Ripped Off

[integrity]

We had done business in the past years with this particular company and had always had good service in the past so little did we suspect things had changed.
We took out a home equity line of credit, over $4100.00 for this company to repair our in ground pool.
The repairs were to replace with brand new liner and repair all damage done to the pool walls and floor. I was told the pool would be smooth and look like brand new.
Instead they put a brand new liner on top of damaged vermiculite bottom!!!! As a result our pool looks worse than it did before the repairs.
It looks like someone installed vinyl liner over pot holes in a road!! So the owner comes over to inspect my complaints. He just stands there and says, "Yeah, I agree this does NOT look good, but no one will ever notice and you can swim in it anyway and it won't hurt anything." I repeatedly told him, "But it looks worse than it did before we got the new liner." He would not answer to that and only agreed to send his "guys" back out to put the liner back in the corners that had already pulled away in the shallow end in less than 2 weeks after brand new installation!
I then showed him a huge chunk of vermiculite rocks bulging underneath the liner going down the slope to the deep end near the crease. He said, "I will have my guys come out and smash those rocks down so you won't notice it." I said, "Won't that cause a hole?" His response, "Oh, no, it will be just fine."
So again I pointed out to him that it looks like pot holes covered over by a brand new liner. He kept saying, "The problem is your vermiculite, it rolled up and gave way when they put the new liner down." Making it sound like somehow it was our fault.
So I came to your pool forum where I learned he should have repaired the vermiculite BEFORE installing the new liner!!
Also I have noticed a wrinkle on the side wall in the shallow end of the pool.
I am so upset can't sleep. He has made it plain he is not going to honor their horrible work. He has only agreed to have his "guys" pull up the corners in the shallow end and smash the bulging chunks of vermiculite to smooth them out!
What would you do if this were your pool? I feel sick. I am waiting on a return phone call some time today from an attorney about this. We feel totally ripped off.
I told him too, "You told me my pool would look like brand new and it looks worse." He would not say anything. He left my house just telling me he would send his "guys" back out to fix the pulled away corners and smash vermiculite chunks.

[PoolDoc]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Clearly there are less than competent, and less than honest pool contractors in many parts of the country. I can understand your frustration and desire to vent.

But PoolForum exist in order to inform pool owners, not to provide them a place to vent.

I'm not sure what sort of agreement you signed with your contractor, but you may have some recourse. It also might be worth talking to an attorney, just to find out what your options are. Unfortunately I doubt a lawsuit is a viable option, over a $4100 claim.

These two US News articles may help:
How to Complain to Business and Get Results (http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2011/09/13/how-to-complain-to-companies-and-get-results)
3 Best Places to Complain about a Business (http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2012/07/24/the-3-best-places-to-complain-about-a-company)

You can also file a BBB report (https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started), which might be the best way to have an impact in your area.

If you just want to vent there are at least two sites that allow that for free:
http://www.pissedconsumer.com/
http://www.ripoffreport.com/

You can also do so at http://www.angieslist.com/, but you'll have to pay, and you'll have to stand behind your claims. On the other hand, Angies List probably influences people more than the 2 sites above.

There is another option, if you have the time and passion to pursue it. Many small businesses aren't very good at 'business' -- licensing, permits, insurance, accounting, regulations, and so forth. I have often noted that the pool businesses that are best at "business" often aren't the ones that are best at the "trade", and for this reason have been reluctant to recommend a 'business investigation' as a means of screening contractors. But, after the fact is different.

Here's a sort of 'scorched earth' option:

1. Document the contract, your payments, names, vehicles and tag number of all workers, and the work done in a short printed report.
2. Place this info on a Google Site. This YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnX5nNsrFRM) explains it.
3. Locate contact info for Georgia unemployment insurance, worker's compensation insurance, and OSHA; your county business license department; and IRS reports.
4. Call each one of those to see if you can verify whether the company 'exists' -- if it's unlicensed, that alone will produce enforcement efforts.
5. File reports with the IRS on the payments you made -- if the company hasn't reported that money as income, that alone will produce a major push-back.
6. At each point, see if there are other avenues you can investigate. For example, if you have pictures of the company's trucks with 3 or 4 100 lb buckets of cal hypo in the back, you may be able to report to the DOT that you believe they may be transporting hazardous materials without having drivers with a CDL with a HazMat endorsements.
7. Be extremely careful to be ABSOLUTELY accurate in everything you do, and document yourself out the wazoo! You *WILL* be damaging this guys business, and he *CAN* sue you. If you get sloppy, he may well win!
8. So don't say, what you can't prove. Ask questions; make suggestion; provide ACCURATE information . . . but don't BMW! (bi$$$, moan, & whine - is what it's called at the school where my wife teaches).
9. If you talk to an attorney, run this past them so you can avoid any obvious pitfalls.

10. Finally, there's another option. Simply doing all the above, AFTER the fact, will gain revenge, and possibly help other pool owners. But there's another way: do the work, write the reports, but do NOT file complaints. Yet.

Instead sit down with your contractor, and lay all this out in front of him, in an organized manner. List 5, 10, 20 complaints or notifications you are going to provide against him. Document that you are being ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE.

THEN, give him the alternative to fix your pool instead.

But you'll need to keep yourself in check. If you are in rant mode, he will probably ALSO go into rant mode. If you are cold, rational, and accurate . . . he may get scared. Angry rant mode is NOT helpful to you; scared is. You can almost certainly cost him more than $4100. The *rational* thing for him to do is 'cave', but people who are angry and defensive often aren't rational. You want rational, so you must be controllled.

Good luck.

[integrity]

Thank you for this extremely valuable information. I have already filed a complaint over the Internet this morning with the Better Business Bureau.
I have already contacted an attorney's office because I am so sick and tired of being ripped off by people that I trusted.

I apologize for venting on here, I did not know it was not allowed. Please forgive me. I will use the resources you have given to me and hope and pray it does not have to go that far and he will just do what is right and honorable.

[PoolDoc]

I'd just caution you, in talking to an attorney, that they don't prosper by getting paid $400 for a 2 hour consult; they prosper by getting paid $8,000 for a small, easy lawsuit that takes 5 hours of their time, and 30 hours from a legal secretary getting paid $20/hr.

Not all attorneys are crooks . . . actually, few of them are! Technically, since they know how to steal LEGALLY, hardly any attorneys are crooks! But it's like the situation with orthopedic surgeons: the ones that drive a new Mercedes SLS or Lexus LS, schedule patients for surgery within 2 appointments. The ones that try therapy first drive new Toyotas!

[integrity]

I am really hoping that the Better Business Bureau can get me justice. That is what I prefer. All I want is what I paid for, a brand new liner that is supposed to look like it is brand new. Instead this one looks as if beaten with a baseball bat from end to end.

<RANT REMOVED - ADMIN>

I understand what you are typing to me about an attorney. They will probably not figure it is worth their time. So I will fight them with BBB. They notified me by email that they will notify the business that ripped us off in 1 to 2 business days. Then they give the business 14 days to respond. If they don't respond they send another notice in the mail. Then they claim they try to have it resolved in 30 business days.

Seriously I am thinking about calling a local television reporter if BBB can't help. This just isn't right folks.

I don't want revenge. I am not that kind of person. We just want what we PAID for!!

@BigTallGuy very good advice!

I will certainly follow the steps you recommend. Yes he has 4 other complaints against him and one of them is the exact same complaint as mine! But I get the feeling all that customer did was post a negative review about him on Yahoo connected to his business address along with directions and phone number. I posted my complaint right along with their complaint this morning! I will do as you suggest right now!

Thank you!

[BigTallGuy]

Here is also another area to investigate. If your Contractor was licensed, you can also file a complaint with the Registry of Contractors in your State or County. In my neck of the woods, Licensed Contrators have to post a Bond with the State (or agency), and I believe they must also be insured. You can file a complaint against their license and find out if there are other complaints. Too many complaints will result in a Review and possible disciplinary action by the State, including loss of their Bond Money. I am sure the laws and regulations vary from state to state and even County to County, but it is worth looking into. Find out if the Contractor was even licensed to do the work to start with. For example, did he do electrical work under a General (non-electrical) license etc.?

[PoolDoc]

Good point.

A lot of areas in Georgia have no enforced pool contractor licensing, but I should added that as a possible avenue.

[integrity]

I just got off the phone and found yes this business that ripped us off is licensed, BUT, upon hearing what they have done to us they forwarded my call immediately to Magistrate Court and said if they don't respond to BBB complaints I should sue them in Magistrate Court. So those are the steps I plan on taking at this point.

Sigh..............why can't people just do right?

[Phillbo]

When you took out the HELOC did they issue you a Visa card to use to access the funds? If they did and you used that card number to pay the crook, call the number on the card and dispute the transaction.


I ALWAYS pay for repair and service work with a credit card. It gives you recourse. Big ticket items, pay with the card and use the HELOC to pay off the card balance.

[PoolDoc]

Integrity, you need to be careful in what you post, going forward.

We understand that you've had a bad time with your contractor . . . but many, many people have here have had their own bad pool experiences.

However, PoolForum has ALWAYS been about helping people solve problems, rather than being somewhere to vent. As I said, if you want to vent, there are other places that allow that..

[integrity]

The HLOC already went through and we have been making payments before the job was even done. The reason is in the past we had done business with this company for years. Years and never had any problems but good service. This caught us totally by surprise! They have changed and NOT for the better. Somewhere the man in charge lost his ethics and morals along the way. So at this point if BBB does not get us satisfaction we go to Magistrate Court from here.

The lady I talked to at Magistrate Court stated I have a good solid case and they will probably settle outside of that. That is good news. She said I should get a total refund! So I finally have some peace about it. Now I just have to wait it all out.