly NOTHING, except complicate things and waste money.

Cleaning up chemical hobo soup is never fun, because we're into various chemical interactions that are too complicated for even "Chem_Geek" to figure out. In other words, NOBODY knows what's happening in your pool.

Here's your best option:

1. Unless water is really expensive where every you are, drain your pool and refill. If you've got a soft-side pool like an Intex or a Summer Escapes, you could spend a month trying to clear your water, using their undersized filters.

2. Complete the pool equipment form, so I can have a better idea what you have to work with: http://pool9.net/pf-equip-form

3. Read the Super Simple recipe page: that's the easiest way to start up a 5k gal pool: http://pool9.net/ssr/

[chem geek]

This looks like a duplicate of this thread (http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/78308-Unable-to-see-bottom) at TFP where I had already responded. You need to pick ONE forum and stick with it, otherwise you're likely to get confused. Though the advice may be similar in some respects, it might diverge in others and worst of all might be conflicting at different points in time.

As I described in my post in the other thread, the METALfree product and the Polyquat algaecide are completely incompatible and produce a precipitated cloudy mess.

Ben's suggestion of water replacement is probably the fastest and surefire way to get the water clear. If your small pool only has one return, one skimmer, and no floor drain, then it may have terrible bottom circulation. Pointing the return diagonally downwards might help to move the cloudy material to the filter.

Ben, note that the cartridge filter is said to be "large". For the pool not to clear after 24/7 pumping for 4 days, there must either be some tears or bypassing of that cartridge filter (or blowing through it) or the circulation must be terrible in some areas of the pool. Usually the combination of the two polymers is an easily removed precipitate, not a colloid that can't be filtered.

[chem geek]

FYI (from the other thread), the lower pump speed and maintaining a proper chlorine level seems to be doing the trick and the pool is clearing up. It's down to a 1 out of 10 where 0 is clear and 10 was the cloudy mess from the combined milky chemical precipitate of polymeric metal sequestrant with polymeric algicide/clarifier.

[PoolDoc]

If he's posting there, I'll close the thread, here. There's no reason for two of them running.

Thanks, Chem_Geek.