A quick SWCG question

[bradburyesqu]

I have a new 22" Intex pool with the ozone Saltwater generator. I ran the pump and generator for the first time last night. I ran the pump for 6 hours and the generator for 4. I tested the water today and I'm still not registering any free choline on the test strip. The rest of my readings are below.

TA ~190
PH 7.5
Salt ~2950
Total Free Chlorine - 0

My question is is this normal? Does it take a few days to build up measurable chlorine in these pools? Or is something else effecting it? I could add some more salt. Also my TA is very high I'm going to be using the Acid/aeration method to fix this but that's going to take time. Perhaps I just need to run the generator longer tonight?

[mas985]

Did you just fill the pool? Did you add any liquid chlorine first? If the water is new fill water or you allowed the FC to drop before running the SWG, then there could be a lot of chlorine demand during start up. To check if the SWG is working, take a water same at the exit of the return while the SWG is running.

[PoolDoc]

It's generally not a good idea to run your SWCG until start-up is complete.

Doing so just puts additional wear on the cell and can greatly shorten cell life if you try to use the 'boost' mode some units have. Plus, as Mark pointed it, it makes it hard to figure out what's going on, since you don't really know what the output of the unit is.

Another potential issue: you report a high TA, which is not a problem for SWCG by itself, but if you ALSO have high CH, you could be fouling your cell rather rapidly. (Actually, I'm going to have to ask about that -- high TA + high CH will foul hot surfaces (in a heater) rapidly, but the mode of action in a SWCG is different.)

Anyhow, welcome to the forum.

[bradburyesqu]

I'm sorry I was not specific in my question. This is a brand new set up. The pool was filled Saturday and Sunday. As it was filling I added the salt and stabilizer. I did not add any liquid chlorine.

By "a lot of chlorine demand" You mean it may take a couple of days? Or should I run the generator on a longer cycle to get started and then back off? Or should I add liquid Chlorine?

Sorry to be dense, but I'm new to all of this.

[bradburyesqu]

My CH is on the high end of normal at ~500 PPM. I'm not sure if this could be causing the problem.

I didn't run the generator until last night, after the pool was full. I did start running the pump during set up. I had read somewhere that it helps to dissolve the salt.

I currently have my out jet pointing up and it's causing a lot of bubbling. I'm not sure how good the aeration is on it though. Alkalinity seems to be going down faster then PH though. I'll retest again in about an hour or so.

My unit does have a boost mode, but my understanding was that it boosted the amount of copper but not necessarily the amount of chlorine generated. I'm not sure where I read that or if it is true. But if that might help get things kicked off I can certainly use it.


And thank you for the welcome. I a lot of information here over the last few weeks while I was buying the pool. It seems like a really knowledgeable group of people.

[Watermom]

You might want to unhook the copper electrode on your unit. You do not want copper in a pool. It is copper, and not chlorine, that stains things and turns blonde hair green!

You don't want to use your boost cycle to up the chlorine. That will just wear out your cell faster. Just use bleach to get some chlorine in the pool. A pool with no chlorine will turn green pretty fast!

[Pappy]

Plain Walmart bleach is liquid chlorine. Pool Doc generally recommends you NOT use the SWCG until AFTER you get your pool "ready". What kind of filter do you have?
Read these, it will make your life easier and your pool happier.
http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/above-ground-pool-problems.html
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/17055-Super-simple-pool-chemistry-recipe-for-Intex-type-pools-start-up-amp-routine-care.

If you have the cartridge filter, order 2 or 3 good ones now.

While you are at walmart getting bleach, see if they have this
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668
Get one if they do.

And if you have a sand filter, you might be interested in this,
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-D.E-Filter-Aid-10-lb/20434370
the picture is WRONG, the description is CORRECT.
This is WHY you might be interested in D.E.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/3742-Adding-DE-to-sand-filter

Enjoy your new pool!

[mas985]

It is a good idea to use liquid chlorine first to bring the water up to the appropriate FC level for the given CYA level (see Ben's table). Municipal fill water can be high in Chloramines so FC is used up removing that. Once you get the FC level right, then check to see if the SWG is able to maintain that level over several days.

[bradburyesqu]

Thank you for the links that helps a lot. But I'm still unclear on one point. How do I know when my pool is ready to start using the SWCG? Is it after the 7 day start up that you linked. Ie when I get to the maintanance part I start using the generator instead?

For now I need to add Chlorine. But how much? The document you posted above says to get 2 gallons for every 3,000 gallons of water. Do I need to add all of that over the next 7 days?

[Pappy]

Since you added stabilizer, you may not need dichlor, which adds stabilizer. Add 2 cups of 8.25% generic bleach, no fancy smellygoodie, or other "goo", every evening until you get 5ppm reading with an OTO drops based test kit. "Guess strips" are not reliable. If you are able to the HTH 6 Way kit you can check your stabilizer level. Your final chlorine level depends on the stabilizer level. If the HTH 6 way isn't available, get the cheapest OTO kit you can.

http://poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html


I meant to say 2 cups bleach for every 3000 gallons.

[Pappy]

You are going to need the Taylor K-2006 test kit. As far as I know, it's available online only. There's a link to the Amazon store in Pool Doc's blue signature box.

[Watermom]

Also a link in my signature below. ;)

[bradburyesqu]

Well I'll have to order the taylor kit bot for now I got the HTH kit drop kit from walmart and that changed things a lot.

TC is between .5 and 1 PPM
PH is 7.5 (but I was aerating while I went to the store.)
TA is 300
Total Hardness is 340.

What a difference the right tools make.

The SWCG unit I bought produces Chlorine, Ozone and a small amount of copper. My understanding is that with the Ozone you can keep the Chlorine PPM lower. The manual suggests between 1 and 3 PPM. Should I still bring the pool up to 5 PPM first and then start using the unit? Or should I stop at 3?

[Pappy]

Your "cyanuric acid" level determines what chlorine level you need. Take a look at the links, then let us know what your CYA level is. Then we'll be able to give you guidance on your chlorine level.

Cyanuric acid (CYA) test
http://youtu.be/8whkC5WtS8g

http://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=44

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You do understand that copper in swimming pools turns blond hair green? Copper is an algaecide that you probably don't need. What is the make and model of your SWCG?

[bradburyesqu]

It is the Intex Ozone Saltwater Sanitizing System model zs8110. It can handle 1500 - 4000 GPH. I wasn't looking for the Ozone generator, but Walmart had it on sale and it was less expensive then the normal salt water unit.

My understanding was that copper only stained or turned hair green in high concentration. Am I mistaken?

As far as the Stabolizor, I was trying to get it to 20 PPM the HTH test can't test for less then 30 PPM. I can add more if it is necessary. But it I couldn't get a reading with the test.

So the Ozone has nothing to do with the amount of chlorine I need? I know that ozone can't replace chlorine but it was my understanding that it was a much better oxidizer and if you had both you could run your pool at significantly lower chlorine PPM and still be fine, because in standard set ups most of the chlorine went to oxidation. Am I completely confused here?

[Pappy]

What stabilizer are you using? The owners manual says a max of 50ppm CYA (Cyanuric Acid). Running at that level will make the SWCG last longer because your chlorine will last longer. Also, don't use the boost setting, shock with bleach instead. If your stabilizer is around 20, you want to add enough bleach so that chlorine level doesn't go below 2ppm by the time the sun is off the pool. If your CYA is at 50ppm, you need to try to keep chlorine levels between 3 and 6. Watermom suggested that you might disconnect the copper electrode to eliminate the copper production.

This page discusses why higher CYA levels require higher chlorine, and why this forum generally, but not always, recommends CYA levels between 30 and 50ppm.
http://poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html#a

I'm going to let someone else talk about ozone because I don't know enough about it to have an intelligent discussion.

[Watermom]

For most pools, we recommend around 40-50ppm for a CYA level but for pools with a SWCG, you need to follow the manufacturer's recommendation for the specific CYA level for that unit.

[PoolDoc]

So the Ozone has nothing to do with the amount of chlorine I need? I know that ozone can't replace chlorine but it was my understanding that it was a much better oxidizer and if you had both you could run your pool at significantly lower chlorine PPM and still be fine, because in standard set ups most of the chlorine went to oxidation. Am I completely confused here?

Yes, confused by deceptive marketing.

Ozone reacts destructively with chlorine -- it is worse than useless, applied to outdoor chlorinated pools without special contact chambers and a dechlorination / rechlorination process.

[bradburyesqu]

Well I guess I lied. I said this would be a quick question...

[PoolDoc]

:eek:

[bradburyesqu]

I just realized that could have been taken the wrong way. That wasn't an attack on anyone here. I appreciate all of the information. It was more a joke about my complete lack of knowledge on this subject.

I'm starting to feel like the more research I do the less I really know.

[Watermom]

We knew what you meant. No worries. :)

[PoolDoc]

forum privilege level upgraded . . .