My cloudy pool

[nateshirk]

Long story short
Just bought the house in September. My first pool. It never was crystal clear last year, so I had it closed by a local pool co. because I didn't want to mess with it until this year. This year I guess I wasn't shocking it as hard as I was supposed to (normal shock level instead of 3x the shock level). I feel like my numbers are where they should be, but I just can't shake the cloudiness. I knew I couldn't start the BBB way because my wife is sceptical of info from the internet, and I'm assuming I have a filter issue, so if I don't do what the pool store says first, she'll blame me for not listening to her, when it's probably an issue with filtering. So, we're currently shocking the pool per the pool stores instructions. 3x shock last night, 2x shock tonight, and a normal shock tomorrow night. All granular calcium hypochlorite. I got the Taylor k2006 because once it's all figured out, I'll convert to the BBB way. Here's my results as of today. I'll add the pic if I can figure that part out.
FC=12.5 (just shocked last night)
CC=0
CYA=48ish?
Alk=170
Ph=7.8
[img]https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4ldiXcHagi0YmJSTlE5ck5jQWs/edit?usp=docslist_api[\img]

[Watermom]

It really doesn't work to try and combine pool store advice and ours. So, you kinda have to decide what you want to do. We are glad to help if that is the route you want to take but you really can't take a little of our advice and a little of their advice and make things work too well. Let us know. We'll be here to help if you decide to jump in and do BBB! :)

[nateshirk]

I just thought someone might have a little insight as to why the pool would still be cloudy when the chemistry seems good. Some people claim to keep their sand for 20 years, others say it won't last 3, 5, or 7 years. Will a broken lateral cause cloudiness or just throw sand in the bottom of the pool? I also forgot to mention my furthest skimmer is sucking in air. Will I benefit more if I close it off, so no more air gets in the lines, or will leaving it open still filter more water?

[Watermom]

What is your calcium hardness reading?

Sand lasts indefinitely. It doesn't wear out.

I'll let someone else address your mechanical issues.

[nateshirk]

Calcium hardness was hard for me to tell being color blind, but I'm pretty sure it was around 40-50ppm. I can get a more acurate reading if needed. I heard hardness doesn't matter with a vinyl liner though. I'll put that in my Sig.

[Watermom]

The reason I asked is because high pH + high TA + high calcium hardness can = cloudy water. (Otherwise, you are right, CH is not an issue in a vinyl pool.) Have you been using cal-hypo for awhile? Maybe run that test again and let your wife read the results of it.

Was your pool green when you opened it this spring?

See if you can find a small bag of DE. Throw a handful into the skimmer while your pump is running and watch the return jets. If you see white powder shooting back out, your filter is not working properly. If it doesn't shoot out, then the DE may actually help your filter work a little better. More about that here: http://pool9.net/de-test/

[nateshirk]

Yes, the pool was very green when I opened it. I was using the single lb. bags if shock so far. And baking soda to raise the ph. I tried a clarifier once but didn't want to keep dumping stuff in the pool. I did buy floc (again because of my wife, and the rumors she heard), but didn't throw it in because I just don't think it will help (according to this forum).

[Watermom]

Let us know when you try the DE test. Also, post current readings again. How does the water look today? Any better?

[nateshirk]

So we triple shocked (84oz. of calhypo) Sunday night and got rain overnight, double shocked (56oz.) Monday night and got rain overnight, Tuesday morning I vacuumed and threw a single shock (28oz.) in because if the rain, and Tuesday evening my wife single shocked (28oz.) And more rain. Today (Wednesday), around 6pm, the readings were...

FC=13.5
CC=1
pH=7.6
All=150
CYA=48
Hardness was 150ish

Pool is getting clearer, but stil has debri (dead algie?) on the bottom. I'll vacuum again in the morning. It's supposed to rain again tonight. Should I keep shocking until it's clear? Or should it be clear by now? Also, when doing the calcium harness test, I can see small particles suspended in the water. They seem to turn blue when the water does. Is that normal? Or is that what's causing the cloudiness? Thanks for the replies so far.

[Watermom]

You might want to start just using bleach instead of cal-hypo.

You do need to keep shocking until two conditions are met:
1) You can go from sundown one evening to within an hour of sunrise the next morning without losing more than 1ppm of chlorine AND
2) You have no more than 0.5CC.

Then, we usually advise keeping the chlorine high for one additional day for added insurance and then let it drift down and keep it within the proper ranges based on your CYA level. A chart that explains the connection between CYA and chlorine can be found at the following link: http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

Have you tried the DE test yet so we can verify that your filter is working properly?

[nateshirk]

I have not tried the DE. I haven't had a chance to get any. But I may wait because doesn't back washing clear out the DE? I'm constantly back washing from vacuuming. Will all the rain affect the chlorine level overnight? It's raining as I type. Can I use the sodium hypochlorite from the pool store, since I already have it, or just go to bleach? They're the same thing right? Just different concentrates?

[Watermom]

Backwashing will clear it out but if there is a problem with your filter, it will help find it and potentially help you get the pool clear faster.

The main problem with rain is that people don't go out and check their pools and thus chlorine levels get low. Just be sure you keep chlorine levels up. In my pool, a lot of rain will lower my pH.

You are right that bleach is sodium hypochlorite, usually 8.25% and yours may be 10 or 12.5%. (If it is at the advertised concentration although often that is not the case.)

[nateshirk]

FC was 12ppm this morning around 10am. No where near sunrise, but still good right? CC is 0, pH 7.6, TA 150. Didn't think I needed to test CYA and hardness again. Pool looks clearer. I can't vacuum yet because the water level is low from vacuuming to waste yesterday.

[Watermom]

Glad to hear that you are making progress.

To know when you have passed the overnight test, you need two numbers to compare. In the evening, add enough bleach to get to shock level. An hour or so later, retest the chlorine and make note of the reading. The next morning within an hour of sunrise, test the chlorine again and compare it to the reading from the night before. (The reason for wanting to get a morning reading before there is much sun on the pool is because sunlight will also drop the chlorine. Chlorine loss overnight when there is no sun is strictly from oxidizing stuff in the water. You need to be able to tell how much chlorine was used sanitizing without loss to the sun being a factor. Does that make sense?)

So, shock it again tonight and compare numbers in the morning and then post with results. Sounds like you are on the right track!

[nateshirk]

What should the chlorine level be for this type of shock? Am I supposed to jump it up to around 30ppm or is my level of 12ppm still shocking the pool?

[Watermom]

With a CYA level around 50ppm, your shock level would be around 15ppm. http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

What is the percentage of sodium hypochlorite in the liquid chlorine that you have?

(Also, please update your signature to say that you have a K2006. You can do so by clicking on the tab in my signature below.)

[nateshirk]

12.5% sodium hypochlorite. So I need to keep it at 15ppm all day everyday until it clears up? Even if it drops during the day, should I add chlorine to keep it at 15ppm, or just wait until night?

[Watermom]

Assuming that it actually is 12.5% (and may not be as it degrades), each gallon would add about 4.5ppm of chlorine.

The best time to add chlorine is in the evening but if you are around during the day you can certainly add more then as well.

[nateshirk]

When testing chlorine, it says to add 2 dippers of R-0870. If my water already turns pink after the first supper, is the second one necessary? Just curious.

Also, 1 of my 2 skimmers pulls air into the filtering system. I have it shut off. Would it be more beneficial to leave it open and let it suck in the air too, or just keep it shut off? How much could this be hurting the process?

[Watermom]

If one dipper turns the sample pink, no need to add the second one.

I don't know about the skimmer question.

[nateshirk]

It's still getting clearer. I guess one ingredient that doesn't get mentioned much is patience. What's your take on floc? It seems like there's such a fine "dust" of algie. Wouldn't floc clump it to the bottom, and help vacuum it up quicker? I think I already know your answer. I just need this to be ready for our party in 2 weeks.

[Watermom]

Have you passed the "overnight test" yet?

Did you ever try the DE test to verify that your filter is working properly?

What does your water look like?

Can you post current readings?

[Pappy]

The only "floc" I see regularly recommended here is the Kem-Tek 60% polyquat. I'm not sure it will help in your situation though.

[Watermom]

Polyquat 60% helps somewhat as a clarifier rather than a floc.

[nateshirk]

I haven't done the overnight test yet. I'll try tonight. No DE yet either. Am I just looking for DE to shoot back out through the returns? The water looks clearer everyday but still with algie on the bottom. It just seems like its still dying and falling to the bottom, so we've been keeping the chlorine level around 15ppm and vacuuming every day. Readings to come.

[Watermom]

With the DE test, you are looking to see if the DE shoots back out of the return jet. How many days have you been keeping the chlorine at 15ppm? Have you done so consistently or is it kind of "yo-yoing" up and down? I just looked back and this thread started on the 9th. I would think your algae would be dead by now. If you aren't consistent with your chlorine levels, the algae is winning.

[nateshirk]

It has yo-yo'ed. It just read 10 ppm. I'm going to dump in about 2gallons of 12.5%, then recheck in a while.

[Watermom]

It has yo-yo'ed.
That may be why it is taking so long.

[sabres07]

About all I can add here is that if you just simply follow the instructions given in this forum TO THE LETTER, you will have a clean, sparkly pool in no time. If you deviate, you just add more time to the process. It really is a simple matter of patience and dilligence.

[Watermom]

It really is a simple matter of patience and dilligence.
That is very true!