criis
06-06-2006, 01:38 PM
As a follow-up, I'm down to three choices right now, Hayward, Lochinvar and Sta-rite. Raypak cust service is horrible and my heater croaked after just 5 years. Am told efficiencies are a moot point really for outdoor. Am told all mid level brands are roughly the same...Laars, Hayward, Starite, minmax. Jandy, Rapak. Lochinvar supposed to be the top of the line. Heat pumps are gaining in popularity and tankless heaters seem more spa oriented right now, but up and coming.
Pool service Co. #1 recommends "sta-rite" charges $2,750 installed, includes $50 removal fee, for a unit that runs about $1600 on-line. Considerable markup. Even if i bought it outright the markup is high saving only $300 off the $2,700. about 8-10 year life expec.
Pool service Co. #2 recommends Hayward as best choice but will be soon carrying Lochinvar as best possibly...Hayward pricing roughly the same installed about $2500 for a unit that can be found on-line for about $1300, includes removal and minimal savings for DIY'ers. 8-10 yrs.
All below is from a weeks worth of endless research, but opinion based from on-line and conversations with "Pool company owners"
Other brands/options:
NEW TECHNOLOGY
*Tankless Inc. Model sp-24-4 98.9% efficiency electric. Newer technology. Europeans long have laughed at us for heating water we aren't using. (This will be the way of things by 2015 I'm beiong told inside and out). 82,000BTU. 5yrs pump and electrical, 10 years other. Impressive but you have to have a pool cover, which I have. Can handle up to 100,000 gallon swimming pools, consistently maintain 84 to 89 degrees Fahrenheit even in the winter! guaranteed to cost less to operate, but no idea of the pricing abvailability, electircal heating element replacement.
*Heat pumps. Im in New england, and have always been told heat pumps even the new ones, are not going to get us into the 80's when the ave temp here in Mass is about 75 degrees. Pool stores and others now say that is not so and this is best choice but initial outlay is very high...double the cost of others $4200 installed. Slow to heat up but great at maintaining temp. Sort of a reverse A/c unit...coils heat up rather than freeze over.
*Machines that convert whole house A/C compressor heat and hot air into pool heat. Unfortunatley takes more heat / energy to heat the pool than to cool the house, so higher heat levels difficult to come by tkaes longer to heat up.
* Solar. Unless you live in a sunny state...solar panels are hideous and heat level not great. still th etechnology is improving.
*Wind power...ummmmm sure.
*Am told that if you are used to instant heat from Gas, the technologies above will be harder adjustments, depends on expectation levels and perhaps natural or LP gas prices to come?
Lower-mid level (raypak,
*Raypak - mine lasted 5 years and cust service less than that. blahh...
*Minmax Stainless burners, ceramic tile, 2 year warranty, hot surface ignition 86% efficient. Thermostat drywell to prevent corrosion? about $2000 installed. Lots of deent features for little dollar by comparision.
Mid-to upper level (jandy, laars, starite, hayward)
*Starite boasts a composite shell, PMG combustion technology for 85% efficiency weighs less than 125 pounds, and a rotating top, LED indicator lights and 360 degree access to internals. Rust-Proof Duraglas Enclosure with 10 year warranty on but big deal. standard 2yr on most other parts. Exact Temperature Controls, Full diagnostics for troubleshooting problems
*Hayward My local pool store swears by them. Stay away from millivolt stick with digital operation. About $2700 installed. $2200 if you do it yourself. But removal of exisiting is an issue.
Upper level (considered to be the best by about 4 "experts" I spoke to.)
*Lochinvar Energyrite Heater. 89% efficiency. Gas. 400,000 BTU's Hot Surface Ignition, Air Proving Switch to check for blocked vents, two levels of self-diagnostics, one each for homeowner/service technician, Posi Vent Power Induced Blower for burner operation, remote control. The combustion chamber uses Ceramic Tiles. Combustion chamber is completely sealed to keep out wind, spiders rodents that like the wriing tht come with the digitals. Outer jacket is 16 gauge galvanized steel, most others seem to be 18, 20, 22. Corrosion-resistant bronze header by-pass. 3 yrs heat exchanger /2 yrs other parts. $1999-$3000 depending on where you get it, on-line, froma dealer, installed or not... 10-15 years
I still have not made a decision, but leaning Lochinvar...Got tired of millivolt Rapak triage...justt wanna enjoy...anyone have experience with Lochinvar?
Pool service Co. #1 recommends "sta-rite" charges $2,750 installed, includes $50 removal fee, for a unit that runs about $1600 on-line. Considerable markup. Even if i bought it outright the markup is high saving only $300 off the $2,700. about 8-10 year life expec.
Pool service Co. #2 recommends Hayward as best choice but will be soon carrying Lochinvar as best possibly...Hayward pricing roughly the same installed about $2500 for a unit that can be found on-line for about $1300, includes removal and minimal savings for DIY'ers. 8-10 yrs.
All below is from a weeks worth of endless research, but opinion based from on-line and conversations with "Pool company owners"
Other brands/options:
NEW TECHNOLOGY
*Tankless Inc. Model sp-24-4 98.9% efficiency electric. Newer technology. Europeans long have laughed at us for heating water we aren't using. (This will be the way of things by 2015 I'm beiong told inside and out). 82,000BTU. 5yrs pump and electrical, 10 years other. Impressive but you have to have a pool cover, which I have. Can handle up to 100,000 gallon swimming pools, consistently maintain 84 to 89 degrees Fahrenheit even in the winter! guaranteed to cost less to operate, but no idea of the pricing abvailability, electircal heating element replacement.
*Heat pumps. Im in New england, and have always been told heat pumps even the new ones, are not going to get us into the 80's when the ave temp here in Mass is about 75 degrees. Pool stores and others now say that is not so and this is best choice but initial outlay is very high...double the cost of others $4200 installed. Slow to heat up but great at maintaining temp. Sort of a reverse A/c unit...coils heat up rather than freeze over.
*Machines that convert whole house A/C compressor heat and hot air into pool heat. Unfortunatley takes more heat / energy to heat the pool than to cool the house, so higher heat levels difficult to come by tkaes longer to heat up.
* Solar. Unless you live in a sunny state...solar panels are hideous and heat level not great. still th etechnology is improving.
*Wind power...ummmmm sure.
*Am told that if you are used to instant heat from Gas, the technologies above will be harder adjustments, depends on expectation levels and perhaps natural or LP gas prices to come?
Lower-mid level (raypak,
*Raypak - mine lasted 5 years and cust service less than that. blahh...
*Minmax Stainless burners, ceramic tile, 2 year warranty, hot surface ignition 86% efficient. Thermostat drywell to prevent corrosion? about $2000 installed. Lots of deent features for little dollar by comparision.
Mid-to upper level (jandy, laars, starite, hayward)
*Starite boasts a composite shell, PMG combustion technology for 85% efficiency weighs less than 125 pounds, and a rotating top, LED indicator lights and 360 degree access to internals. Rust-Proof Duraglas Enclosure with 10 year warranty on but big deal. standard 2yr on most other parts. Exact Temperature Controls, Full diagnostics for troubleshooting problems
*Hayward My local pool store swears by them. Stay away from millivolt stick with digital operation. About $2700 installed. $2200 if you do it yourself. But removal of exisiting is an issue.
Upper level (considered to be the best by about 4 "experts" I spoke to.)
*Lochinvar Energyrite Heater. 89% efficiency. Gas. 400,000 BTU's Hot Surface Ignition, Air Proving Switch to check for blocked vents, two levels of self-diagnostics, one each for homeowner/service technician, Posi Vent Power Induced Blower for burner operation, remote control. The combustion chamber uses Ceramic Tiles. Combustion chamber is completely sealed to keep out wind, spiders rodents that like the wriing tht come with the digitals. Outer jacket is 16 gauge galvanized steel, most others seem to be 18, 20, 22. Corrosion-resistant bronze header by-pass. 3 yrs heat exchanger /2 yrs other parts. $1999-$3000 depending on where you get it, on-line, froma dealer, installed or not... 10-15 years
I still have not made a decision, but leaning Lochinvar...Got tired of millivolt Rapak triage...justt wanna enjoy...anyone have experience with Lochinvar?