Filter / Pumps / New Pool

[rkooz]

Hello,

I am looking to purchase a 17' x 52" Summer Escapes metal frame above ground pool. It has listed to include one C type filter cartridge with built-in chlorinator that uses 1" tablets, one filter + skimmer pump system with GFCI protection.

I was told by someone at a local pool store (who do not sell neither Intex or Summer Escapes type pools) that the pump/system is not enough. I am confused as to what exactly is a filter compared to a pump so I apologies for incorrect terminology, but I heard that getting a bigger Intex filter/pump would work if I figured out how to attached it to the filter/skimmer and can figure out how to do so on YouTube.

I guess my questions are 1. is what comes with the pool enough? 2. If not, what should I be looking into to "convert"

Also, same but different topic - what is the difference between chlorine vs. sand vs. salt? Do they run together or are separate and one is better than the next.

Thank you for your patience and advise.

[PoolDoc]

Before you buy a Summer Escapes pool, read this info page about the different soft-side pools: http://pool9.net/sspool-info/

And, read the Super Simple recipe page: http://pool9.net/ssr/

None of the filter and pump combos that come with the soft side pools are great, but Intex does have some upgrade options. Summer Escapes does not, and I don't think the adapters that allow you to use standard pool gear with Intex pools will work on Summer Escapes. However, IF you get the Unicel cartridges for a Summer Escapes AND you are careful to avoid algae, the water will stay reasonably clear.

+ Chlorine is the primary (and best) pool sanitizer (kills germs), algaecide (kills algae), and oxidizer (burns up 'goo')

+ Sand is the filter media inside sand filters. Other filter media include fabric cartridges and DE powder.

+ Salt is just table salt -- sodium chloride. BUT SWCG's (salt water chlorine generators) use electricity to convert the "chloride" into "chlorine".

. . . . membership updated.

[DreamGaz]

I just bought the 24' version of this pool, so I can provide some information.

First off the built in clorinator it is refering to is a joke. Basicly the filters that they sell have a hollow middle and they recommend you put 1 inch clorine tablets in there. It in no way produces clorine.

The included filter is the bare minium and very noisy. You will have to run it a lot longer than a stronger filter to get any results and have to watch your water carefully. My orignial plan was to use the filter until it broke and then upgrade. I have multiple years of frame pool experience and after one month I have already decide this filter is not worth running. The included filter system could not filter the dirt from the bottom of my pool. It would pass through the filter system right back to the bottom of my pool. Nothing ticks me off more than to vacuum the bottom of the pool and see a trail of dirt coming out of the filter system.

You can connect a different filter to the outlet of the existing hole exit with clamps. You will have to play a bit with hose sizes depending on what filter you upgrade to.

[rkooz]

Thank you both!

[rkooz]

Again, thank you. Some things came UP, but based on the links, I finally got an Intex 18' x 48" Ultra Frame pool with Krystal Clear Filter Pump. It has a 90% capacity of 6,423 gallons. I will now re-read the Super Simple recipe page link. Hopefully do all the proper tests and have it up for next weekend. I'm sure I'll have plenty of more questions.
Ben - you mentioned that Intex has some good filter upgrade options. I saw a Krystal Clear saltwater system at the store. Is this recommended? From what you posted, if I am correct, this converts salt to chlorine. What is the benefit compared to regular chlorine filter?

Rich

[Pappy]

This is our 3rd summer with a 15'X48" Intex, we upgraded to a sand filter this year. SO much easier and will be less cost than a seasons worth of Intex cartridges. We didn't learn about Unicell and Filbur replacements until after the sand filter was ordered, so I can't comment about the cost and effectiveness of those. Intex cartridges DO let LOTS of "stuff" bypass.

This is the setup we have
http://www.intexcorp.com/index.php/home/above-ground-pools/agp-accessories/sand-filter-pumps/56673eg.html
It is larger than we need for our 15' pool but should work very nicely for your 18'.

If your pool came with the 1-1/2" screw connection hoses and plunger valves, it is a fairly straight forward change over. If you have the 1-1/4" clamp on hoses, it is a little more involved.

Here's a link to our change over thread.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/23562-Intex-cartridge-to-sand-filter-changeover.?p=117041#post117041

There are several SWCG options here
http://www.intexcorp.com/index.php/home/above-ground-pools/agp-accessories/saltwater-system.html
I'll tell you upfront that the ozone generator is not generally recommended (at least on this forun) for outdoor pools, so don't waste the extra money on that. Also, I'm pretty sure that ALL Intex SWCGs include a copper ionizer, and you "PROBABLY" will want to disconnect it, unless you like turning blonde hair green and stains on your liner.

Good Luck and ENJOY your new pool!

Pappy

[rkooz]

Thank you, Pappy. Sorry for being slow on this, (although I'm past the phase of "just add water") but when you recommend the sand filter, is that just to replace the cartridge filter? Meaning, still chlorine, etc.? My understanding was that the SWCG would mean no more adding chlorine since the salt would be converted.

[Pappy]

We did not get the SWCG, just the sand filter. I add bleach every other day. The SWCG is probably even less maintenance than manual chlorination, but you still need to get the water "balanced" manually before starting the SWCG and if you do run into a problem, it's best to turn the SWCG off and manually clean up the mess before restarting, so we opted not to go that route. I'm not saying by any means, that SWCGs are a bad thing for everybody. That decision is based on your needs and preferences, and there are plenty of people on this site that love their SWCGs and would never go back to manual chlorination.

If you decide to replace the filter and/or get a SWCG, Amazon had the best prices I could find, considerably less than direct from Intex. If you do order from Amazon, start here
http://www.poolforum.com/amz/
and the PoolForum will get a little commission on what ever you buy to help keep the lights on.

Hope this is helpful.

Pappy

[rkooz]

I just want to confirm something based on the super simple recipe page PoolDoc posted and what Pappy mentioned about bleaching every other day. As silly as this may sound to people on this forum - it's regular (8.25%) bleach, right? I'm going to start to fill my pool one day this week and will put in the (for me) 2 cups of bleach after the first 6 inches of water is in the pool.

Once the pool is filled, do I discard the bleach (unless issues arise)? I ask this because one of the lines from the pool recipe states:
"Because you'll may have to order some things, we've included a 7-day 'get-by-with-bleach' option, to follow if you have to wait for supplies to arrive."

Is bleach out in favor of the dichlor dose that I will be putting in every evening and 1/2 dose before group swim?

[PoolDoc]

Bleach isn't out of favor, but the SS recipe uses dichlor to add BOTH stabilizer AND chlorine. The whole idea was to minimize the complexity on new pools.

Bleach is an EXCELLENT way to 'shock' a pool -- say after you have a bunch of kids in. But it doesn't add stabilizer.

[Watermom]

If you have the dichlor, then you go ahead and start using that instead of the bleach. At the point that your CYA has built up to around 50ppm, then you'll stop using dichlor and switch over to bleach so the CYA doesn't get too high. (Yes, regular household unscented 8.25% bleach. Walmart generic is what many of us use.)

[Watermom]

Another simul-post! ;) (Both of us saying the basically the same thing.)

[rkooz]

Thank you. One last question (at this time). While filing up the pool, should the filter be running (at least when the water reaches over the intake)? If not, when would be the best time to run filter for the first time and when after that?

[Watermom]

You can start it as soon as the water level is high enough to fill the skimmer.

[rkooz]

ok, pool is filling. Do not have the test kit from Amazon yet, but have the 3 part tester from walmart and will be testing (when filled?) another question, a friend of mine used to have an Intex (maybe the Summer one) pool and he bought something called Star Shock. Ingredients is 12.5% sodium hypochlorite and 87.5% other ingredients. He is offering two gallons to me. Is this something that would be useful to me or is it going to sit in my shed as I try to figure out what to do with dangerous chemicals.

[Watermom]

If the other 87.5% ingredients are just water, then it is fine. It is simply a stronger concentration of bleach. If you are unsure if there are other things in there besides sodium hypo and water, then I would pass on it.

[rkooz]

Will avoid using the Star Shock as I have no idea what the "other" ingredients are. I am filling up the pool and added the bleach (2 doses) after 6 inches. I'm waiting for the water to get above the skimmer and I will turn filter on. Manual states to leave on for 6 hours.

Water currently looks yellow. I will test sometime tonight after pool is near full with the 3 part test.

[Watermom]

Are you filling from a well or city water?

[rkooz]

City water

[Watermom]

Yellowish tinge to the water sounds like it could be metals. Look in the back of your toilet tank and see if there are water stains and if so, what color?

[rkooz]

The mark there is brown.

[rkooz]

Also, can someone point me in the right direction in how to read an hth 3 part tester. I tried the pH side. I inserted into pool to fill to top line, put in 5 red drops, closed top inverted and inverted back and the entire column was red. I either have high pH or I'm doing something wrong. Similar thing happened on the chlorine/yellow side.

[Watermom]

How high was your chlorine when you tested the pH? If it was higher than 5ppm, then you'll get falsely high pH. You can dilute the sample to test when your chlorine is past 5ppm. Take 1/4 cup pool water and 1/4 cup distilled water, mix it and then test pH with that.

For the chlorine side of the tester, if your chlorine is higher than 5ppm, you can use the chart at this link to help you interpret the colors that are off the scale of the tester:> http://pool9.net/oto-chart/

[rkooz]

Again, I'm not too sure I'm reading these things correctly but it seemed that it read the highest levels. For the Chlorine side, as soon as I put in the yellow drops and invert, it just turns yellow. Looking at the chart provided, maybe that's what it's supposed to do. I will do the tests today that you (Watermom) mentioned above. Yesterday I was home from work, today I'm not so it will take a little bit.

[rkooz]

I went out this morning to do a test again (not the one mentioned above, need distilled water for that) but I maybe have realized something. The colors on the tester show what the ppm is based on the shade of color the water and the OTO or (whatever the red is called). If that is the case, I have a very low chlorine count (very light yellow) and a very high pH count (dark red). Hope this helps you help me.

[Watermom]

If the yellow is very light, then you need chlorine. Add some bleach so your pool won't turn green.

On the pH test, is the red darker than the darkest one on the tester (which for most kits is 8.2)?

What did you decide. Are you going to use the Super Simple Recipe we linked in one of the posts above or just use bleach. We need to know so we can give you better advice.

[rkooz]

I'm having a friend stop by and add bleach. I believe the red was as dark as the darkest one.

I will be using the Super Simple Recipe. Just waiting on some stuff from amazon. I should have by this weekend. But until then, bleach. Should I do anything with the Mule Borax at this point? That I found at the local store.

[PoolDoc]

If your pH reading is 'red', you don't need to add borax. Borax would be needed of the result was yellow or orange (low pH)

[rkooz]

As I mentioned, I asked a friend to go over and add some bleach to the pool (3 doses/cups). I also asked him to confirm that it said 8.25%, which it did. He did mention that it said "Concentrated" on it and I could get 186 (i think) washes compared to 125. Will this make a difference (the concentrated part).

[PoolDoc]

"Concentrated" is just a word on the label; it doesn't mean anything. the "8.25% sodium hypochlorite" is the only thing with a real meaning.

[rkooz]

Just got home and tested pool. Looks like I have no chlorine in the pool (stayed white after drops) and the pH looks the shade of 7.2-7.5. I am going to get distiller water now and do the test mentioned above.

Separate question, is it important to put on pool cover?

[Watermom]

If your chlorine is low (below 5ppm), then you don't need to use the distilled water to test pH. That dilution method is only necessary if your chlorine reading is over 5ppm.

Get some chlorine in that pool asap! While you are just using bleach, your chlorine is going to disappear fast since you have no CYA in the pool yet. For now, you probably need to add bleach a couple of times per day so it never drops down to 0 like it apparently did today. That is an open invitation to algae! It doesn't take long for a pool to turn green!

Whether to cover the pool is strictly a matter of preference. It will use less chlorine without the sun's rays hitting the water. But, whether the cover is on or not, you still need to run your pump/filter for several hours per day.

[rkooz]

Ok, my local pool store is closed so I just put in 6 doses of bleach. Is that enough? I am running filter now for the designated 6 hours per instruction manual.

[Watermom]

That should add slightly less than 5ppm of chlorine which is ok for a pool with no CYA. You may need to add some midday tomorrow in addition to your evening dose.

[rkooz]

I added the bleach last night as I mentioned (I actually did 8 doses) and ran the filter as per manual. Checked the levels today and the chlorine looked to be 5ppm (what should it be at and what is CYA stand for?) and the pH looked at 7.5. While my pool is not crystal clear, still having some kind of tinge, it looks really good and the best it has. I hope to have my order from Amazon this weekend which included the unicel filters, test kit and Kem-Tek 013 Pool and Spa All-in-One Concentrated Chlorinating Granules. I have the Mule Borax. Until then I'll use the bleach unless someone suggest different.

Thanks for everyone's help! Much appreciated!!

[Watermom]

CYA stands for cyanuric acid which is also sometimes called stabilizer. It is kind of like sunscreen for your chlorine. All outdoor pools need some or otherwise you quickly lose the chlorine to the sun ---- which is what will happen in your pool for the first few days. After you start using the dichlor which is a stabilized form of chlorine which means that it has chlorine and CYA in it, your CYA level will gradually rise and you'll start to see your chlorine lasting longer. You don't want too much CYA; most pools do well at around 50ppm. So, once you hit that, you'll want to switch back to only using bleach.

For now, while using bleach and having no CYA, each time you add bleach, aim to get it up to about 5-6ppm. It won't stay there long and as I noted in a previous post, you'll probably need to add it a couple times per day so you make sure it doesn't drop to 0. Once you get CYA in there, the needed chlorine level will change. Read this for more info about the relationship between CYA and chlorine:> http://pool9.net/cl-cya/
(After the CYA level builds up, you'll be able to go to testing and adding chlorine in the evening only.)

When you start using dichlor, wait about 10 days to 2 weeks before you test the CYA for the first time or else you'll just be wasting your testing reagents. The test can't read anything level below 30ppm. It is not a test that you do too often.

[rkooz]

Basic silly question. I received the kem tek chemicals. How does one open the lid?

[PoolDoc]

Which chemical?

[rkooz]

While I'm. It home right now, I believe it was off the link under the super simple recipe for the stabilizer/chlorine

[PoolDoc]

It's a container of stabilizer?

I haven't been hands on with all the Kem-Tek packages, but almost all small CYA containers are either screw lid or else a pop-off lid that can be lifted, using a screw-driver to pry or pop it off.

[rkooz]

Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, it's stabilizer and I got it opened. Using it with the Borax. Need to start using the K 2600 kit now get some more readings. Thanks everyone for the help!