Hayward Ecostar Pump - Air Issues?

[jevincent1]

i recently had a new Hayward EcoStar pump installed for my underground pool (actually 2, first one was bad). Pump appears to be working correctly, but I get air in the strainer basket. I've tried various speeds up to what is recommended by Hayward and no change (to take restricted flow from the suction piping out of the equation). The air bubble continues to grow. Pool Service company came out and pressure tested the suction lines and piping, and we were not losing any pressure. They strongly believe that if I had installed a 3/4 hp normal pump I'd have no air and no issues (due to fan speed being 3450 rpm full time).

I also called Haywards technical support. They said that there should be no air in the strainer chamber once optimal flow is determined, but I tried all speeds available including 3450rpm which trips my 20amp / 220 breaker, and didn't notice any real difference (water is moving quicker, but air is still entering pump strainer basket).

Any thoughts on what to try next? I bleed off quite a bit of air from the filter at least once per day, all strainers are clean, and I cleaned out the filter.

Pool is 27.5k gals with 2" suction and return lines coming and going from pool equipment (they both split further into 1 1/2" lines for the skimmers and returns. The junction for the suction piping is a new jandy flow control valve. Starite Cartridge filter, and Starite 400k heater.

Joe


Joe

[BigDave]

I have that pump. The strainer lid holds alot of air in the best circumstance and it take a long time (weeks) for it to be dissolved in the water especially at low speed. If the air pocket is increasing, the air is coming from somewhere.

First thing I'd look at is the O-ring gasket in the strainer lid. Make sure it's clean and seated properly. Same for it's mating surface on the top of the strainer body. Some silicone lube can help but be careful to keep the lube clean - it's a magnet for dirt and debris.
Next I'd examine the O-ring gasket in the inlet union and the pump's drain plugs(also have O-rings).
If that's all good, some have found success hunting suction leaks with shaving cream - slather it on and look for it to get sucked in. Don't put alot of shaving foam in the pool. Others have used Saran wrap.

It's not sucking air in the skimmer is it? My skimmer makes a vortex that will bring air right down if I don't keep a rock in the skimmer to break up the flow.

[jevincent1]

The air pocket is definitely increasing, as I need to bleed the air daily from the filter.

The pool company checked the pressure between the two surface skimmers and suction inlet in the strainer area. They said they did not need to check the main drain since it connected to a surface skimmer before running back to the pump (I asked twice). No pressure loss was detected. The technician noted that all was fine, and they didn't believe their was a problem.

I did look at the lid, but it appeared recessed and out of reach. I'll take another look at it. I'll also give the shaving cream around the drain plug and strainer lid a try to see if anything shows up.

I did not notice a vortex in either of the two surface skimmers.

Thanks for the help!

[BigDave]

Yea, the lid design does make it hard to get to the O-ring. I haven't had the nerve to remove it yet but I do clean it with a cloth and work some lube onto it with a Q-tip. Be sure to use silicone lube meant for this purpose.

Try the shaving cream on the plumbing joints as well. Perhaps it's tight under pressure but not under vacuum.

Good luck, let us know how it goes. Suction leaks are tough.

[jevincent1]

I tried to lube the strainer o ring, but no difference. Going to get shaving cream today. Can you elaborate on how the saran wrap method works? For the strainer lid, for example, would you take lid off, put saran wrap, then put the lid back on? Or wrap the entire stainer area with the lid already on?

[BigDave]

I haven't done it myself, read about it. I understand that plastic film would be wrapped around joints and inspected for evidence that it is being pulled into the joint. Shaving cream seems like it would be easier to observe. I wouldn't even try plastic film on the strainer lid - too many strange shapes.

[jevincent1]

After quite the mess with shaving cream, I found that on 2700 rpm, if I put shaving cream around the joints of the exposed suction piping connecting the skimmers to the 3 way valve, the bubbles were completely eliminated. I didn't see any shaving cream in the strainer basket, but it looks like it was thick enough to seal the leak for a couple of minutes.

Is that how it is supposed to work?

[BigDave]

I didn't think the shaving cream would seal the leak, just help find it. Wow. Now you know where the leak is. Are the joints glued or threaded?

[jevincent1]

Yep, it sealed it. I don't think it is large at all, just a tiny leak that allows air into the lid over time. The joints are glued - I have flex pipe coming out of the ground into a plastic 90 which is then piped into the valve for each of the two suction lines.

He was pretty impressed with the picture I sent him showing the entire thing covered in shaving cream and the clear lid showing a full prime with no air. He is sending a tech out to silicone each of the joints leading into the valve for both suction lines.

[BigDave]

That oughtta work. hmmm, will silicone adhere to shaving cream?

[jevincent1]

To close the loop on this thread, the Hayward pump turned out to be a great investment once the leads were sealed. There is still a void in the pump strainer basket if running on low speed, but no air into the filter. Once the speed hits a high enough flow, no void in the strainer basket.

I did see a benefit on my electric bill as well.

[BigDave]

Thanks for the follow up. I'm pretty happy with our pump (overall) as well. I can live with the air in the pump lid - it doesn't seem to be a problem.