pH above 8 15ft X 48in Intex

[Pappy]

We currently have a "Pool Shop" basic 5 test kit that measures PH up to 8.2. We are very near or at max, which means we may be over the max. I assume CYA is zero because we used bleach to chlorinate last year, but this kit doesn't test that. My wife is the chemist (she teaches high school chemestry and has a masters in biology) so she took care of the chemicals and I did the dirty work.

We had big problems last year because we had no clue about CYA stabilizer and we spent a TON of money on floculant and algaecides (HTH linear quat I think). We also had no clue that better cartridges were available for the crappy little pump supplied with the pool. We have upgraded to an Intex 14" sand filter. I strongly recommend replacing the Intex cartridge unit with the Intex 1600 gpm (.5 hp pump) 14" sand filter (model # SF80110) for pools 3000 to 14000 gallons. We got the 2150 gph (.75 hp) unit and it needs to be throttled for our pool. Our pool looks better now than it did for much of last summer and we are having to clean up a "swamp" because water restrictions prohibit drain and refill. I tested the water this afternoon just before sundown. We will be using the BBB method.

All that said,
TC 0
TA 30
pH 8+

Now the questions.

1. With a 4500 gallon pool, what product should I use to lower the pH? I'd rather not have to store (or dispose of) muriatic acid, but if that's the best way, maybe.

2. How much should I use and how often?

3. is there any reason to go lower than 7.8?

4. What chlorine level should I have in the evening after adding household bleach?

5. Should I add CYA directly and continue to use bleach or use dichlor to get the CYA levels up slowly and then switch back to bleach?

6. Is it reasonable to expect the Taylor 2006A to last the whole summer without ordering refills?

7. Since we are cleaning a swamp, and planning on at least one week long trip,,, polyquat?

8. What kind of pre-vacation prep should be done to minimize heartache?

[Watermom]

1. If you don't want to use muriatic acid, you can use dry acid (PH Down).

2. I have never used PH Down so can't comment on amounts.

3. Any pH reading between 7.2-7.8 is ok.

4. Since you have no CYA and you are cleaning up a swamp, I'd aim for a shock level of around 10-12ppm. (If you haven't yet done so, read the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below.)

5. You can do it either way. Doesn't really matter. Using dichlor is an easy way to add chlorine and CYA but either way works.

6. You may need to refill the R-0870 and R-0871 and likely the CYA testing reagent. Actually, the K-2006C is a better buy --- 2 oz. bottles instead of 3/4 oz. bottles. Once you get the pool cleaned up, you may want to just use a cheap OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops) for daily testing and use the good kit periodically. That is what I do.)

7. Is your trip soon? Or will you have time to clean the swamp first? You can certainly use some polyquat. But, don't use any other type of algaecide.

8. Depends on how long you are going to be gone. Get your pool cleaned up, take your chlorine up to shock level. Maybe have a neighbor come in every few days and add some bleach.

Hope this helps.

[Pappy]

I can get Kem-Tek CYA and Clorox Polyquat 60 at the local Lowes. We already have several jugs of 8.25% bleach. I was thinking I'd get pool clean with bleach, then bring the cya up to 40 or 50, after that see what I need to do with the pH. Will it be a big problem if the pH is too high for another week or 2? How much CYA should I add to 4500 gallons at a time. I think I read wait a week between doses.

I have read the "Best Guess", and LOTS of other great stuff here and at PoolSolutions.com.

I intend to have a SPARKLING, SWEET, SAFE pool before the first scheduled outing.

We won't be gone more than a couple of days until some time late June, after that, probably 7 or 8 days at most.

Thanks

[BigDave]

1) Muriatic Acid(Hydrochloric Acid) is cleanest(adds nothing unwanted). Sodium Bisulfate(pool store Dry Acid) is also available and eaisier to handle and store. As your better half is a chemistry teacher would she have access to an inventory of HCl that someone else stores and maintains? It might be worth the red tape.
2) Add a little. Let it mix. Measure again. Repeat as necessary. Please review Using Muriatic Acid to Safely Lower Your Pool's pH (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/13111-Using-Muriatic-Acid-to-Safely-Lower-Your-Pool-s-pH)
3) Maybe for some, but probably not for your pool. Do keep it within the range of your test so you can see it move.
4) Please see Ben's Best Guess Chart (http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/best-guess-swimming-pool-chlorine-chart.html).
5) I like to add CYA with dichlor, it the fastest dissolving form of dry CYA and gives needed chlorine as well.
6) I think everyone burns through the CYA test. Cleaning a swamp will take it's toll on the chlorine tests. Hint: use a cheap OTO test for daily checking.
7) No need to pour polyquat into the pea soup. Chlorine to kill the algae then filter out the cloud.
8) Dunno. Polyquat helps keep clean water clean. Fill a floater with trichlor pucks and tie it in the center of the pool. Teach a neighbor to add bleach.

Sorry Watermom I didn't see your post when I started mine.

[Watermom]

Not a problem, Dave. :)

[Pappy]

Am I figuring right that one 121 ounce jug of 8.25% bleach should raise my FC by ~15 ppm? So if my FC is zero, dump a jug at sundown?

[PoolDoc]

Yeah, 15 ppm should be about right.

Regarding vacation, there are 3 possible options:

1. HiC2 => CYA > 100 ppm & FC > 20 ppm when leaving.
2. 3x doses of polyquat AND removing cartridge from filter OR bypassing sand filter (Polyquat tends to collect on the filter.)
3. Borates > 60 ppm (protects against green algae.)
4. Phosphates < 125 ppb (protects against both green and mustard algae)

Regardless, you want to be sure that your pool is very clean and algae free the week before AND that your filter is in good shape

[Pappy]

I can get Kem-Tek CYA and Clorox Polyquat 60 at the local Lowes for a kinda reasonable price. We already have several jugs of 8.25% bleach. I was thinking I'd get pool clean with bleach, then bring the cya up to 40 or so with the Kem-Tek, then, after that see what I need to do with the pH. Will it be a big problem if the pH is too high for another week or 2? How much CYA should I add to 4500 gallons at a time? I think I read wait a week between doses.

[PoolDoc]

"Clorox Polyquat 60" Clorox brand polyquat? Really? That's new.

Try to keep the pH between 7 & 8 at all times. Below 6.0, it can definitely damage your liner.

[Pappy]

http://www.lowes.com/pd_576066-1327-26419165502_0__?productId=50146168&Ntt=agaecide&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dagaecide&facetInfo=

Since I'm over 8 (unless 2" of rain lowers pH significantly) I have a little wiggle room on the lower side.

How much CYA should I add at a time?

[PoolDoc]

Very interesting -- thanks for the link. I had no idea they were doing that.

Keep in mind that Kem-Tek's product (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI0Y/scouscho-20) costs 35% less -- $17.99 vs $27.98 -- so if you buy ahead, you can save quite a bit.

[Pappy]

Is a quarter cup of 99% CYA a reasonable place to start if there is none in 4500 gallons? pH8+?

[PoolDoc]

CYA is about 2# / quart. 1 lb will add about 20 ppm to your pool.

So, no, that's not enough. Put about 2 cups in an old sock, and hang it in front of the return.

[Pappy]

Why not pour it in the skimmer and let it sit in the sand filter til it disolves? I need to wait a week between doses don't I?

[PoolDoc]

Most people have to backwash their pool frequently when they start it up -- and end up losing their CYA. If you're sure you want need to do so, go ahead.

[Pappy]

Added 121 oz 8.25 bleach to the pool at sundown. Just checked cl. I'm getting 2 or a little more FC and 5 CC. My pH is as I suspected, probably astronomical. I added 4 drops of the red stuff instead of 5, so it should have shown a lower pH than actual. Still LOOKED like 8.2. I gave it another jug of bleach.

I guess the plan is go get the CYA tomorrow after I confirm my theory that FC will be zero and CC will be who knows where. Stick some in the pool to get the pH to a measurable point. If I understand correctly, the CYA actually inhibits the effectiveness of the chlorine so it is desirable to keep CYA low til the pool is stable overnight.

[PoolDoc]

With which test kit are you testing?

[Pappy]

We currently have a "Pool Shop basic 5 test kit" from Home Depot. It is the drops but reads only to 5ppm chlorine. It says FC is what you see between 2 and 3 seconds and CC is >2 minutes. I'm going to wally world today to get the HTH kit so I can monitor CYA levels.

We got about 1-1/2" of rain last night and this morning the pH showed 7 - 7.2??? Can rain bring pH down that much? FC was in the 2-3 range. It's supposed to be cloudy today, should I dump another jug or wait til evening.

[PoolDoc]

Rain can have a low pH; whether it can lower the pH in your pool depends on the buffer level (total alkalinity). it's also possible the rain has not mixed with the rest of the pool. I'd wait & retest before trying to adjust the pH

[Pappy]

I assume this is NOT the kind of DE to use as a filter aid.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Safer-Brand-4-lb-Diatomaceous-Earth-Ant-and-Crawling-Insect-Killer-51702/202743025

[PoolDoc]

Good assumption. There are different grades, and I have no idea if that one would be OK or not. Some grades definitely would NOT be OK.

[Pappy]

No more green! Kept FC between 5 and 15 for little over 24 hrs. Checked it every hour or so, when it got close to 5 (max for my kit), I'd brush the whole pool and dump half a jug of bleach which should have jacked the FC to around 15. The pool is cloudy blue now, as I expected. I got this
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-D.E-Filter-Aid-10-lb/20434370 (the picture is wrong, description is correct) and put 1/4 cup in my filter. Many of the local Walmarts stock it. Had to backflush after about 30 minutes. About 1/8 cup is seems to be plenty for my filter. After I get the water cleared up, I'll add CYA til it gets to about 40 and we'll be set.

Thanks a ZILLION!

[PoolDoc]

How did you conclude that you needed to backwash for 30 minutes?

[Pappy]

I didn't. The filter stopped up about 30 minutes after I added the DE. I backwashed til the discharge water was clear.

[PoolDoc]

OK, I understand.

The short filter runs result from the DE catching stuff in the water.