cloudy water

[poolmompa]

We took the mesh safety cover off of our pool Memorial Day weekend, only to find that the pump died. Finally had a new pump installed this past Monday & have been running the filter 24/7 since. Started with very dark green water. Since Monday, I've added 5 gallons of liquid chlorine twice & also superchlorinated with dichlor granular once, as well as having trichlor tabs in a floating container. It's been raining often for the past few days but I've also been brushing as often as I can. Right now, I have cloudy water that's mostly blue.

I do not have a Taylor 2006 (yet). I've been using a Taylor Deluxe DPD kit which I can use to test for chlorine, pH, & TA. I tested the water at 5:30p yesterday & here were the #s:

FC 0.5 / TC 1
pH around 7.0 (color seemed between 6.8 & 7.2)
TA 60

I did bring a water sample to the local pool store this afternoon so I could get a Stabilizer #. The reading they gave me for FC & pH seemed similar to mine from last night, which was nice to see since I've read on here that pool store reading are usually way off. This is a small local store & so far, I've received decent advice without trying to sell me add'l chemicals, so I'm hopeful. Here are the #s I got:

FC 0.0 / TC 0.3
pH 7.0
TA 85
Calcium Hardness 50 (although I have a vinyl liner & no heater so n/a)
Stabilizer 105
Phosphate 600

I got another 5 gallons of liquid chlorine & put it in as soon as I got home. That was the 2nd 5 gallon dose this week.

My questions are: 1) Is the Stabilizer level high? 2) Based on the Stabilizer level, how high do I need to get the chlorine?

I have an IG 18' x 36' vinyl liner pool. DE filter, 1 HP Hayward single speed Super Pump.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!!!

[PoolDoc]

Your chlorine levels need to be set from the cl-cya page => http://pool9.net/cl-cya

[Watermom]

Your pH is also low. Use some 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle at Walmart) to bump it some.

[poolmompa]

Thank you PoolDoc & Watermom. I did pick up Borax this morning but I am a little confused. I've also read to use washing soda to raise pH so when do you use Borax & when is washing soda used? Is one used exclusively, meaning once you use Borax, you always use Borax?

Also, is 105 too high for CYA for my size pool? Should I discontinue using trichlor tabs? (I'm still shocking the water; today I used cal hypo)

[PoolDoc]

Borax raises pH without increasing your carbonate alkalinity. With your current readings, that's not a problem, so you can use washing soda (soda ash, pH UP) if you like

We tend to recommend bleach and borax, until we are really sure about a pool, since we don't have to worry about unwanted side effects with those two products.

[Watermom]

105 is a pretty high CYA reading but whether to stop trichlor or not depends on a few things:
-- How many tabs do you have left?
-- Are they wrapped or unwrapped tabs?

Read this: http://pool9.net/chem/store/

[poolmompa]

105 is a pretty high CYA reading but whether to stop trichlor or not depends on a few things:
-- How many tabs do you have left?
-- Are they wrapped or unwrapped tabs?

Read this: http://pool9.net/chem/store/

Watermom,
I have about 20 3" trichlor tabs left (unwrapped) & 4 lbs of dichlor. I bought the trichlor Spring 2013. The dichlor bags came in the closing/opening kit I bought Fall 2013.

Update:
Fri, 6/13 - added 2 c. borax

Sat. am -
FC 0.5 (still)
pH 6.8 (still)
TA 50
Added last bag of cal hypo I had, plus 2 gallons of bleach my hubby brought home. Couple of hours later, I tested again - no change. Added 2 more cups of borax & ran to store for more bleach. Tested again a few times, every couple of hours, with no changes & continued shocking. By 6pm, I had added 3 gal. of liquid chlorine & 3 gal. of bleach. I decided I wasn't fooling around anymore, went to the store & bought a ton of liquid chlorine & bleach. At 10:30 pm, I added 5 gal. of liquid chlorine.

Sun. am -
FC was still 0.5! I added 6 gal. of bleach & then a couple of hours later I added 4 more gal. of bleach.

This morning, the FC was at least 5 (that's the highest reading I could get). I had events to attend at my kids' school so I couldn't bring any water to be tested, to try to get a more accurate reading above 5. I also knew it was going to be sunny & hot so I added the last 4 gal. of bleach I had. At 4pm, the chlorine was still at least 5 so I'm hoping the algae is now completely dead. My pH is still only 6.8 so I added 2 more cups of borax. At 8pm, I tested & added another 2 cups.

There is no visible trace of any green. The water is milky white. I wanted to vacuum to waste but I can't see what I'm doing because I can't see the vacuum once it's in the water. I can only see a few inches. Tomorrow morning, I going out to get more borax. Any suggestion of how much I should get?

My kids are dying to go swimming! I'm hoping I'll wake up to a less cloudy pool tomorrow morning!

Thanks for the advice so far & please continue to share any other advice.

[Watermom]

That is one of the limitations of a DPD chlorine testing kit --- DPD can bleach out at high levels. It may be that you have had chlorine at times when you've tested but it is just bleaching out the reagent. Go to Walmart and pick up a cheap OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops). It will not bleach out at high chlorine levels. Use it to test right now while you are working to clear the pool. You can use the chart at this link to help decipher readings that are higher than will show on the OTO kit. http://pool9.net/oto-chart/

If your pH is registering 6.8 on your kit, it could actually be much lower than that since that is as low as the test will show. Add bigger doses of Borax until the pH starts moving. Add a half a box at a time. Test two hours later and add more. Keep at it. Low pH is a critical issue as it can damage your pool. I'd probably buy about 4 or 5 boxes. If that is more than you end up needing, it doesn't go bad.

It would probably also help to bring your TA up some. Aim for 80-100ppm. Add a couple of lbs. at a time, wait a couple hours, retest, redose. It is fine to add Borax and baking soda one right after the other with no problem.

[PoolDoc]

You listed a DE filter on the equipment form.

With a functioning DE filter your pool should clear very quickly, if you run the pump 24/7. However, if you haven't opened and washed down the filter this season, it would be a good time to do so.

[poolmompa]

PoolDoc,
My husband actually opened up the filter & cleaned it all up a few weeks ago. Pressure gauge has been at about 16. Leslies is coming back out tomorrow though because there is a suction leak somewhere & they installed our new pump last week. So the filter may not be operating optimally right now.

Watermom,
I do have a Taylor kit (although not the K2006) with yellow and red drops. But is the OTO/Phenol kit different?

Also, I know I've read to pour the Borax slowly into the skimmer but the Hayward pump manual says that adding any chemicals directly into the skimmer voids the warranty. So I've been diluting it first. Is it less effective that way?

[poolmompa]

One other thing - I've read posts on here about high chlorine & high pH. But my pH hasn't budged with the high chlorine. Any thoughts?

[PoolDoc]

+ Yellow / red drops = OTO / phenol red.

+ Borax won't void warranties, not least because it will have no effect, so they won't be able to tell. Just don't pour so fast that you 'choke' the skimmer. Borax can form a solid plug, that will take FOREVER to dissolve.

[poolmompa]

I wanted to post a picture but it appears that I can't. Half of my pool's surface is covered with white swirls.

[PoolDoc]

You can, but I have mostly disabled the forum software's attachment system . . . because it's a total mess.

Just upload your picture to Google Drive, Picasa, Flickr, Photobucket, etc. and then LINK to it, using this button: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/images/editor/insertimage.png

[poolmompa]

Here goes:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76085564@N06/14468474433/
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3865/14468474433_7cc16c4152_b.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Have you used pool store algaecides?

That's what it looks like.

[poolmompa]

No, the only product other than BBB I put in it this season was Metal Free on 6-9-14 (see my other thread "looking for opinions on using Metal Free"). I only used it because it was in the opening kit & I was following the opening instructions, which my husband said he always follows. I then started shocking with liquid chlorine & bleach.

I added 1 1/2 boxes of Borax (1/2 box at a time) & 2 lbs of baking soda, this afternoon & evening. I last tested around 5pm but pH hadn't budged. TA went from 60 to 70. I had to go out this evening so I couldn't test after 5pm. I will test in the am.

Thanks for all your advice!

[PoolDoc]

No idea, then.

All I can say is, in almost every case, once you've got the basics right -- chlorine, pH, & CYA, the weird stuff goes away. So, keep filtering and chlorinating!

[poolmompa]

OK, I've been testing & adding 1/2 box of Borax at a time (as well as keeping chlorine levels up with bleach), & pH finally started to increase. As of this morning, here are the latest readings:

FC 3.6
pH 7.3
TA 105
CYA 100

Chlorine has been holding fairly steady, & water is still blue, so I think algae is gone. It's still cloudy but I can see further down than before (about 2 feet). I do have a bottle of 60% poly algaecide which I've read in other posts can help. Do you think I should try it?

[PoolDoc]

A working DE filter is going to get all the particles -- by itself -- that polyquat or a stronger clarifer would help with.

I think your best chance of cleaning the pool is to raise your FC to 20 ppm, and keep it there, till the pool clears. With a CYA=100, 20 ppm is NOT too high, even for swimming.

By the way, use the 10mL sample with your K2006 -- you don't need to measure to the nearest 0.2 ppm -- and your reagents will last longer. Also, if you get full color with the first dropper of powder, you don't need to add a 2nd dropper.

The OTHER thing you might do is to disassemble your filter (I assume it's a Perflex) and clean it fully. Unless the fingers have scale on them, simply spraying them off will be enough. Wear your OLD swim suit for this; it tends to be a nasty task.

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA-an54IVLc) illustrates the task well, except for the fact that they are using a clean filter and recommend an un-needed proprietary cleaner. If you DO need to clean the filter, you can use an plain powdered laundry detergent + a cup of bleach. If scale is present, you WILL use muriatic acid 1 gallon to 5 gallons in the 2nd pass, but ONLY if there is scale and ONLY if you have first cleaned and degreased it. (Hayward manual (https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/Perflex-EC65A-EC75A.pdf))