Low pH, Hardness, Alk, where do I start?

[ChrissyInOregon]

CYA 35 (finally dissolved all the stabilizer yesterday)
Hardness 40
Alk 40
pH 6.8 or under (was around 7.0 yesterday)
Chlorine: Been using bleach but have the SWCG hooked up. Just haven't turned it on yet. Today's afternoon reading is in the 3-6ppm range.
These were all measured with liquid tests, not the strips.

I have borax and baking soda. Pool is approx 5061 gallons. What should I worry about first?

[Watermom]

Low pH is a priority but actually, you can work on both of those at the same time. Add a couple of cups of Borax slowly to the skimmer while the pump is running. Then, add some baking soda. (It's ok to do so right after the Borax.) For every pound of baking soda you add, it should raise the alk by about 15ppm. Aim for 80-100ppm. You might want to add the baking soda in a couple of doses instead of trying to get there in one big dose. A couple hours after adding, retest and add more Borax if needed. You need to get it above 7.0 asap.

Don't worry about low CH. It is only a problem in a vinyl pool if it is high.

[ChrissyInOregon]

I don't have a skimmer on the pool. Can I just dump it in, or should I put it in a sock, like the CYA?

[ChrissyInOregon]

I just read that you shouldn't use Borax if there is copper in your pool. Will this harm my SWCG?

[PoolDoc]

Borax will have no effect on your SWCG.

Borax is not an issue with copper; rather it's high pH that makes copper more likely to stain. Copper is likely to stain, even at lower pH, but it's MORE likely at a high pH.

[Pappy]

Borax shouldn't hurt you SWCG. Lots of the folks here have SWCGs and use borax. A copper ionizer is built in to your SWCG. Where did you read not to put borax in a pool with copper, and what was the reason. I suspect the fear is that as the pH goes up the copper will start dropping out of the water and begin staining.

[ChrissyInOregon]

This is the thread where I read about borax/copper:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/18597-Adding-Borax-to-Make-your-Pool-Resistant-to-Algae

[Pappy]

Thanks, staining is the issue raised in that thread.

[PoolDoc]

I think that says borates help, not hurt.


Borates are also a pH buffer in a range that's especially beneficial to SWCG (Salt Water Chlorine Generator) users.

[ChrissyInOregon]

I added the 2 cups of borax and 1lb of baking soda. Today my readings are:

Hardness 60 (+20 from yesterday)
Alk 40 (same as yesterday)
pH 7.2 (up from 6.8 yesterday)
Chlorine Still 3-6ppm, even though I did not add any chlorine yesterday. The pool is in direct sun.

Should I give the pool the same dose of borax and baking soda as yesterday?

What about the chlorine? This is testing with the OTO test. I don't have the other type.

[Watermom]

The OTO tester can also be used to measure bromine and thus has a bromine column on it. I'm assuming that when you say that your chlorine is 3-6, you mean 3 and the 6 is in the bromine column. (Just ignore that.)

Go ahead and add some more bleach to get back up to about 6ppm --- assuming that I am right in my assumption above.

Yes to your question about another dose of Borax and baking soda.

No need to test calcium hardness. CH is only an issue in a vinyl or soft-sided pool if it is too high. Yours is fine.

Do you have an HTH 6-way drops kit or an OTO kit? Just wondering how you got your CYA reading.

[ChrissyInOregon]

Yes, I'm using the HTH 6-way test kit.

You're right about the chlorine and bromine columns. I had not noticed that before, and was thinking it was a chlorine reading of between 3-6ppm, when actually the chlorine is 3ppm.

I got the CYA reading with the HTH 6-way kit. I purchased the kit last year and it contains two CYA tests. I used the second one this year.

[Watermom]

You might think about picking up the add-on kit Taylor K1515. That gives you the chlorine test that your 6-Way doesn't have that allows you to measure higher chlorine levels than 5. You also can order more of the CYA reagent R-0013. Both of these can be found through this link:

http://pool9.net/tk/

[ChrissyInOregon]

After one more dose of Borax (2 cups) and 1lb baking soda yesterday, today's readings:

Alk 80
pH 7.8
Chlorine 1ppm

I'm surprised that the chlorine is not burning off faster. Does this seem right? The pool has only been swam in once since we filled it, because the weather has been cooler.

The pH jumped a lot after just the one dose.

What should I do about the alkalinity?

[Watermom]

You don't need to do anything about the alk. It is just fine. Are you adding bleach?

[ChrissyInOregon]

I have not added any bleach in the last couple days because I wanted to get a feel for how much was needed. The Taylor K-1515-A test kit has been sold out on Amazon. Is there another place online to order them? What price range is to be expected?

[Watermom]

Google for it. I just did and found a couple of places that have it. Just make sure it is the Taylor K1515 FAS-DPD kit. A couple of links that showed up when I did my search were for other kits. The K1515A will have 0.75 oz bottles and the K1515C will have 2-oz. bottles.

I actually did find the K1515C on Amazon for $46. At the time I am writing this post, they show 4 available.
Taylor K-1515-C- Drop Test, FAS-DPD Chlorine, (2 oz reagent bottles) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003V54GUG/scouscho-20/)

I also found a Taylor K1515A for $21.63 from this place. (I don't know anything about this company.)
http://pstpoolsupplies.com/taylor-technologies-drop-test-fas-dpd-chlorine.aspx?gclid=CP7CoorE-b4CFZRQOgodZRwAqw ($21.63 -- 3/4 oz reagent bottles)
.

[PoolDoc]

At the time I am writing this post, they show 4 available

Going fast! Now down to 2, and Amato probably won't re-stock till Monday.

[BigDave]

Can you remove / disconnect the copper ionizer unit on the SWCG so you won't add more copper to the pool?

[ChrissyInOregon]

Can you remove / disconnect the copper ionizer unit on the SWCG so you won't add more copper to the pool?

I saw this mentioned somewhere else, but no instructions were given.

So I just tested again, and the pool still has chlorine in it. Does that seem odd? I went ahead and added more bleach. No one is swimming this weekend because the weather is too cool and the water temp has dropped.

[gamtire1200]

Chrissy and all,

I am 1st time poster. I read your post about the low ph. I have had the same problem for 2 years. I have been dumping baking soda with no movement on the scale. Went get the Borax Mule 20 and put 12 boxes over 3 days. ph is at 7.4. Thanks to all.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. BayouMac

[ChrissyInOregon]

6/13 readings:

Alk 80
pH 7.8
Chlorine 1ppm

It has been cool here, so no one has been in the pool. We had some rain this weekend. The pool temp was down to 66, but today was up to 71. I put 4 round, approx 6ft solar cover circles on the pool on Friday (because I'm cheap and they were $3.41 each instead of $50+ for a 16ft cover). They're down to $3 now:
Intex Round Solar Pool Cover (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00AA8ABS8/scouscho-20/)
I tested my water early evening and the pH has dropped to around 7.6, and the Alk has dropped to 70ppm. Is this from the rain, and the little bit of hose water I put in this afternoon? Should I add more borax? Baking soda? What numbers would you shoot for, and how much should I obsess about this?

The SWCG has been running 1hr/day and the chlorine is at 3ppm today.
.

[BigDave]

... pH has dropped to around 7.6, and the Alk has dropped to 70ppm. Is this from the rain, and the little bit of hose water I put in this afternoon? Should I add more borax? Baking soda? What numbers would you shoot for, and how much should I obsess about this?

The SWCG has been running 1hr/day and the chlorine is at 3ppm today.pH between 7.0 and 8.0 is fine - no need to adjust. If the pH keeps falling to 7.0 then you may want to add some baking soda to raise TA as well as some Borax to raise pH.

Shoot for pH between 7.0 and 8.0 and don't obsess about it.

3ppm is as low as you want to let FC go - especially with a small volume of water. It might be a good idea to add CYA and increase FC target to keep a reserve of chlorine in the water.