New Heater

[mahopool]

Just got the bad news that my burner trays are rotted and its 900+ to fix. Might be time to replace my 8 yr old Raypak. Any suggestions for a new top of the line propane gas heater for my 50x20 pool?

Thanks

[PoolDoc]

Wow, an easy one today!

On many equipment issues, there's a fair bit of disagreement, but the consensus that the Hayward Universal is currently the best available AND one of the more economical. Here you go:

Hayward Universal heater (http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-Ground-Pool-Heaters-Universal-H-Series-Low-NOx_10201_10551_14002_-1_14003__I.htm) @ hayward-pool

Propane models @ Amazon:
Hayward H400FDP Universal H-Series Low Nox 400,000-BTU Propane Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00212PU9Q/poolbooks/)
Hayward H350FDP Universal H-Series Low Nox 350,000-BTU Propane Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00212I32M/poolbooks/)
Hayward H300FDP Universal H-Series Low Nox 300,000-BTU Propane Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002EL412G/poolbooks/)
Hayward H250FDP Universal H-Series Low Nox 250,000-BTU Propane Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00212M7ZG/poolbooks/)
Hayward H200FDP Universal H-Series Low Nox 200,000-BTU Propane Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002EL411C/poolbooks/)
Hayward H150FDP Universal H-Series Low Nox 150,000-BTU Propane Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002EL410I/poolbooks/)

[PoolDoc]

Just checked all the reviews at Amazon --- and there are some bad ones -- to see what's up. I'm going to append these notes:

1. These heaters are for in-ground pools ONLY. It would be possible to use them on AG pools, but it would be tricky and may void the warranty (I haven't checked).

2. ALL heaters will be destroyed by low pH (< 7.0) or excessive salt (> 5,000 ppm). If you get the heater, you *NEED* to learn the BBB method; you *NEED* the K2006, and you *NEED* an accurate salt test. If you make a warranty claim on the heater, Hayward (or any other maker) WILL inspect for chemical damage, and WILL repudiate the warranty if they find it.

3. Document your installation (photos); make gas connections properly; keep all purchase papers securely.

4. Do NOT order these heaters online, until you are READY to install. Amazon has a 30-day return window. It's easier to return to Amazon, than to get mfg warranty service. Read the manual (of this or ANY heater you buy) BEFORE purchasing. Make SURE you are ready, before you buy. It makes no difference to Amazon whether the 30 days gets used up while the heater is sitting in the garage, or while it's working hard.

5. The electronics are EXPENSIVE, on all heaters. Consider getting surge protection on the power supply.

6. It sounds like the weather protection on the electronics may be imperfect. I'd recommend testing with a water hose and sprayer, to simulate rain, and then opening the heater to make sure the electronics are staying dry. If not, consider making some sort of SS sheet shield to protect them. I'm going to look at the ones I have installed this week, to see how that could be done.

7. Install them properly; no short cuts; no 'it's good enough'; these heaters mix water, explosive gases, and electricity: DO IT RIGHT. Read the manual for info on how.

8. On products like these, manufacturers deal with consumers (and to a lesser extent, pool guys) who make installation errors, damage the product, and then try to make warranty claims. So . . . (a) do it right, without errors; (b) don't be offended if Hayward expects you to PROVE you did it right: it's the price honest people pay for sharing the planet with dishonest people, and finally, (c) if YOU screw up, take like a man, and don't try to rip off Hayward or Amazon.

9. If you're unsure about doing it right, HIRE IT DONE. But . . . remember, if YOU buy the equipment (at a discount) equipment warranty problems are YOUR problem, not the installers. If you want the installer to 'stand behind' the heater, plan on paying your installer maybe $500 MORE than the Amazon prices for the heaters PLUS the cost of installation.

[mahopool]

Thanks for your response. The gas Co. wanted $3000 to replace my raypak, or $900 to replace the burner tray. Im not a diy kind of guy, so I would definitely hire a pool guy to install. I'm not sure why Heyward is so clearly better than the rest. where would I find a good analysis of this?

Thanks

[PoolDoc]

Considering that you can get a new Hayward heater installed for $2,000 - $2,500, the gas company's prices is excessive.

Do you mean burner tray, or heat exchanger? $900 is not necessarily out of line for the heat exchanger, but it is for a burner tray. I think you need to see if you can have a knowledgeable local pool guy take a look. Spending $100 to have some give you more reliable hands-on info would be worthwhile, under the circumstances, I think.

The consensus that the Hayward is better, is from here, and it's an informal rather than formal thing. One key point is that only the Hayward offers salt compatibility on their standard heater. Another is that Pentair has drastically cut its warranty on direct-to-consumer sales.

[lstinthot]

Would you recommend going with a heat pump over the propane heater if you are changing the heater or putting a new heater in? Our heater is not starting, we have an older pentair 400 something. I cut the pipes to it for now. It started 2 years ago just to test it out. Did not want the cost of the propane bill so we never used it.

[bottomcat]

@PoolDoc: Any recommendations on a NG heater for 24' round? I'm looking at between 150,000 and 250,000 BTU and I am using chlorine. Thanks!

[PoolDoc]

Just posted this list in another thread.

The Hayward Universal is the Support Team consensus:
Natural gas models:
Hayward H300FDN Universal H-Series Low Nox 300,000-BTU Natural Gas Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002EL4126/poolbooks/)
Hayward H250FDN Universal H-Series Low Nox 250,000-BTU Natural Gas Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002EL411M/poolbooks/)
Hayward H200FDN Universal H-Series Low Nox 200,000-BTU Natural Gas Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002EL4112/poolbooks/)
Hayward H150FDN Universal H-Series Low Nox 150,000-BTU Natural Gas Pool Heater (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002EL40ZO/poolbooks/)


It's not that we think the other heaters are bad (except for the StaRite!), but the Hayward has a combination of features and pretty good reliability that put it on top. The Pentair heaters are out -- unless your contractor buys it -- because Pentair has slashed the warranty on consumer purchases.