Intermatic Pool Timer Wiring

[sjeffers01]

I have a three wire electrical plug setup and need to connect it to the timer. The instructions are on the door panel but I don't understand them. I want to know what color wire or terminal I am supposed to connect it to. The pump wiring was already done but one of the blue wires from the pump was loose. I was told I needed a three wire cord and plug. I brought in my pump manual and the assistant at Home Depot new about the Intermatic Timer and helped me buy what I needed. I couldn't find instructions that I can understand on connecting the power cord to the timer. I have attached a picture of the timer box that shows how I connected the power cord wires and the blue one that was loose. I am hoping that someone can tell me if it is wired correctly and if not, point out what I need to correct.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jgNAFk1DOOU/U24aF2oCOVI/AAAAAAAAHAg/BRLclewyuq4/s640/Intermatic%2520Pool%2520Timer%2520Wiring.jpg

[PoolDoc]

Unfortunately, you haven't provided nearly enough info in order for me to help you. The colors are arbitrary. Usually, green = ground, and white = common, but this is not always the case. Other colors can be anything. So . . .

Take pictures of the overall set up, all labels and diagrams, and the pump and its diagram, and the wiring source.

[BigDave]

Also pictures of the plug, how it's wired and its markings. Maybe that's what PoolDoc meant when he said wiring source

[PoolDoc]

Thx, Dave.

[sjeffers01]

The pump is a Whisperflo 3/4 horsepower single speed. The power to the Intermatic is a three pronged 15 A 125V plug that is connected to its own GFI circuit (or whatever you call it.) It was installed for the pool pump. something The wiring information for the T10R Intermatic Pool Timer and the Instructions are attached. A picture of the back of the pump and the wiring instructions are attached..

================================================== ====

I forgot to give you the color of the wires from the three pronged plug. They are White, Green, and Black ground. I also have the timer pins for the Intermatic. I hope I provided enough information and thank everyone for helping me out.

[PoolDoc]

I've got to say, you're making me really nervous. Messing with pool wiring, if you don't know what you're doing, is a great way to hurt yourself, hurt your family, or destroy equipment.

I deleted 2 of the attachments; they were too small to be very useful. They did provide some info: you have an I-matic T104R timer, which I believe is an 24hr DPST timer. (T104R instructions (http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Time%20Switches/Mechanical%20Time%20Switches/24%20Hour/T100%20Series/T104R%20Instructions.ashx)) And you have a 3/4 HP Whisperflo. More info is needed.

Let me summarize what I think you've told us; please correct any errors:

1. You have a 3/4 HP Whisperflo, wired for 120V.
2. You've used extension cord cable, inside NMT flex conduit. This cable has only 2 wires, and no ground wire.
+ ? Is the extension cord cable coming from the power source (GFCI receptacle) or going to the pump?
+ ? Why are you connecting a pump to a GFCI?
+ ? Why is there no ground wire on one of the connections?
+ ? Why do you have flexible cable INSIDE conduit?
3. You're installing a metal case T104R timer, which MUST be grounded AND bonded.

+ ? Do you understand the difference between bonding and grounding?
4. A Whisperflo can be wired either 120V or 240V.
+ ? Are you sure your pump is wired 120V?
+ ? At 120V, all wiring must be 12 gauge, and must not be longer than 100ft total distance from a main power panel. Longer runs must be fed from an intermediate panel, wired with #10 or larger. Have you checked this?
+ ? Do you understand that undersized wiring can 'kill' your pump?
5. The T104R is intended for use with 220-240V circuits, but can be used with 120V circuits.
+ ? Do you understand the way US 120/240V house wiring is done, with L1, L2, C & Gnd, where L1 <-> L2 is 240V, L1 -> C is 120V, and L2 -> C is 120V and C <-> Gnd is 0V?

You're a subscriber, so I'm going the distance here with you, but I'm getting the feeling you're in over your head on this one. Please email LARGE pictures to poolforum@gmail.com, and include ALL of the following shots:
1. Pump motor label.
2. Over all shot that includes pump, timer, and power source for timer.
3. Shot of the power source for the timer (GFCI?)
4. Shot of the end of the 3 wire cord, and also of how that cord relates to the NMT flex conduit.
5. Shot of the end-bell of the pump, with the electrical cover plate removed, showing the way the pump is wired.
6. Shot of the pool (what kind of pool do you have?)


I can't emphasize enough: do this wrong, and the best outcome will be that you destroy your pump. But making mistakes with this could kill a family member -- I mean that literally, not figuratively, as in, "Call the morgue, not the ambulance!".

[BigDave]

PoolDoc may be more comfortable than I am, but from what I've seen so far, I recommend you hire a licensed electrician with pool experience.

Please do not connect this to an electrical source.

Sorry Ben posting at the same time.

[sjeffers01]

The answer to your question about the cable it is a three wire (green, white, black is ground) with a three pronged plug 15A 125V. It isn't an extension cord. I bought one cable and one plug. It plugs into the outlet and has to be connected to the Intermatic Timer to run the pump. If the GFCI receptacle has one of those reset switches correct and it was used for another pool pump. The flexible cable is 12 gauge. It is inside because the 12 g cable has a three prong plug at the end of it to run the timer and the pump. The cable is less than five feet long. An electrician installed the plug to run another pool pump for a 30+ long above ground pool. The person who owned the pool before me had a cable with a plug that provided the electricity to the timer. The pool is a Legacy Laguna soft side portable above ground pool 13w x 21L x 48D. I do understand what can happen if wired incorrectly and how dangerous it is. I won't plug it in until it is wired correctly and someone else checks it if you don't think I've done it right .

[PoolDoc]

OK. pictures, pictures, pictures.

I think I have an idea what needs to be done, but it will require some changes, and I won't know till I see the pictures requested. But, the info you provided added a question:

+ ? Has the circuit you have ever been used on this pump?
+ ? If not, what are the listed run amps on the motor AND the listed run amps on the previous motor? (One way to answer is simply to include large pictures of both labels.)
+ ? On the 3-wire cable, you say "black is ground". Why is that?
(Blue is NOT a standard color, but is usually a power wire. However the B-W-G colors in a mfg'd cable ARE standard, with black=line (120V), white=common, and green=ground. That is what SHOULD be the case. It is dangerous to leave wiring in another state, because workers or homeowners at a later date are likely to assume that the standard will prevail.)

I just checked your picture again; I can see the black wire now that I look for it. Why in the world would you connect black to ground?

I'm sorry, but you are scaring me a lot with stuff like that. Right now, I'm very reluctant to give you instructions, lest it lead to someone being injured or killed. I have *personally* been nearly killed, twice, by bad do-it-yourself wiring on pools, and twice more (in years past, when I worked a plumber) by fly-by-night electricians or maintenance men cutting corners. One of those occasions was the origin of my hatred of conduit grounding! I also -- myself -- nearly killed a lifeguard, by not thinking through what could go wrong with a vacuum cart I made, even though that cart was 'code-compliant'.

Every body thinks it won't happen to them: I know better.

Is it totally out of the question to hire an electrician?

[sjeffers01]

I am not sure if my reply to this thread went through. Please disregard if you have. I do know that green is always ground. I thought it was strange. At least I made sure the black ground is connected to the green ground in the timer. The three prong plug had a hole label for each color. I must of misread it. I will fix it. I sent the pictures.

[sjeffers01]

I forgot to tell you that the GFCI receptacle has not been used for this pump. It was used for a pump I had over thirty years ago. I fixed the plug cable and made sure green is ground from end to end.

[sjeffers01]

I found some instructions for wiring the timer and it works. I attached a picture of it wired correctly but hadn't set the tripper pins. The timer keeps turning off and turning on for a minute or five minutes, or 15 to twenty minutes before I set the tripper pins. After I set the tripper pins the timer still turns off and on like before. Does anyone have any idea why and how to fix it. Thank you. I attached some photos of the timer and my pool system.

[PoolDoc]

The timer should not toggle without trippers in place. If it's doing so, the timer mechanism must be bad. The silver handle, just above the white wire in the photo, is the manual trip. Try toggling it back and forth -- it should turn the pump on, and then off, but should not be loose or floppy.

If necessary, you should be able to take this model:

Intermatic-T104-208-277-Volt-Mechanical-Switch (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BQOX88/poolbooks/)
and swap the guts out, without having to rewire the box.

If you want a whole new timer, you'll need one like this, with an outdoor case:

INTERMATIC-T104P3-TIMER-INDOOR-OUTDOOR (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001DNVNPO/poolbooks/)

[sjeffers01]

If I leave the timer the way it is, will it damage the pump? If not, should I keep the pump if it doesn’t cost twice as much or more for electricity to run and fix or replace the timer? I ran my old Intex pump 24 hours a day seven days a week during the summer and I paid around $10 to $15 more a month for electricity. My pool only holds 8190 gallons and the GPM is 17.07, I have a total of 10 feet or less of total return piping. The single speed pump rate is 90 GPM. The Pentair Clean and Clear filter Plus CCP-240 flow rate is 90 GPM and turnover capacity for eight hours is 43,200 gallons. My pool would turn over 42 times per eight-hour cycle. It is my understanding that a pump that exceeds the recommended turnover rate still needs to run a minimum of five to eight hours a day to properly circulate and clean the water. I don’t know why the previous owner bought an in-ground pool pump and filter for the size of this pool and sell everything for $300 ($250 + $50 to deliver.) The same used pump and filter is for sale on Ebay for over $600 without the pool. If I sell the pump and filter, I could buy another pump and filter for my size pool and could end up with more money than I paid for the pool. I still prefer to keep what I have if the cost of electricity this year is less than what I originally paid for the pool. Your opinion is appreciated.

[PoolDoc]

1. Don't run the pump with a wonky timer!

2a. Either fix the timer, and get enough tripper to run 3x per day for 30 - 45 minutes each time OR
2b. Get a new pump

3. You might want to consider keeping the filter. One of the nice things about cartridge filters is, you can't get one that's too big. With this filter, you'll likely only need to clean it 1x each year -- preferably before closing.

[sjeffers01]

I will do as you suggested and add two sets of tripper pins to run the pump three times a day. You Tube has a video on how to do just that. Running the pump three times should keep my electric bill down. I will keep the filter and pump. I may buy a bigger pool that is the appropriate size for the pump and filter next year.

I have some other questions about the timer that I'd like ask out of curiosity if you don't mind. Are there other timers that will run my pump other than the Intermatic T104? Does the timer have to specify for use on pool pumps or it has the same specifications as a pool timer? Can you bypass a timer and plug the pump directly to a GFCI outlet. It will be a few days before I can fix the timer. In the meantime, I will focus on the water quality.
Thank you for your time.

[PoolDoc]

Primarily, any pool timer has to be motor or inductive load rating; this will show up as a amps PLUS a horsepower (HP) rating.

[sjeffers01]

I decided to check the timer myself and removed the center screw that holds the time pointer and the time wheel. There was this taupe color light in texture grease and dirt on the gears and all around the on off switch and some on the tripper pins I put on the other day. I cleaned a lot of it but couldn't reach some areas. I put it back together and set the time. The pump stayed on for about an hour then it shut off and came back on after seven minutes. Then it went back to shutting off and on again but at seven to ten minute intervals. I think if I dismantle it and clean it thoroughly it might work like it should. If the grease is supposed to be on the gears then I probably need to replace the timer.

[PoolDoc]

Replace it!!

You're going to tear up a $400 pump, messing around with a $50 timer body.

[sjeffers01]

Will do. I will check out the one you suggested earlier. Thanks again.

[sjeffers01]

I bought the Intermatic T104 208-277 Volt Mechanical Switch from Amazon. It should arrive in two days. I also ordered 2 sets of on and off tripper pins. I forgot to mention that I can manually turn on and turn off the pump and the switch isn't loose, too easy or hard to push. I can hear the timer switch on and switch off by it self. I have to unplug it to stop the timer from turning on and off by itself at random. I have been keeping the pool clean from debris, vacuumed, and brush all sides of the pool. In the meantime, I will be working on getting the proper levels of chlorine and PH and whatever else I need to do to prevent problems. I will update this thread after I get the timer installed this Saturday.

[PoolDoc]

Thanks!

[sjeffers01]

The new Intermatic pool timer has been installed and works fine. I followed the instructions I found on You Tube on how to install three sets of tripper pins so the pump will run three hours a day. I can't thank you enough for helping me out.

[PoolDoc]

Great!

[sjeffers01]

After I replaced the pool timer I thought the problem with the pump turning on and off by itself was resolved. I should say assumed it was resolved. After installing the new timer Intermatic (T104) I checked to verify the pump turned on when it hit the first “on” tripper pin and went off when it hit the “off” tripper pin. I did the same thing with the second and third set of tripper pins and both went “on” and “off” on schedule. Then I changed one set of tripper pins to run the pump from 4 pm to 6 pm. I was in the pool when it turned on at 4:00 pm and after about ten minutes the pump shut off. Then a few minutes later pump turned back on. The pump ran for about five minutes and shut off itself again. I got out of the pool and checked the pool timer and the manual switch was in the “on” position. I realized the original problem was not fixed and the timer was doing its job. I did a search on the internet and discovered that the pump turns itself off when it overheats (thermal overload.) The possible reasons are the electrical supply connections are incorrect, low voltage because the gauge of the wires are incorrect, inadequate ventilation, or the motor is old because there is a short inside, usually across the windings. I ruled out ventilation so it is either the wiring or the motor. Should I check the voltage with my multi-meter to determine if the voltage is correct or just replace the motor? If I check the voltage can anyone provide instructions or can provide a website that does? I forgot to mention that the Pentair Clean and Clear Plus filter shows 10 psi when the pump is on. Is that normal?

[PoolDoc]

If you know how to do so, check the voltage while the pump is running.

OR, engage the multimeter with the pump OFF, and then have someone turn it ON while you are watching the voltage. It shouldn't drop more than 3% -- 4 volts at 120; 7 volts at 240.

It's harder to check for a short across the windings; you can check resistance, but unless you know the 'good' value, it may not tell you much.

Do you have an ammeter? (Amp-meter)

. . . I'm going to ask Mark to take a look; he understands electric motors better than I.

[mas985]

I doubt it is the winding's. Winding's are usually shorted or opened on failure so the motor will trip a break or won't run at all.

If the pump is turned on but after a few minutes shuts off on it's own, then it is likely the thermal limiter switch tripping. This is caused by overheating in the motor which in turn is usually caused by bad bearings in the motor or even a problem with the impeller. Under voltage and over voltage can cause the problem as well but that is pretty rare. If you are comfortable checking the motor voltage, you should probably do that first just to make sure.

Is the motor loud when running?

How old is the motor?

[sjeffers01]

I found instructions for testing a pool pump with a multi-meter at Inyo Pools website. I will test the pool pump this afternoon. Testing to check for a short across the windings sounds too complicated for me and way beyond my skill level. I don't have an amp-meter. If I have to replace my Pentair 3/4 HP Whisperflo single speed motor, can I buy a 3/4 two speed motor instead? Is the quality of an OEM motor equal to Pentair's replacement motors? I think the pool pump is at least a few years old. I have to see if there is a date on the pump and will update thread if its older.

[mas985]

Yes you can replace your current motor with a two speed. Is your pump the WF-3 or the WF-23?

Pentair does not make motors, they usually use a branded A.O.Smith now branded as Century motors on their pumps which are also sold aftermarket.

[PoolDoc]

The 2 speed motors are pretty expensive. Since you have a small pool, if your motor is shot, you might be better off getting a 2-speed above ground pump:
Hayward SP15922S Power-Flo Matrix 2-Speed (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00212NNU4/poolbooks/)


Here's a link for replacement motors:
http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-Motors--dsh--Replacement-cln-Multi-dsh-Speed/Categories.bok

[sjeffers01]

I agree that buying a new pump is better than paying for a new 2 sp motor. It costs more than a new pump to replace the motor because I would have to buy some other parts to install it. I checked out the Hayward SP15922S and it is 1 Hp. The Pentair Whisperflo pump I have is 3/4 HP and it is too big for my 8190 gal pool. Would a 1 HP be ok or should I look for a 3/4 HP 2 speed pump?

[mas985]

Actually, the Whisperflo is a larger pump than the Matrix. You can't always go by label HP when sizing a pump, you have to compare head curves for a true measure of a pump's power. For example, on typical AG pool setup, the Whisperflo will deliver about 53 GPM but the Matrix will deliver only 50 GPM.

[PoolDoc]

What he said.

You could use a smaller pump, but as far as I know, an above-ground 3/4 HP with 2 speeds is not available.

[sjeffers01]

You are correct about the 2 speed 3/4 HP for above ground pools but they are available for in-ground pools. I bought a used above ground pool that came with an in-ground Pentair Whisperflo 3/4 HP (WFE-3 single speed) pump.

[sjeffers01]

I looked at the wires coming from the pump and they are thinner than the wires that I used to supply power. I have a GFCI outlet and added a 15A 125V three pronged plug to supply power to the Intermatic Pool timer and pump. If you look at the first or second page of this post you can see a picture of the wiring for the Intermatic. The wires from the pump are blue, blue, and white. The blue wire has 12 AWG and the wires that supply the power to the timer are for 15 amps 125V and are thicker. Would the smaller wire coming from the pool pump cause the overheating problem?

[mas985]

Possibly if the voltage drop was significant. But if the wire size is at least 14 gauge, that is sufficient for that pump.

http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/WhisperFlo%20OM.pdf

[sjeffers01]

So if I understand how wire size works, the 12 AWG is okay because it is bigger than 14 AWG? The distance from pump to timer is about 6 ft. I haven't had a chance to test the terminals with a multi-meter but I don't think there is a problem with the voltage. I will visibly check the wiring on the pump to see if it is wired correctly. My handyman isn't available to help me, so I will have to do it myself.

[PoolDoc]

Would the smaller wire coming from the pool pump cause the overheating problem?

If those wires were large enough to operate the pump successfully in the past, they are probably still large enough now. If you want more specific info, you need to check actual wire gauge.

[sjeffers01]

I guess I was hoping for a simple solution to fix the over heating problem. I am going to run the pump until the new one arrives. I set the tripper pins on the timer to run early morning for 2 hours, late afternoon 1/2 hour, and for 2 hours at midnight. I go swimming in the late afternoon so I can shut the pump off if it gets too hot. The other tripper pins are set to run during the coolest periods. I hope the new pump runs as quiet as the Whisperflo. I may have a licensed pool technician check the wiring and the rest of the system. I have to review my options and decide the best way to go. Thank you for your assistance. If any forum subscribers have had the same problem of overheating that was not due to issues with the main breaker or GFCI, it would be interesting to see what was done to identify and fix the problem.

[mas985]

Have you inspected the impeller and diffuser? Any obstruction would cause the motor to overheat and trip the thermal sensor. Also, I don't think you ever answered my other question about pump noise. Is is screeching or whining?

[BigDave]

... I may have a licensed pool technician check the wiring ... Please have a licensed electrician with pool experience look at your wiring. Pool guys are not electricians. Please.

[Pappy]

Has it been verified that the pump is wired for 120v rather than240v?

[sjeffers01]

I did check it for obstruction and there wasn't anything, I am not sure about diffuser but I will check it. The pump is really quiet. No screeching or whining.

[PoolDoc]

@Pappy: pumps wired 120v but fed 240v can die fairly spectacularly . . . but they don't run for awhile and then shut off. I'm not sure I've seen a pump wired 240v and fed 120v, but I'm guessing it would just hum till it overheated.

[Pappy]

Years ago, when I did plant maintenance, I got a job at a place that had just fired a guy for sub-standard work. They had 240v chain hoists that the man had wired one leg direct, meaning one leg at the fuse box was run through the fuse and the other leg was TOTALLY unswitched. One of the supply cables got pinched and shorted the protected leg. The fuse blew, but the wire welded to the steel trusswork. The guy running the hoist had his back to the fireworks, and didn't hear anything because of the plant noise. The hoist slowed WAY down and fried after a few seconds. After that happened I got to looking at the wiring, and there was ALL kinds of stuff that he had done that way. I haven't done that kind of work in MANY years and motors have changed alot since the early 80's but it might be worth looking at.

[mas985]

In both the under-voltage and over-voltage case, an induction motor will draw excessive current so it is a matter of what fails first. Either the breaker will trip, which usually happens in most cases or the motor will heat up very quickly and trip the thermal limiter or the winding's will melt. In all cases, the motor will either not run at all or run for just a few seconds before failing. But it won't run for minutes and it won't pump water.

http://www.motorsanddrives.com/cowern/motorterms12.html

[Pappy]

Thanks for the info.

@Mark, your signature says you have a .5hp 2 speed pump. What make/model is it? Or did you put it together from individual components?

[mas985]

I put it together with a 1/2 HP Northstar wet end and a 2 speed motor.

[sjeffers01]

Sorry about delayed response. I was out of town. I checked the pump and it is wired for 120V. The pump still works. It takes about 1/2 HR. before it gets hot enough to shut off when it runs during the early morning hours. I will have an electrician look instead of a pool guy but I really don't think the wiring is the problem. I took a picture of the pump wiring.

[sjeffers01]

I forgot to correct the 120V to 115V. I found the manufacturer date for the pump. It is 06/18/2005. I wish I found out sooner. This pump's 9th birthday is getting close and the overheating problem is likely due to its age. I might as well use it until it quits. The suction and expulsion are really strong and it keeps my pool pretty clean. I am having a Home Performance review next week and that could include a recommendation on replacing my pool pump. I would get a rebate or low interest financing through SMUD. I will close this thread since we now know the Intermatic Timer was working correctly and the pump is old and needs to be replaced with an energy efficient dual speed pump. To those of you who responded, thank you for taking the time to help me out. I have learned a lot and am now too scared to mess with the electrical stuff. You probably saved my life.