My 6-year old is dying to swim and I've got green water even with high FC levels

[rox29160]

I am in need of help clearing up my green pool water. I opened the pool 10 days ago to dark green pool water. There was no floating scum or anything, but the water was dark, dark green.

This will be my fourth summer with the pool and I have never seen it like this upon taking the cover off. At the beginning of the season, it usually starts out a light green that I can get cleared up in 3-4 days. I have been vacuuming and brushing daily ever since opening. I started out trying to keep my FC around 15, but it was losing so much each day that I could not maintain it. On about day 3, I started boosting it up to about 35 ppm so when it dropped, it was still above 15 ppm. So for the last 7 days, I have not taken a chlorine reading less than 18ppm. Testing twice a day, most readings were in the range of 25 – 35 ppm. Overnight last night, the FC dropped from 32 ppm to 23 ppm. I am not using my SWCG right now, just bleach. I have gone through a bunch of reagent with these high fc levels, but want to make sure the FC does not drop so I have been testing FC twice a day. Pump is running 24/7.

The water is now a light green and has been this same color for 3-4 days with no changes. It is actually about the color of bleach. I have been spraying off my cartridge filter twice a day and swapping it out with ones that have been soaking in the bleach/water solution every couple of days. The filter has been really dirty every time I have cleaned it until yesterday. Starting yesterday, there was nothing settled in the bottom and my filter was clean. After the first time the filter came out clean, I put in a brand new filter in case the problem was with the filter. Even the new filter is coming out clean. I know these cartridge filters are junk and this process was going to take a long time, but thought since I was getting brown stuff out every time, that eventually I would get there. Since I can’t get the green out of my water and my filter is not brown anymore, I am scared I am not killing any more algae even with the high FC levels. What do I need to do? I can’t see how anything could live in my pool. I can smell the bleach from about 20 feet away. My FC levels are not dropping as much as they were in the beginning, but like I stated before they are still dropping substantially overnight.

I am on well water so I would really rather not empty the pool and re-fill if at all possible. I do think I have some iron in my water, but it has not been too much of a problem in the past. Usually with high levels of chlorine, it seems to settle out and I can vacuum it up.

Here are my readings as of 22 May 2014.
FC = 23ppm
=> (I added a gallon of bleach after testing so this should be up to around 31-32 now)
CC= 0.5 ppm
TA = 80 ppm
CH – did not test since I have a vinyl liner
PH = 7.4
CYA was not checked.

In the past years, I have had trouble ever getting this above 30 ppm so that it will even register on my Taylor 2006 kit. I think I have read that algae eats stabilizer. Since I opened the pool to green water, I am assuming the little bit of stabilizer I had last year is probably gone. I suspect it is most likely 0. I was waiting to work on raising my stabilizer levels after I cleared up the pool, since the stabilizer lessens the effect of chlorine on algae.

I have never used anything but bleach and my SWCG to raise the FC. Baking Soda, Mule Team Borax, Salt, cyanuric acid and “PH Minus” are the only other things I have ever put in the pool. The PH started out good when I opened the pool, but was over 8 a couple of days ago, so I added PH Minus to get it back in check.

Any help in clearing up my water would be greatly appreciated. Is there something else I am missing? Green means algae, but I can’t seem to kill it. The walls and floor are not slimy if that makes a difference.
.

[BigDave]

I can't suggest anything you're not already doing to clear the green but I do have a couple observations.

Save your FAS-DPD chlorine reagents by using an OTO testkit (yellow and red drops) for most of your frequent testing during this battle. The first couple times, do both FAS-DPD and OTO so you can get a read on the OTO color of high chlorine - it won't be on the comparator. Use the FAS-DPD once in a while to verify the OTO and, when you think the battle is won, to perform the overnight chlorine loss test.

As you note, filter quality could be a problem. See the Super Simple Recipie (http://pool9.net/ssr/) page for Amazon links to better filters. It's probably cheaper to buy better filters and remove some of the fine stuff than to buy chlorine to burn it all out.

High chlorine levels interefere with the pH test and bleach raises pH until it's done it's job. Don't adjust pH down (add acid) while the FC is above 10. If pH is below 7, however, you may consider moving it up with Borax.

The fact that the pool is consuming chlorine overnight and smells strongly of chlorine indicate that there's still a distance to go.

Stay the course, you will win this fight.
Good Luck, let us know how it's going.

[Watermom]

This may be helpful to you -- a chart to help you interpret high OTO levels by color:

http://pool9.net/oto/

[rox29160]

Thanks Dave. I have already ordered the Unicel filters from Amazon earlier this morning. I have an old OTO kit that I tried to use this morning as well as the FAS-DPD for your exact reasons. I diluted the pool water down with my well water (1 part pool to 9 parts well), but it is still reading off the color guage no matter what. The kit is 4 years old so I assume the drops may be bad. The FC was 23 ppm so if my dilution methodology is correct, I should have been reading somewhere between 2-3, which should have been in the middle of the kit range. I'll pick up another this weekend.

Thanks Watermom for the link. This may be easier than all the diluting anyway. It has always been hard for me to use those color charts. I never can decide what my "true" reading is.

So I guess I will just continue pouring the bleach to it. I thought I could eventually get it cleaned up, but when the filter started coming out clean after 12 hours of pumping and no more deposits on the bottom, I started worrying that I am not killing any more algae.

[BigDave]

You will get it cleaned up, it will take a while, but you will. The filter may look and be clean, the stuff may be passing right through. Good job on the Unicels - let us know how it works.

Don't worry about accuracy with the OTO(undiluted) at high chlorine levels, just use the color chart Watermom linked and make a mental note of the color. You don't need accurate to know you've got alot (OTO orange) of chlorine. When you need accuracy (to check yourself and to determine when you're done) use the K-2006.

Thanks, Watermom, for fixing my typo - I though I'd proofread the post - sigh.

[rox29160]

2-1/2 weeks in on 28 May 2014 and my pool is lighter yet still green. My Unicel filters are supposed to be in tomorrow.

Still not much in the way of filters being dirty or stuff settling out on the pool bottom. I am still vacuuming and brushing daily.

I decided to take my SWCG out of the loop since I wasn't using it anyway. I thought it might do it good to soak it in vinegar for a while and clean it up. I noticed that the tubes of the SWCG were nasty green and also that the intake and outlet hoses between the pool, pump, SWCG and back to the pool had a lot of dark green buildup in them. The tubes of the SWCG cleaned up pretty nicely with a heavy dosing of bleach and spraying them off.

However, the hoses that connect everything are not as easy to clean. All of the crevices seem to be caked with this stuff. They have gradually been getting darker and darker over the past couple of years, but have never seemed to pose a problem. They just look nasty!

At the end of the season last year, I soaked all of the hoses in bleach and water mixed in a large trash can before storing them for the winter. When opening the pool up and I was hooking everything back up, green flaky stuff kept coming out of the hoses. I cleaned it up the best I could by spraying with a hose pipe, but could only get about half of it out. I figured it would clean itself up after they started being used. After all, the pool has always been ready to swim in after about a week every year up until now. I am scared that I am re-introducing algae by using these nasty hoses.

Sorry I didn't not mention this earlier, but I completely forgot about it. Is there an easy way to clean these Intex hoses. I have no idea if they are different from regular hoses, but they are like a slinky and have a bunch of places for gunk to get trapped. I can't figure out a way to brush or clean them effectively. I plan on soaking them one at a time so I can continue pumping 24/7. I've got one hose that has been soaking in about 1/2 water and 1/2 bleach for about 6 hours and it doesn't seem to be doing anything so far. I've sloshed it around and sprayed with the hose pipe to no avail. Could this green film be algae since the hoses were stored over the winter and were completely dry? Can algae live with no moisture? Or is this green gunk, just green gunk?

Like before I have been keeping my chlorine levels really high. CYA is estimated at 0. My dad kept watch on the pool over the weekend as we were out of town. He cleaned the filter and brushed twice a day. He did not vacuum. He added 2 gallons of bleach every night (about 20 ppm in my pool). He didn't do any testing. When I got home, my FC was at 12 ppm. It had been about 36 hours since he added bleach when we got home so I am assuming this is the lowest it got. Here are my latest results 2 days after boosting the chlorine levels back up.
FC = 34 ppm
CC= 0.5 ppm
TA = 80 ppm
PH = 7.2

[Watermom]

I just looked back and saw that you filled from a well. Wondering if part of this could be a metals issue, too. I'm gonna ask Ben to jump in on this thread to see if he has any ideas. Sit tight.

[rox29160]

I think I do have some iron in my well water, but it has never caused much of a problem. I left the pool full over the winter so this is the same water that was in there for the past four years, with the exception of water that was added with the Intex venturi vacuum.

The green gunk in my hoses is a very thin layer and is dark green when wet. It isn't slimy. You almost have to scrape it off. When it is dry, it is a light green with a chaulky consistency. Before installing the hoses, I bent them around and shook them to break some of it loose. It looks like large green dandruff flakes.

BTW, Thanks Watermom for the high chlorine OTO color chart. Once I figured out what colors to expect by testing both ways a few times, it has saved me lots of reagent.

[BigDave]

Not slimy, light green when dry, chalky.
Is it the color of the Statue of Liberty?
Have you used any pool chemicals containing copper - algecide, chlorine booster, etc?
Does the Intex Krystal Clear have a copper ionizer unit?

I think Watermom may be onto something regarding metals. I'm thinking that maybe dead algae or some other precipitate is stained with copper giving you a light green cloud. I recall PoolDoc has also metioned Iron staining green in some circumstances.

[Pappy]

I've looked at Intex SWCG owners manuals. I "Think" all Intex SWCGs do have the copper ionizer. I KNOW most do.

[rox29160]

29 May 2014

The dry form of the green stuff is very close to the color of the statue of liberty. I don't remember ever adding anything other than Bleach, Salt, Borax, Baking soda, and PH Minus.

My SWCG does have the 2 little copper bars sticking down into the flow, which I am assuming is the ionizer unit you are talking about. It also has about 4 or 5 thin silver plates that I think is what produces the chlorine. I have been reading about disconnecting the cord that goes to the copper bars to prevent it from releasing copper into the pool, but have not done that yet.

With exception of a couple of days when I first started this process, I have not been using the SWCG this year.

Like I said, the hoses have been gradually getting darker and darker the last couple of years though so this may be an old issue just now rearing its ugly green head. I have tried cleaning them on several occasions over this time, but have never found a way to clean them effectively. I have never had problems getting clear water until now so the "dirty" hoses have just been eye sores up to this point. As I stated previously, I took the SWCG out of the loop completely last night. I pulled the ladder out of storage last night as well. It also had a thin film of this same chaulky green stuff all over it. When you brush it, the green stuff comes off like powdery green sawdust.

If this is copper in the water, would my FC levels be dropping so much overnight or does this still indicate algae?

[BigDave]

Is the hose downstream from the ionizer darker than the one upstream? Do they get swapped around?

I'm guessing that the overnight chlorine demand may be from the dead algae stained green from copper.

Did the ladder have the green chalky on it from last year?

[rox29160]

I don't think they get darker downstream of the ionizer. The hose that I notice the most is actually the one from the bottom of the skimmer basket to the pool outlet since it is visible from inside the pool. It is also a "clear" pipe that you can see through. The others are pretty and white on the outside, but when you look into the end of one, it is pretty disturbing. I had at least one end of all 3 exterior hoses disconnected last night while taking the SWCG offline and I think they all looked equally bad inside. The hoses on the outside of the pool usually don't get swapped around during the season. They may get put in a different location when hooking everything up at the beginning of the season though.

Dead algae still uses chlorine? I must have misunderstood. I thought you only had overnight chlorine demand with live algae and once it was dead, it stopped eating up the FC b/c you aren't fighting it anymore. Then you just had to wait on the filter to get all the dead algae out.

Yes the ladder's green chalky stuff was leftover from last year. It has been in my shop all winter to keep it out of the weather so it hasn't even been in the pool this year.

Again, I appreciate all your help.

[BigDave]

Once the algae is dead, it can usually be filtered. I think in this case, the dead algae just passes through the filter. Chlorine will oxidise any organic material in the pool and will be consumed in the process. The dead algae is plenty of organic material. Hopefully the new filter carts will help clear the dead algae.

Is the pool water the same color green as the hose deposits?

What's the CH level?

[rox29160]

29 May 2014

The pool water is a light green and the dried green film on everything when I took it out of storage was about the same color, just light green I guess. The green gunk inside the wet hoses is a lot darker.

I just looked at the hose that has been soaking in the bleach solution this afternoon and there is not much change at all. I stuck my finger in there to what I could reach and it does not wipe off. I can scratch it off with a fingernail. It is not slimy at all. It actually feels a little rough.

I never have been able to get the CH test to work right. The test starts off a light pink (not red) and turns a light violet (not blue). I just tested the CH at 50 ppm, using these colors. I have always had trouble with the CH test even when the kit was brand new. Reading over one of my previous posts about this, it used to start out blue though.

These are the original reagents since I never test for it. I was told by somebody that it doesn't really matter for vinyl pools. I just installed my new UNICEL cartridges. My daughter and I sure hope they work. I think she has given up on the pool.

Not seeing any difference in the pool in close to 2 weeks and after buying about 40 gallons of bleach, I am pretty close to that point myself.

[PoolDoc]

I'm so sorry you've had those problems. For future reference, with a 5,000 gallon pool, it's often better to dump and refill, once the pool gets away from you.

1. Maybe I'm missing it, but I didn't see your CYA results. Do you know what your CURRENT stabilizer level is?

2. If you have an Intex SWCG unit . . . DISCONNECT the wires to the copper part.

3. Don't worry about pH, TA, or CH right now. Just CYA.

4. Another question: do your pool walls feel slimy? Vinyl pools almost ALWAYS feel slimy when algae starts growing, and during an algae outbreak.

[rox29160]

I haven't added stabilizer at all this year. In the past 3 seasons, I never got the CYA to register on the test so it has to be less than 30 ppm. I also seem to remember reading that algae "eats" stabilizer. Based on these 2 things, I have been assuming the CYA is close to zero. I was trying to get the algae under control before adding any stabilizer. Stabilizer allows the chlorine to last longer, but doesn't it slow down the chlorine's effectiveness on algae? I will wait to hear back from you before adding the stabilizer so as not to slow down this process even further.

I do have the SWCG. I will disconnect the copper ionizer before hooking it back up. It is not hooked up at all right now. I am running the pump 24/7.

I can not find anywhere in my pool that is slimy. I know this is one of the telltale signs of algae so I go around rubbing my hands over everything. Everything squeaks when you rub your fingers over it, if that makes sense.

I decided to test my CYA this morning just to make sure. It is definitely below 30. I can clearly see the dot on the bottom when the tube is full. The solution is not even cloudy at all.

[PoolDoc]

+ Read the SS Recipe -- it doesn't apply directly, but it has info you can use: http://pool9.net/ssr/

+ Turn off the SWCG, for now. Completely off.

+ Use dichlor to chlorinate: http://pool9.net/dichlor24/ If you can't find the Sams dichlor in that link, I believe there are Amazon links to dichlor in the SS Recipe. Or you can shop Lowes, Home Depot or Ace. All of them *sometimes* carry undiluted dichlor. Look for dichlor products that have 56% available chlorine. Do NOT get anything that shows "trichlo-.....", "copper", or a non-chlorine oxidizer on the label.

+ For every 10 ppm of chlorine you add with dichlor you will also add 9 ppm CYA. Right now, that's a good thing for you.

[BigDave]

Thanks PoolDoc I'd missed that there was no CYA.
Do you have an guess regarding the flaky green material in the pipes and other surfaces?

@rox29160: did you get the new carts yet?

[PoolDoc]

Do you have an guess regarding the flaky green material in the pipes and other surfaces?

I'm afraid it's copper -- the color (= Statue of Liberty) she described is one of the copper salts.

[rox29160]

OK, I've got several stupid questions....Please excuse my ignorance. I plan to try and find some dichlor locally tonight or tomorrow morning.

1. Pooldoc stated not to use Trichlo. I know it is not the same as dichlor, hence the name, but I thought both were acceptable means to add FC and CYA, as long as you need CYA. I actually bought a floater and some tabs with 99.0%-Trichloro-s-triazinetrione & 1%other ingredients with 90% available chlorine last weekend. I have not used any of it yet thank goodness and can hopefully return it. I was planning to use it to boost my CYA after getting the green knocked out of my water. My question is...What is the difference in dichlor and trichlor?

2. If it is copper, is there something that will make it drop out so I can vacuum it or dissolve back into the water so it is not visible?

3. Why would copper just show up this year since it is the original pool water from 3 years ago? I have never drained the pool. I have added water over time though. Would algae make it all of a sudden appear? Or the SWCG? I have used the SWCG in all of the 3 previous seasons and had clear water last fall when closing the pool.

4. I have powdered cyanuric acid stabilizer on hand too. Can I use it to raise the CYA until I get the dichlor or will it just get filtered out?

[BigDave]

A) The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked.

1) I think PoolDoc's reason is that dichlor dissolves quickly and is the quickest way to get CYA in the water, Trichlor will also add CYA but at a slower rate.
2) I'm hopeful that a lot of it has stuck to the cloud in your water and the new cartridges may help remove it. There are other methods to remove metals, none of them are fast. Refill is quickest - are you sure you can't?
3) It didn't just show up this year. Your ladder was coated in it from last year. The copper dookickey in the Krystal Clear was actively adding it to your pool.
4) You can put it in a sock and hang the sock in the pool, prefereably in from of a return, Squeeze the sock every now and again to help it dissolve.

-5- If anything I've written conflicts with or is contradicted by PoolDoc, - What he says goes.

[rox29160]

30 May 2014

Again, I appreciate all of the help I am receiving.

1. I guess I need to wait on input from Pool Doc on whether to use or not use the Trichlor that I already have since he said specifically not to use it. I have never seen anything related to pools in any lowes or home depot around here, but I am going to check tomorrow. Pooldoc didn't mention buying it at a poolstore so I am assuming they don't usually carry it. I have 2 that are within about 30 minutes that I may call. I just hate to wait for shipping from Amazon if the stabilizer will help. It sounds as if I can add the cyanuric acid and at least be trying to raise it some while waiting.

2. The cartridge caught a good bit last night, but next to nothing during the day today. I may have mentioned we had a pretty bad storm last night so it could have been partly from stuff being clown into the pool. Fingers are still crossed though. I don't guess a refill is totally out, but my well is not a really high yielding well so I would rather not. I was scared I was going to run it dry last time I filled it.

3. I understand that it has always been in there. I meant more along the lines of why did it just all of a sudden turn my water green.

4. I will get this process started tonight. The sock method is how I have always tried raising the CYA in previous years.

5. Understood! I know he definitely knows his stuff.

[BigDave]

Trichlor will work to raise CYA and chlorine. It will also lower pH.

Like PoolDoc said, do be careful buying dichlor at Lowes or Home Depot. Many(most) retailers are selling adulterated dichlor many formulations containing copper. Sam's Club Pool Brand dichlor is OK (last checked). PoolDoc's Amazon links are also the good stuff. For about twice the price per pound, the Leslie's near me sells 99% dichlor (good stuff). I can't say if it's the same near you. Many pool stores sell the diluted / corrupted material.

If you do venture into a pool store, do not let them sell you anything other than 99% dichlor (56% available chlorine or better). They will try.

How much trichlor do you have on hand? How much stabilizer?

[rox29160]

31 May 2014

I have 6 1/2 pounds of stabilizer, powdered or granular. I have 4 pounds of 1" tabs of the trichlor. I added about 1/2 pound of stabilizer using the sock method last night and put 8 tabs in to float around. This morning the tabs are still in there and don't appear to have dissolved at all. The stabilizer is pretty well dissolved. FC using the OTO test is high (dark red).

On another note, I started the bucket test for metals last night. 15 hours into it and no change of color of either the fill water or the pool water and nothing in the bottom of either bucket. The fill water is clear. The pool water never appeared as green in the white bucket, but definitely has a light brownish green tint that is still visible.

The Unicel filter did not pick up any thing to speak of again overnight. (only a few bugs and very little brown stuff at all)

[BigDave]

Is the water cloudy and green or clear and green? What color green is the water?

You have plenty of CYA on hand (in stabilizer and trichlor) to reach any reasonable goal. Leave the tabs in the floater, make sure it doesn't park itself in one place against the wall - tie it out if you must. Add another pound and a half of stabilizer via the sock method. Wait a couple days after the sock is empty to test. At that point, CYA should be somewhere around 50.

By now you have killed everything chlorine is going to kill. I think it's time to let it come down. Wait for the FC to get to 5 before adding more bleach. Does your OTO comparator read to 5? Keep an eye on pH, add a little Borax if it gets below 7.0. With the chlorine below 10, perform another overnight chlorine demand test: use FAS-DPD to test FC and CC in the evening near sundown and again the next morning near sunup. Test for CH when the chlorine is below 10 as well.

Keep the filter running and brush daily.

[rox29160]

31 May 2014

The pool is clear but light green. It is almost the color of bleach, but less yellowish and more green. I don't know of anything close to this color. It is like the shade of statue of liberty but not chaulky looking like that. It is a little brighter green than that.

The bucket test pool water looked a little less green ( maybe a little more brown) and a little more hazy or cloudy, both initially and after adding the bleach and borax. I am assuming if I can't clear it up in the bucket then draining and a refill is the only option.

That bothers me more than anything b/c we are thinking of installing an IG and I won't be able to drain an IG if it were to happen then. This will be a huge confidence reducer if I have to drain.

I never knew how hard it is to describe shades of green.

[BigDave]

Clear green, I didn't understand that, I thought it was cloudy and green - sorry. I'd bet it's copper and that the copper is from the Krystal Clear. Most Intex type pools get drained at least annually, your pool has had the opportunity to accumulate copper. I'd also guess that with a CYA of less than 30, the SWCG (and copper ionizer) was working double shifts to keep the pool clear.

Refill is not the only option, I'd defer regarding metals removal but there are ways to manage metal in the water. CuLater packets also seem to help actually remove the metal from the water, you don't have a skimmer that would work but you can hang 'em in the pool like your CYA sock. Please read the stickies in the metals forum (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/forumdisplay.php/139-Dealing-with-Stains-amp-Metals-.-.-.-and-Minerals-amp-Ions) to get familiar with the process.

If you have no blonde (or color treated) haired swimmers and you can live with the risk of greenish fingernails (or green hair for that matter) you can swim - as long as there's adequate chlorine and the water's clear.

This shouldn't change your plans regarding a big pool. You won't be able to fill it from your well - you'll need water trucked in. I'm pretty sure that at this point no one will be able to sell you an ionizer or mineral system of any kind and that you'll never ever ever use a copper based algaecide.


I never knew how hard it is to describe shades of green. I felt pretty clever with "Statue of Liberty green" :)

[PoolDoc]

OK, I think I have an idea what's going on. I deleted a bunch of our chit-chat posts, and reformatted most of yours for readability. What I think is happen is that you've got a combination of problems, some of which are -- as you wondered earlier -- "just now catching up with you".

But I'm not sure! What's very clear is that you have a very confusing situation. :p Some of our posts have been less then helpful, because none of us were 'twigging' to all the facts you'd provided. I don't feel as bad as I might have, because some of those facts dribbled out over 3 or 4 posts and several days. Again, that's not your fault, but it has made it hard for us to see what's going on. Let me give you a list -- a LONG list -- of things to do:

1. Please verify that I have (finally) got the facts right about your pool:
+ You have a 4 year old Intex 16' round pool that you've used successfully for the previous 3 years.
+ You have used an Intex SWCG that has visible copper bars.
+ You have the Taylor K2006 kit, and have tried the calcium test, but have always gotten strange results.
+ Your pool was green and slimy on opening, but is now greenish (greenish-blue?) and somewhat clear.
+ Your pool's surfaces are not now slimy or slippery, and have not been for several days (a week?)
2. Please collect some of your green goo / powder, and put a visible amount in 4 clear glass containers. (Wine glasses would be great, and this shouldn't hurt them.) Place the glasses on a clear background outdoors, like a plastic picnic table or light picnic cloth. Wear plastic gloves and glasses. Then:
+ Add 2 tablespoons of distilled water from Walmart to each glass.
+ Add a teaspoon of bleach to one, a teaspoon of acid to another, and 2 - 3 Vitamin C tabs to a third glass. Leave the fourth with goo + distilled only. Stir them up using a plastic spoon. Mark or label the glasses so you know -- for a certainty -- which is which. (You can use magic marker, and then remove it with rubbing alcohol)
+ Wait 1 hour, then observe each glass, and note the conditions of each.
+ Take high res photographs of the glasses, just after adding and stirring, and an hour later. Send the photos to poolforum@gmail.com, and include your user ID "rox29160" and the thread # "23663"
3. Watch the Taylor videos:
http://pool9.net/tk-guide/
http://pool9.net/tk-interfere/ . Pay especial attention to the calcium hardness test INTERFERENCES video.

4. DO a complete set of test on your pool water AND the water you fill the pool with. DO the calcium test with, and without, the modification. Report the results here.

5. Take pictures of the pool, the pipes, and the SWCG. Send the photos to poolforum@gmail.com, and include your user ID "rox29160" and the thread # "23663" . Don't worry about taking too many pictures -- I can discard the ones that don't help, but I can't look at the ones you don't send. ;)

6. Let your chlorine drop to normal (5 ppm or so) levels.


Thanks!

[rox29160]

#1 All items in #1 are correct with the possible exception of slimy upon opening, but that is probably correct also. I don't remember checking at this point. It was a dark green which most likely means algae was present so that statement is probably true as well. Just trying to make sure you know I did not check for slimyness at this point.

#2 The green stuff may be hard to get since I have tried to clean everything off already. I will try to get a sample from somewhere though. I am sure I can find some somewhere since it was on everything. The hoses would have been perfect to collect these samples before they were wet. How much green stuff do I need in each glass? What kind of acid, cyanuric? What kind of vitamin C tabs, like vitamin c supplements that humans take?

#3 done! I will try the revised CH test tomorrow. I wish I had known these were around when I first started using the k2006.

#4 I will try both the revised and normal CH tests tomorrow.

#5 Tomorrow

#6 No more bleach until it is down!

Bucket test for metals after 30 hours showed no change in pool water or fill water. Nothing has settled to the bottom either.

Thank you all for your help. This will be a huge confidence booster if I can finally get this fixed, although I think my daughter gave up a long time ago.

I will try to get to Wal-mart tomorrow after church to pick up distilled water and vitamin c.

[PoolDoc]

#2 You only need enough 'stuff' to be clearly visible. Use whatever pool acid you have -- either dry sodium bisulfate (pH Down) or muriatic acid. If you haven't used muriatic before, get some pH Down and use it. And yes, plain vitamin C tablets like people take.

#7 Your bucket test indicates that your fill water has little or no metal in it. That points the finger back at the copper in the Intex SWCG.

[rox29160]

I apologize for the delay. I have been having trouble getting enough green goo for the tests. I had already brushed and tried to clean as much of it off as I could get. I have actually switched out hoses on the pool and allowed another one to dry completely. I was able to get a small amount out if it. I don't know if it will be enough to make the tests in the wine glasses work properly though. I wasn't able to conduct the tests in the daylight today so I will try to do them tomorrow afternoon.
I did a complete test this afternoon before my meeting.
FC =13.5
CC = 0
TA = 80
CYA = 40
PH = 7.0 (Do I need to raise with Borax?)

I have not added anymore bleach since Saturday, but the Trichlor is still floating around in the floater. The pool water looks less green today, but seems to be starting to look cloudy. My filter cartridge was dark brown this afternoon and after my meeting was dirty again 4 hours later. I guess since I am filtering stuff out of the pool so that is good. I can't understand why with high FC (30-40 ppm), I got nothing in my filter, but now once it is coming down, I start catching stuff. I am concerned over this low PH. Please advise.

I was fairly confident that I was experiencing problems related to copper so I have an order placed with Amazon for the vitamin C, sequestrant, and culator recommended in the sticky.

[PoolDoc]

7.0 and going down is a good reason for borax -- start a double dose. And you can continue to let your chlorine drop to 3 - 5 ppm.

If it's copper, high chlorine will not 'get rid' of it.

[BigDave]

... My filter cartridge was dark brown this afternoon and after my meeting was dirty again 4 hours later. ... I can't understand why with high FC (30-40 ppm), I got nothing in my filter, but now once it is coming down, I start catching stuff. Was it windy? Perhaps some other reason more dirt went in the pool?

[rox29160]

I added the borax before work this morning and checked the FC. It was still holding at 13.5, but again my trichlor is still floating around in there which is why I am assuming my PH has dropped and keeping my FC steady. I will see if the sunlight ate and FC up today when I get home.

Not windy at all. I have not seen my cartridge this brown and dirty since the first couple of days of shocking. After those first couple of days, my filters have not seemed to catch anything except for one time (which was right after a storm event with high winds)

Still going to try PoolDoc's wine glass trick this evening.

[rox29160]

I just emailed all the pics PoolDoc requested on the wine glass testing and also pics of the green gunk still in my hoses and pool water. Again, it was very difficult to get a large enough sample of the green goo, as pooldoc calls it. I had already brushed and sprayed off at least 90% of it. Originally it was a light green flaky substance about like extremely large flakes of dandruff, but green. The sample I was able to obtain had a more grainy consistency like sawdust.
I tested again this afternoon while waiting on the wine glass testing. Results are as follows:
FC = 9.5 ppm
CC = 0
PH = 7.2 (I added a little more Borax to hopefully boost a little more)
TA = 80 ppm
CH = 30 ppm
CYA = approximately 35 ppm

CH tests started working correctly on 6/1/14. The modified CH tests started out Blue instead of Red. Every time I have ever tried to complete this test before 6/1, the samples started out blue so I have never been able to take a good test on it.

What now? As you will see from the pics, the pool is actually getting "less green" by letting the chlorine drop for some reason. My filter cartridge has been catching large of amounts the last couple of days once the FC and PH dropped. Any guesses why?

[PoolDoc]

I'll respond more fully, later.

But I suspect that you've got calcium scale, and that the low pH + low calcium in your water is loosening it, and allowing you to filter it out.

I don't think lowering the chlorine is related; merely coincidental.

So . . . don't raise the pH..

I'm going to have to re-read all your posts. Meanwhile, can you test your fill water? And can you tell me whether it would be hard or expensive to drain and refill?

[rox29160]

Whether it is calcium scale or something else, this is the best my pool has looked all year. It is clearing up nicely. It is not as clear as in years past yet, but at least we are headed in the right direction and seeing progress again. I wouldn't be afraid to let my daughter swim in it at this point. I think she might finally be able to swim this weekend. The filter cartridge continues to catch stuff, although it is gradually reducing in the amounts.

My FC is still above 10 but is reducing by about 3 ppm per day. My PH is still 7.2 last night. I still have the Trichlor tablets floating in there so this is still adding some chlorine while trying to continue raising my CYA. Last check CYA was at 35 ppm. Like I mentioned before, I was pretty sure that this was going to be copper so I have the chemicals ordered from Amazon to remove them. I do have some level of metals because I have a brown ring around my normal water level that will not brush off, but Vitamin C tablets make it disappear almost instantly. I plan on trying the acid and Culater process since I have already bought it just to see if it helps. Any possible downside to this way of thinking?

In anticipation of my CYA finally reaching my goal of 50 ppm, thence needing to remove the trichlor floater, I reconnected my Intex Krystal Clear SWCG last night after cleaning. I had the copper ionizer disconnected. I turned it on just to make sure it would work, but after the green light came on for about a minute, the service light comes on and the unit shuts itself off. I knew I wouldn't be able to run it anymore with the ionizer hooked up, but wanted to see if this is what was causing my problem. I reconnected the copper ionizer and tried it again. It still would not work with the ionizer connected. It gives no error codes. The light just comes on and then the unit cuts off. Does anyone have any ideas what this could mean? While cleaning, I filled the entire tube with vinegar and let it sit to clean out the green film that was on the inside of the tubes. I have cleaned it like this before and had no problems. It was working before cleaning and now it is not and gives a service light. Any ideas what the problem could be?

I really like the idea of using a SWCG since it has been so convenient and easy to maintain chlorine levels in the past. If I can't get this Intex SWCG back up and running, does anybody have any economical recommendations on a different system to replace it with that does not have a copper ionizer. I know I can use bleach and the BBB instead, but that is hard to do because we take a lot of trips in which we are out of town for 2-3 days at a time. Being able to use a timer and a SWCG is extremely convenient.

[BigDave]

@rox29160: Perhaps a HiC2 pool would be good for you. This is a method PoolDoc's been talking about that intentionally operates with high CYA and correspondingly high chlorine. The idea being that with high enough CYA, you could go a few days between adding chlorine.
@PoolDoc: early in this thread, OP states water source is a poor producing well that apparently has iron.

[PoolDoc]

, I reconnected my Intex Krystal Clear SWCG last night after cleaning. I had the copper ionizer disconnected. I turned it on just to make sure it would work, but after the green light came on for about a minute, the service light comes on and the unit shuts itself off. I knew I wouldn't be able to run it anymore with the ionizer hooked up, but wanted to see if this is what was causing my problem. I reconnected the copper ionizer and tried it again. It still would not work with the ionizer connected. It gives no error codes. The light just comes on and then the unit cuts off. Does anyone have any ideas what this could mean?

Have you checked the manuals and videos, here?
http://www.intexcorp.com/index.php/home/above-ground-pools/agp-accessories/saltwater-system.html?manual=1

If none of those help, you can call them http://pool9.net/intex-c/

[rox29160]

I have looked through the manual and watched the videos on the SWCG, but can't find a solution. Searching online, it seems this is often a result of the AC to DC Converter failing. I think this is probably going to be my last season with this pool anyway, so it will be BBB only for the next several months.
I used the acid treatment to remove metals from my pool per the sticky. It is crystal clear once again! The Culater packet doesn't seem to be turning colors so I am not sure if it is catching anything or not. The water cleared up almost immediately after adding the Sequestrant. The filter cartridge continues to filter nicely and it is a milky greyish-brown when I rinse it out now. I am in the process of rebalancing. Hopefully, everything will go smooth from here on out. Thanks for all your help.

[BigDave]

As I recall the CuLater is pretty slow acting.