di chlor question

[dansdad]

If I needed a kick of cya in my pool, would adding a bag of granular di-chlor do it? I know sounds like a pain but I just found a little algae starting to bloom in one corner and want it to stop. BTW I was thinking of a floater but I have a fiberglass pool and heard NO on fiberglass Thank You Dave G.

[Watermom]

Dichlor will add CYA and chlorine. For every 10ppm of chlorine, 9ppm of CYA will also be added.

[dansdad]

Thanks Watermom, BTW still wating for the pic of your other pup :)

[Watermom]

Thanks Watermom, BTW still wating for the pic of your other pup :)

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. One of these days, I'll do it. :)

[dansdad]

hey watermom this stuff I have is 99% sodium dichloro s trianz something. Will it blow up or is it safe to use/ I normally use chlorine just wanted to check it out Thanks Dave G

[Watermom]

What brand is it/where did you get it?

[dansdad]

It's called clear view shimmer-n shock made in USA by Oreq. I got it at my pool store 3 rd generation owned not Leslie's or any general store

[Watermom]

I know nothing about that type. I'm a skeptic so let's run it past Ben and see what he thinks.

[dansdad]

Thanks watermom

[Watermom]

You're welcome. :) I've asked Ben to offer an opinion. He should be along shortly.

[dansdad]

thank you I shall await. I know we have a Pool School but I don't believe it has all the answers then again maybe it does I just have to ask properly like I'm doing now Thanks Watermom....Btw where does "Watermom" come from? My handle dansdad came from my beloved English Springer Spaniel, Danny. He crossed Rainbow Bridge about 4 years ago.

[Watermom]

Watermom is just something I made up years ago. No meaning other than I had a pool and loved to be in it and was a Mom with a bunch of little boys at my house! ;)

[dansdad]

Great answer !

[PoolDoc]

99% dichlor is normal, undiluted dichlor. If it is sodium dichloroisocyanurate, the available chlorine will be around 61%. If it is sodium dichloroisocyanurate dihydrate, the available chlorine will be around 56%.

[dansdad]

Ok so I guess it would not hurt to use it wouldn't cause a gaseous affect. I think I may use it once and see how it works. I'll probably just stick to chlorine. So confusing all the di-chlor, tri- chlor and all the rest. Chlorine is the only thing that isn't too confusing. I was going to get a floater so when I go away for a week or two the floater could watch the pool until I get back. Honestly don't know a thing about floaters and since I have a fiberglass pool I already read to keep it tied off so it doesn't touch the side. I was thinking or two lines one line going from my ladder and the other to the skimmer lid on the deck that way it would be in the middle and couldn't move too far. Thank you for answering and thanks to watermom for setting up this conversation again thanks to you both

[dansdad]

just looked at a site called Cameo Chemicals and they say this stuff is only 39% free chlorine

[PoolDoc]

Can you post (or email me) complete hi-res pictures of the label?

I don't understand how 99% dichlor can be 39% chlorine, and those labels are federally regulated, so their ability to play marketing games is somewhat restricted.

[dansdad]

went to the site of Cameo Chemicals. I first googled the dichloro-- and it game me the site. This site has the msds as well as other names listed. When I went to the site I didnt immediately get it but the google did and sent me to the same site..so figure. When you get there you scroll down to the chemical in question. Also theit email is orr.cameo@noaa.gov. Hope that's what you want

[PoolDoc]

1. poolforum@gmail.com

2. "Cameo Chemicals" is really a NOAA spill database, here: http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/

3. The reference to 39% dichlor is not a reference to a product, but to a potential condition. Supposedly, dichlor at available chlorine concentrations BELOW 39% behaves differently than dichlor at concentration above 39%.

Well, maybe. But it's NOT talking about any specific product.

4. The database has some significant errors and omissions. It does correctly recognize, for example, that cal hypo and cyanuric acid react badly together. But it lists hydrogen bromide and sulfur dioxide as potential by-products. Considering that there is no sulfur or bromine in either cyanuric acid or dichlor, that's a rather remarkable outcome.

It also claims that dichlor and cyanuric acid react badly together with each other. I'm skeptical. We'll see. But I'm pretty sure that if they DO react, you won't have any hydrogen bromide (again) as a byproduct!

[BigDave]

I don't think the CAMEO site is going to help you much. The entry in CAMEO you are seeing is for SODIUM DICHLORO-S-TRIAZINETRIONE and SODIUM DICHLORO-S-TRIAZINETRIONE DIHYDRATE with greater than 39% available chlorine.

I found the MSDS for the product you mentioned "ClearView shimmer n shock" on the manufacturer's website and it indicates (may be out of date) that it is undiluted dichlor. It is fine to use in your pool to chlorinate and add CYA.

I'm guilty again of "simul-post"

[dansdad]

ok I'll use it but I will probably just stick to chlorine as all these different chemicals leave me a bit perplexed as after you looking at the ingredients is something I would know little in finding out the percentage. Thank you everyone it's very much appreciated Dave G.

[chem geek]

This actually isn't complicated. This MSDS (http://oreqcorp.com/msds/english/PDF_docs/shimmer_n_shock.pdf) indicates that the Oreq ClearView® shimmer n shock product is 100% Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione which is what we normally call Dichlor. The following are the types of chlorine and their side effects in terms of what else they add to the water (for salt, this includes the resulting salt when the chlorine is used/consumed).

Type of Chlorine . FC CYA CH Salt . Typical Dosage per 10,000 gallons per FC
Trichlor ................ 10 . 6 ... 0 ... 8 .. 14.6 oz. (109 grams)

Dichlor ................. 10 . 9 ... 0 ... 8 .. 24.1 oz. (181 grams)
.................................................. ... for Dichlor Dihydrate

Calcium ............... 10 . 0 .. 7-8 10-12 20.7 oz. (155 grams)
Hypochlorite ................................... for Cal-Hypo 65%

Sodium ................ 10 . 0 ... 0 .. 17 . 102 fluid oz. (800 ml)
Hypochlorite ................................... for 12.5% (trade) chlorinating liquid

Lithium ................ 10 . 0 ... 0 .. 17 . 38.3 oz. (286 grams)
Hypochlorite

Chlorine Gas ......... 10 . 0 ... 0 ... 8 .. 13.4 oz. (100 grams)

Saltwater Chlorine . 10 . 0 ... 0 ... 0 .. N/A
Generator

Trichlor and Dichlor are known as "stabilized chlorine" because they have Cyanuric Acid (CYA) in them. Trichlor is usually in a slowly dissolving puck but is also sold as granular and it is quite acidic (low pH). Dichlor is granular. Cal-Hypo is usually in powdered form and increases Calcium Hardness (CH). Sodium hypochlorite is what is in chlorinating liquid and in bleach and is what we normally recommend as the common source of chlorine if you aren't intending to raise CYA or CH. Lithium hypochlorite is powdered but is very expensive. Chlorine gas is not used in residential pools except by a few pool services. A saltwater chlorine generator is fairly common in residential pools and generates chlorine from the salt in the pool.

[dansdad]

WOW I keeping this info! thanks so much for taking the time to research Dave G. I still think you folks are geniuses. Thank You

[dansdad]

I'm going to study this as I need to really master my chemistry as ....ok this is low.....so why...... look at the chemistry not just blindly dump chemicals in and hope for the best. I can stay on top of this so do it. Thank you so much

[chem geek]

I'm updating the table to improve formatting and to add columns on the effects on pH and TA after accounting for chlorine usage/consumption:

Type of Chlorine . FC CYA CH . pH . TA . Salt .. Typical Dosage per 10,000 gallons per FC
Trichlor ................ 10 . 6 ... 0 ... -- .. -7 ..... 8 .... 14.6 oz. (109 grams)

Dichlor ................. 10 . 9 ... 0 ... - . -3.5 .... 8 .... 24.1 oz. (181 grams)
.................................................. ..................... for Dichlor Dihydrate

Calcium ............... 10 . 0 .. 7-8 .. 0 ... 0 . 10-12 . 20.7 oz. (155 grams)
Hypochlorite .................................................. .. for Cal-Hypo 65%

Sodium ................ 10 . 0 ... 0 ... 0 ... 0 .... 17 ... 102 fluid oz. (800 ml)
Hypochlorite .................................................. .. for 12.5% (trade) chlorinating liquid

Lithium ................ 10 . 0 ... 0 ... 0 ... 0 .... 17 ... 38.3 oz. (286 grams)
Hypochlorite

Chlorine Gas ......... 10 . 0 ... 0 .. --- . -14 ... 8 .... 13.4 oz. (100 grams)

Saltwater Chlorine . 10 . 0 ... 0 ... 0 ... 0 ..... 0 .... N/A
Generator

I show the hypochlorite sources of chlorine as being pH neutral, but they do have a small amount of excess lye (or equivalent) in them so slightly raise the pH, but the main source of pH rise in pools using these chlorine sources is outgassing of carbon dioxide.

[dansdad]

all typed and entered in my Pool Care binder. Thanks much

[PoolDoc]

Chem_Geek's very helpful table, in a little different form:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lFZdvvYG7LY/U4DpK0U3P5I/AAAAAAAAHE0/eEMyx_wvtuU/s747/CG%2527s%2520chem%2520table.jpg

[dansdad]

Is there a way this can be made available out in the open for everyone....like before you ask...CHECK THIS OUT!! This is super great! looks like bleach and cal hypo are the non invasive way to go for just raising chlorine other than salt

[PoolDoc]

Yeah, I've saved it for use elsewhere. There are 2 other calcs I've asked Chem_Geek about, though.

[dansdad]

thank you