Getting ready to open 40k gal pool AKA "the Swamp"

[KJohnston]

Hi! I'm new and so glad to have found this forum! We are getting ready to open our pool, it has no cover we just plugged the pipes and let it sit all winter. It is very brown/green with more dirt than leaves on the bottom. We have a SWCG but the last few years it has not been working so we have just been using bleach. Last year we had a terrible time with algae but no one told me to shock it and keep it there, so glad to have read that here! So, my question is, where do I start? Obviously we'll take the plugs out, fill it up to normal then turn it on. I have just purchased the Taylor k-2006 kit and 16 boxes of borax (just to be ready!). Our pool is concrete/plaster it is free form and approx. 40,000 gal. We have a Sta-Rite filter and a Hayward pump. How much LC am I going to need to start it up? Will I need to test first to see if we have any CYA? I prefer the LC because we got some calcium spots with the other. I finally have hope that we can get rid of the algae once and for all with the help of this forum.

[Watermom]

Clean out as much of the debris as you can. Get the equipment up and running and test the water. Post your results and someone here will try and help. Good decision to order the kit! It will make your clean-up a lot easier!

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

[KJohnston]

I haven't received my test kit yet. I have been hearing this strange noise for the past week or so, last night I went out to see what it was and discovered we have frogs in our pool! Today I added some water and started to clean out slimey disgusting leaves, possible frog eggs and I don't know what else that was floating in the water. I can see maybe a foot in the water, it is bad. I need to add more water tomorrow before I can think about turning it on but is that still my plan, to turn it on and test? It has never been this bad before but I guess I have seen bleach perform miracles! I may call around and see if I can find someone with a pump to clean out the bottom so it doesn't have to go through the filter. I have a cartridge filter and can't pump to waste. We would be cleaning the cartridges every 5 minutes!

[Watermom]

Try and scoop out as much as you can manually. And if was my pool, I'd do it quick before you have tadpoles! That would be a pain to try and fish them out! :eek:

Good luck!

[KJohnston]

I am adding more water right now. I have removed all of the floating debris but I can't see the bottom. I'm sure it's nasty, should I just blindly dig around down there before I turn it on? Should I dump a bunch of bleach in and manually stir to clear a bit and possibly see the bottom before turning on? Everything is so slimy, I don't know why it's so bad this year!

[Watermom]

Try and just net out what you can first. When you get out as much as you can, go ahead and turn on equipment and add bleach.

[KJohnston]

Ok, I'll get out as much as I can then turn on and test, UPS shows I will get it by end of the day tomorrow. Then you'll tell me how much bleach, right? I am going to buy a lot today so I'll be ready!

[Watermom]

Yes, someone here can help you get started especially after you can get some good water testing numbers. Take some pictures now so you'll have the before and after. You won't believe what bleach will do!

[KJohnston]

After doing a lot of reading here I'm worried about how much bleach I will need to clean my swamp and all of that dirt and stuff going through the filter. I'm afraid we'll be cleaning the filter every 30 minutes! My husband says lets drain it and start over. Which would be more cost effective? Are we in an area where draining is a possibility? And of course, I just filled it full today! Have not turned it on yet, I am still waiting for the test kit. Can you tell I have read too much and scared myself? Should I just wait to decide anything until I can test? I am just thinking about last season and how I couldn't keep chlorine in the pool and what if the cya has turned to ammonia, the what ifs are getting to me!

[KJohnston]

Alright, I cleaned out as much as I could without being able to see. I turned everything on and discovered that my pressure gauge is busted, so I will get one tomorrow. I tested the water and heres what I got:
TC: 0
pH: more than 8, color was a very bright pink/fuschia
TA: 70
CH: 230
CYA: 0, black dot never disappeared, the water was just a tiny bit cloudy

So, I am going to add 12 gal. of 10% bleach, then I will check it in 4-6 hours? add more if its below what? 30 ppm is what I will go by until I hear from you but maybe I don't need it so high since I have no CYA? Well, I'll try to keep it at 30 for now only because its a bad looking swamp out there. The frogs are wondering whats going on. Should I plan on cleaning the filters tomorrow or get the gauge first so I can see the psi? I know they will be bad!

[KJohnston]

4 hours later test shows
FC: 21
CC: 1.5
I will add 4 more jugs of 10% bleach now, it will probably go down quick when the sun comes up since it went down a lot in the dark! But I am going to bed and will check it when I get up. Should I get some dichlor to use instead of bleach to raise my CYA? My bleach is 128 oz jugs. In the dark with a flash light shining in the pool, I can tell the water has changed already. Its not so dark green! I can't wait to see it later today! Just let me know what ppm I want to hold the chlorine. Thank you!!

[Watermom]

Take a look at the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below. It gives the correlation between CYA and needed chlorine levels. With a concrete pool, it isn't so critical that you don't take the chlorine level too high as it is with a vinyl pool. Bleach or dichlor is up to you. Both will clean up the pool. With dichlor, you'll have to keep an eye on your CYA after a bit so it doesn't get too high. If you do decide to use dichlor, you have to be careful what you buy. If you have access to a Sams Club, you can get some there that is ok to use. You have to be wary of most other local sources of dichlor, since it's become common to sell 'diluted dichlor' at 1/2 strength but full price. Links below.


PoolBrand granular dichlor 50lbs (http://www.samsclub.com/prod4340004.ip) @ Sams Club => ~$2.20/lb (May 2014 in Chattanooga)
PoolBrand dichlor bagged shock 24lbs (http://www.samsclub.com/108822.ip) @ Sams Club => ~$2.50/lb (May 2014 in Chattanooga)

Kem-Tek dichlor 22 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZA/scouscho-20) @ Amazon => ~$3.50/lb (May 2014)
Kem-Tek dichlor 12 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEHZ0/scouscho-20) @ Amazon => ~$4.10/lb (May 2014)
Kem-Tek dichlor 5 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0015UIOWK/scouscho-20) @ Amazon => ~$5.00/lb (May 2014)
Kem-Tek dichlor 2 lbs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030BEI40/scouscho-20) @ Amazon => ~$9.00/lb (May 2014)

Keep in mind that Amazon products normally ship free; and that in many parts of the country, you will not have to pay sales tax. Shipping + tax can increase the cost from other suppliers by 15 - 40%, so compare delivered cost, not nominal price.

[KJohnston]

Its blue! Super cloudy but blue! So should I keep it at 30 ppm? Today its down to 2.5 so I think I will clean the filters and then add 10 more jugs. I will order some dichlor from amazon. Thanks so much!
Edited to add: I just bought the 12 lb dichlor from amazon. I should get it Saturday, If I just add all 12 lbs at once then that should raise the cya a little. Then just keep using bleach after that. Does that sound ok?
Also, do I need to lower ph now, or will the dichlor help with that? I have some muriatic acid if I need to use that. Or do I just work on getting the pool clear, then worry about the ph?

[Watermom]

Dichlor will push your pH down but you need to test the pH when the chlorine level is not high to get an accurate reading. High chlorine levels cause the pH test to read falsely high.

[KJohnston]

I checked the pH when the chlorine was zero. It was always high last year too. I am going to Walmart to get more bleach tonight. I added 11 more jugs this afternoon. I've been shooting for the 30 ppm because it is so gross but do you think I can go lower until I add the CYA anyway? I am almost afraid to see what the bottom looks like because we brush, then use the leaf rake to collect the slimy mess that comes up and I just know there is probably a lot of algae under that stuff.

[Watermom]

Yes, with no CYA, your shock level doesn't need to be so high.

[KJohnston]

The pool is still cloudy but clearing up. I have been vacuuming a lot and I have what may be white mold. At first I thought I had killed a bunch of frogs because it kind of looked like frog skin (very disgusting!), it was slimy snotty some was green some more white/pinkish. I have been keeping the chlorine 20-30 ppm but I swear this slimy stuff is just multiplying! So do I need to add anything else for that or just keep bleaching? Also, I have 32 boxes of borax. I was going to get the pool clear then add the borax but should I go ahead and add it now to get some borates in there?

[Watermom]

For now, just keep the chlorine high and keep the pump running. I would worry about getting the pool cleared first before adding the borates. I'll ask Ben to take a look at this thread and see if he has any other suggestions for you.

[PoolDoc]

The "slimy stuff" may be the oxidized remnants of goo and leaves left in your pool.

Have you ever brushed and vacuumed the pool?

1. Do not add the borax yet. Do keep the chlorine up.

2. Brush the ENTIRE pool. Everything. Even if it doesn't seem to need it. Even if you can't see it perfectly.

3. Wait a day, and then vacuum the entire pool.

4. Tell me what kind -- make / model / size -- of filter you have. Odds are, you'll need a new cartridge.

5. Don't get unrealistic expectations: you chlorinated on the 15th; today's the 19th and you are showing evidence of physical debris left in the pool. Don't expect clear water before the 26th; don't expect crystal clear water before the 1st -- and not at all if your cartridge needs replacing.

6. Next time you clean your cartridge (right after you vacuum!), take pictures and send them to poolforum@gmail.com That way I can do more than guess about whether it needs to be replaced. Notice the brand, if you can: if it's not Sta-Right, Unicel, or Filbur . . . it needs to be replaced.

[KJohnston]

We have been brushing and scooping out goo since I put the chlorine in the first time. Yesterday was the first time to vacuum. I am pretty sure I need new cartridges, I've already priced some and will order soon. Should I get them in there quick or wait til the goo is gone before putting the new ones in? My filter is Sta-Rite System 3, S7M120, it uses the 100 square foot and the 200 square foot cartridges. My pump is Hayward Northstar 2.5 hp. I have replaced the t-ring and have ordered new drain plugs for the pump and a new o-ring for the tank of the filter and a drain plug for it too. Thank you so much for helping me!! I know you all can help me get my pool clean and clear!
Edited to add: I've bee vacuuming with the leaf vacuum thing so it hasn't been going through the filter. Next time I vacuum I'm going to try putting some panty hose under the bag to see if that will catch more dirt. We have a dirt road right behind our backyard(wasn't there when the pool went in!) and now our pool gets a lot of dirt in it, yay
I'll take pics and send them as soon as I clean the filter.

[KJohnston]

I worked on the pool all afternoon, I scooped lots more leaves and grossness out then cleaned the filter then brushed the whole pool. I took pics and will send them but I know you will say I need new ones! After all of that I checked the water and got FC: 12.5, CC: 0.5, pH: 7.2

[Watermom]

See what happens to your chlorine readings overnight. If you can test within an hour of sunrise before the sun is really on the pool too much and let us know what you get, it will be helpful.

[PoolDoc]

I assume you pics are the ones from the iPad? If so, I need bigger pics to be sure, but I believe that your cartridges are shot. Notice how the pleats are clumped together? That turns 10 pleats into 1; your EFFECTIVE filter square footage may be 1/5 of the original value!

Do NOT put the new cartridges in, till the goo is gone. (Cloudy is OK, goo-ey is not.)

The System3 cartridge filter is very badly designed in my opinion. They can work very well in arid areas with year-round pool operation -- no leaves, no thunderstorm debris, and no swamps. But if you let them get dirty, the force of the water trying to push through the filters will collapse the pleats as yours has done.

This is VERY common with System3 cartridges, so:

1. Be careful to keep the flow rate BELOW the maximum.
2. NEVER let the pressure increase more than 5 psi above the 'clean' pressure.
3. Always vacuum sludge with your OLD cartridges.

A single episode of a 10 or 15 psi filter pressure increase can ruin $400+ worth of cartridges.

Some folks here, who have them in S. Calif or Arizona love them. I utterly despise the things; I think they are hands down the WORST general use filter on the market. I suppose they'd be OK if they were ONLY sold in markets where they could work well, and with adequate warnings about correct usage.

[KJohnston]

Yes those were my ipad pics, I don't know how to make them bigger but yes, I agree that the cartridges are not good anymore. We replaced them in 2011, so they are 3 years old and have been through a few swamps. Our PB picked the equipment and then kind of left us to figure it out on our own, he wouldn't answer his phone for questions. So the first year, 2007, I pretty much had to figure it all out on my own. Some things I figured out better than others! We are going to price covers for the fall, in hopes that we could open next year to a clean pool. After I posted my last message I went out and added 4 more jugs of walmart bleach, so the 8.25%. I will test again before the sun comes up and report back. Thanks for your help!

[KJohnston]

Ok, so at 8:30 pm I added those 4 jugs to raise the FC to 21(per pool calculator). So now at 5:15 am I checked and the FC is 20.5 and CC is 0.5. Things are looking better! I plan to vacuum, clean the cartridges and brush again this afternoon. Let me know if I need to do something different. Thanks again!

[Watermom]

Good deal. Sounds like you are making significant progress with your swamp....... I mean pool! ;)

[KJohnston]

Pool is looking better, we are getting all the dirt vacuumed up and finding some algae under it but at least it's clear enough to see the algae now! So, I will keep the bleach up high until the algae is gone and the bleach holds overnight. We were in the pool today and I noticed that the bottom and sides of the pool were very rough. This also happened last year and my 3 year old had to wear swim shoes because the pool tore up his little toes. So what do I do to make it smooth again? I know you all can help me with that, last year I was overwhelmed with just trying to keep the water clear. I couldn't worry about fixing the calcium deposits or what ever it is that is sooo rough. It's terrible to have people, mostly kids, come over to swim and they leave with scratched up feet and hurting toes!

[PoolDoc]

Rough plaster has no quick or cheap fix.

Get the pool cleaned up, and get pictures, and we can help you look at options.

[KJohnston]

I went out today and the water is really clear! I vacuumed the dirt that settled from yesterday and it looked really good. I cleaned the filter after vacuuming and then it rained. There were still a few spots but I couldn't tell for sure if its algae or stains. There were a few pennies and nickels in there from last year and the nickels were all rusted so they could have left stains, I guess. I didn't get in the pool today, it wasn't warm enough, so I don't know if those spots were slick or not but they wouldn't brush off. I haven't seen anymore slimy snotty stuff so that's good! I got some of the dichlor from Sam's (I found out my sister is a member!), so I think I will put that in tomorrow evening. Should I wait to clean the filter for a few days after adding it, or does that stuff dissolve quick? I should get my new cartridges on the 28th. I got my youngest son some new swim shoes since you said the roughness won't be easy to get rid of. It doesn't bother the older kids as much, I guess their skin is tougher! Let me know what I can try or start doing to get rid of it. I'm glad that is my only(at the moment!) major problem and that the pool is clear! The kreepy krauly hose had that rough build up on it and it has come off of it now that its been in all that bleach for several days. I wish it was that easy to get it off the pool walls! Thank you again for all the help you all provide! It is very much appreciated!!

[PoolDoc]

1. Dichlor dissolved very quickly; just dump it in your deep end and keep people out for 15 minutes or so. (If they get in sooner, and swim through the 'hot spot', it won't hurt them but might sting their eyes and bleach their swimsuit.)

2. If the roughness is ON the plaster, you can do something about it. If it's IN the plaster -- that is, if the plaster itself is pitted and rough -- fixing requires major repairs.

[KJohnston]

I'm pretty sure it is on the plaster. In some spots I can scrub it off but others it won't budge. The roughness started last year when we opened, it was there. Is there anyway I can take bigger pics with the ipad? I have a camera but I need to get a new sd card, so I can do that too but it would be easier to just take them with the ipad!

[PoolDoc]

The problem with the iPad is not the size of the pic, but the size of the pic it will email! If you send the pic from "camera roll", using the little icon at the bottom left, you have an option to send the picture full size. This can be done from email too, but you have to monkey around with the BCC: line in the email address to expose the size option.

(This is what I HATE about Apple products -- it's rather complicated to do anything Apple didn't think you really ought to want to do -- like save a web page!)

[KJohnston]

Ok, I'll see if I can figure out the picture thing. I hope I can take some pics tomorrow, it has been rainy all day today. I'll send some as soon as I can.

[KJohnston]

I sent some pics, finally! So my most recent tests show FC: 16.5 CC: 0 pH: 7.2 TA: 80 CH: 310 CYA: 40. The last few days I have found random spots of algae. They are Very small and I can brush it off easily. So do I need to keep the FC up even though it holds overnight? I didn't know if you could see the roughness very well in my pics but I thought I'd see if you could tell what it is.

[Watermom]

We usually advise to keep the chlorine high for one additional day and then let it drift down and keep it in the proper range based on the Best Guess Chlorine CHART.

[FormerBromineUser]

How has your pool season been?

[KJohnston]

It has been great! Clear all summer, only adding bleach and muriatic acid(when pH gets high). It has been wonderful!

[FormerBromineUser]

That's excellent! All those years of fighting algae... And opening with frogs? Oh my! I know the K2006 and all the help from the great moderators here at the Pool Forum have truly made you feel confident and in charge of your pool. I know I am in debt to this forum and am so very grateful. Good job on hanging in there and believing! Enjoy the rest of your season! Btw, did you ever resolve the roughness of the pool surface?

[CarlD]

Great story!

I've always said there's nothing magical or mystical in pool care. Just have to clear away the "magic" and "mysticism" pool chem companies, and pool stores dish out.