New to BBB

[TexasGolfer]

Hi gang! I just discovered the BBB method a little over a week ago. I had mostly ignored my pool over the winter to save on chemicals and all the hard work of the pool store method. As soon as the weather warmed up a bit - BAM! Green Pool! After a nine day battle, and about 25 or so jugs of bleach, and 14 cleanings of my filter cartridges, pool is mostly clear of algae. So my opening question is, how quickly do I allow the chlorine level to drop from shock level to maintenance level? It's now clear enough to see the bottom, and color has changed from green to aqua blue, but it's still a bit cloudy.

As soon as I have access to my profile, I will add a signature with all my pool details. Not sure how much you need to answer this question, but my pool is inground, gunite, and about 12,300 gallons as best as I can estimate.

Thanks!

[Watermom]

You want to keep your chlorine at shock level until you can pass the 'overnight test.' Test your chlorine in the evening after the sun is off the pool. Then, test it again in the morning within an hour or so of sunup. If you have lost more than 1ppm of chlorine, then you are still fighting something in the water and need to continue to keep your chlorine high. Continue to do so until you don't lose more than 1ppm overnight and also have no greater than 0.5ppm of CC. While you are trying to clear the cloudiness, you'll want to run your pump 24/7 and clean your filter as needed.

After I wrote this, I realized I should have asked you what kind of test kit you are using. If you have not already done so, I would recommend you buy a Taylor K2006 or 2006C (better buy). You can get it through the test kit link in my signature below.

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

[TexasGolfer]

Thanks! Yes I have the K-2006. Here are my test numbers from 5:15 tonight. (about an hour ago)

FC: 7.5
CC: 0.5
pH: 7.2
TA: 100
CH: 325
CYA: Less than 30. That's as low as the test kit goes. It was right at 30 to 35 when I did the CYA test a few days ago.

I'm going to add a gallon of bleach right now, which should take me up around 14. I'll give it an hour to circulate, then test FC again for a final number for the day.

[Watermom]

Don't test CYA too often or you'll run out of reagent. After you get this cleared up, you'll probably want to bump your CYA up to around 50 or so. Also, keep an eye on the pH. Don't want it to drop any lower. If it does, add a little Borax to bring it up. Report back your results from overnight.

[TexasGolfer]

Thanks. Yeah, I figured out pretty quick that some of the chemicals would run out pretty quickly with the amount of testing I was going to be doing. I ordered a 16 oz bottle of R-0013, a 2 oz bottle of R-0871 and an extra 10 g vial of R-0870.

[TexasGolfer]

Overnight drop was 3ppm from 13.5 to 10.5. Appearance this morning was noticeably clearer and bluer than yesterday - almost perfect. Also there was no rise in preasure at the filters. Hooray!!! First time it's gone more than 8 hours after a cleaning without rising. I went ahead and added about 80 oz of chlorine to bump FC back up to around 15. Was that enough? Too much?

[Watermom]

Adding 80 oz of 8% bleach would have added approximately 16.3 ppm of chlorine to your 10.5 that you already had. Too high, especially in a pool with low CYA. Take a look at the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature below. It is a guide for how high you want your chlorine to be for various levels of CYA. Also, there is a bleach calculator that you might find helpful. (It actually has more than just the bleach calculator part if you use the drop down menu from the upper left corner.) You can find it in a stickied thread near the top of the Forum Q & A section.

By the way, once you do get to the point where you lose no more than 1ppm of chlorine overnight and also have a CC reading no higher than 0.5, keep the high chlorine for one additional day for some added insurance before letting the chlorine drift down and then keep it in the range shown in the Best Guess chart.

Hope this helps.

EDIT -- Just went back and noticed that you have a gunite pool so the higher chlorine level won't hurt anything. If it were vinyl, you wouldn't want to go that high, though.

[PoolDoc]

. . . membership updated.

[TexasGolfer]

I'm confused about the chlorine additions. I had been using a calculator at another website that seemed to be working well. It told me to add 83 oz of 8.25% bleach to get from 10.5 to 15. So I just plugged my numbers into your calculator and got 86 oz. Please show me how you calculated that 80 oz would raise my level by 16.3. Also, I see I have full access now, so I will go enter all my pool details into a signature. But just to make sure we're on the same page, my pool size is 12,300 gallons. Maybe you used liters?

[TexasGolfer]

Hmmmm... still unable to edit my profile.

[Watermom]

Nah, I didn't use liters but I do not know what I plugged in to the calculator to get that result! Duh. Must've still been asleep. Sorry 'bout that!

To Edit your signature ---- click on that tab in my signature below.

EDIT -- i realized what I did wrong. 80 oz. would be 2.5 of the 3-quart jugs of bleach. My brain apparently was not yet switched on this morning and I accidentally plugged in 2.5 gallons and 8% instead of 8.25! :p Mystery solved!

[TexasGolfer]

Okay, got the sig edited. Please let me know if there is any additional info needed, or any questions about what I put in there. Fingers crossed, but I think the algae problem will be under control in a day or two.

So next issue for me is CYA. That little test is a pain. It's my understanding that 3" tablets will add stabilizer. That is what I have always used for chlorination, prior to discovering BBB. I probably still have 20-30 lbs left over from last season. Can I use these to up my CYA level, once I'm completely finished with the algae battle? Or do you recommend something else?

[Watermom]

Trichlor tabs are stabilized meaning that they have CYA in them. For every 10ppm of chlorine they add, they will also add 6ppm of CYA. So, you can use the tabs for awhile and then when you get your CYA where you want it, discontinue them and switch to a non-stabilized form of chlorine like bleach. BUT....... Make sure that your tabs have NO copper in them! You don't want copper in your pool! Contrary to popular belief, it is copper and not chlorine that stains pool surfaces and turns light-colored hair green!

[TexasGolfer]

Thanks. I will check the label to see what's in there when I get home tonight. I think the ones I have now came from Sam's Club.

[TexasGolfer]

The pucks I have are 99% trichlor. The label also states 90% available chlorine, and there is no mention of copper.

There is a lot of info on here regarding chlorine and most of the other chemicals, but I'm having trouble finding posts and articles that discuss CYA. I would be most appreciative if you could point me to a few. I really have read a lot and looked pretty hard, but I probably just missed them. Specifically, I am trying to determine how much impact each of these pucks will have on the CYA level and the pH of my pool.

My FC dropped 2ppm overnight, so better than Sunday night but not quite fully done fighting algae. Yesterday was the warmest day of the year so far in Houston - it touched 90 - so chlorine level was all the way down to 4.5 by the time I got home from work around 7 PM. Since I am gone for so long during the day, and because my CYA is low, I went ahead and put my floater in the water this morning along with the morning addition of bleach needed to push FC back up to 12. So I would like to calculate what impact this will have. I will also test my pH tonight and begin moving it back up to the 7.4-7.5 range.

[PoolDoc]

For each ppm of chlorine added with dichlor or trichlor, you'll add nearly a ppm of stabilizer. With trichlor it's a bit less, with dichlor a bit more.

Regarding the relationship between chlorine and CYA, read the "Best Guess" page linked in my signature.

[TexasGolfer]

Thank you, I've read through that post numerous times, and many others, but I'm not seeing what I am looking for. Also, I saw where Watermom indicated the 10 to 6 relationship of chlorine to CYA in trichlor. I think what I am not making clear is that I'm trying to estimate what the impact will be before I put the pucks in, to determine how many to start with. For example, with bleach we have the calculators that tell me if my pool is a certain size, I need to put in a certain number of oz of bleach to raise my FC level 1 ppm. So my question is, how can I estimate the rise in FC and CYA from one puck of trichlor? Also the drop in pH?

I know that it takes time for these pucks to dissolve, and once they have done so, the CYA is already in the pool, and difficult to remove. I've also read that it may take several days after it's put in to register, which has me worried that even if I take them out, the level could keep rising. I want to sneak up on the desired level, and not have to worry about shooting way past it. So if one puck has the potential to raise my CYA by 10 ppm, then I'll just put in one at a time, and then test several times after it's dissolved. But if one puck is only likely to raise CYA by 1 ppm, then I'll put in 5 or 6 at a time, and not be so worried about shooting way past my goal.

[TexasGolfer]

Okay, a more thorough Google search turned up this thread which has the math I was looking for:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/7248-how-much-CYA-will-a-50lbs-of-tri-clor-add

Converting for my pool volume, looks like one 8 oz puck will increase my CYA by 2.7, so the four I have in my floater right now should be about right to start with. I'll pull it out at night for the purposes of doing my overnight FC drop test until I'm completely done fighting algae.

[JimK]

......I've also read that it may take several days after it's put in to register, which has me worried that even if I take them out, the level could keep rising......

I don't think this is true. Once it has dissolved it should be measurable and won't keep rising, unless you add more. I think where the confusion may be is that when adding stabilizer granules separately (those who use unstabilized sources of chlorine need to add stabilizer separately) it takes time for those granules to dissolve, and so the stabilizer level will rise as the granules dissolve. Personally, I find I get a good stabilizer reading about 24hrs or so after adding stabilizer granules directly in the skimmer and running the pump the whole time (the granules get caught in the filter where they then dissolve).

So measure after the pucks dissolve to see if you need to keep adding stabilizer.

Certainly someone here will correct me if I'm wrong.

[CarlD]

No, I actually think JimK is right and it's a subtlety. CYA granules take a very long time to dissolve but Trichlor fundamentally contains CYA so as it's releasing chlorine, it has to be releasing CYA, too, and acid.

[BigDave]

FWIW, dichlor (if you can find it pure) adds 9 ppm CYA for every 10 ppm FC and, unlike trichlor pucks, dissolves very quickly. One gotcha when starting new water is the sun will strip the FC quite quickly until the CYA has built up.

[TexasGolfer]

Cool! That makes sense. Thanks guys.

[TexasGolfer]

Thanks to you good folks here, the pool appears to be in great shape. Last time I added bleach was Wed night. I'm using triclor pucks to try to increase my CYA, but I can't get it above 30 yet. After adding nothing but triclor, here are my numbers this morning:

FC: 7.5
CC: 0.5
pH: 7.4
TA: 100
CH: 325
CYA: 30

Almost identical to what I posted on the 27th. I should note that I turned the pump off for about 8 hours last night for the first time in two weeks. It kicked back on about 2 hours before I tested.

So my question today is, should I just keep going with the triclor pucks, or use something else to up the CYA without raising the FC? I assume that 7.5 FC is too high for the long term.

Thanks!

[Watermom]

You can keep using pucks if you want til you get your CYA where you want it. Just keep an eye on your pH. Trichlor is very acidic. A chlorine reading of 7.5 won't last too long in the Texas heat in a pool with low CYA so its not a worry. Besides, you have a gunite pool and higher chlorine levels are not a problem as they could be in a liner pool.

Did you take a look at the Best Guess Chlorine Chart in my signature yet?

[TexasGolfer]

Yes, I've looked at the chart, and read everything I can find on the Pool Solutions site and here on the forum. Don't I want to get the CYA up to at least 50 pretty quickly so that I don't lose all the FC during those hot sunny days? It seems like with my low CYA level that I'm going to just keep dumping in bleach or using a lot of the pucks just to keep up with the daytime losses. Won't I use less chlorine in the long run if I have a higher CYA level? Not to mention the constant testing and adding chlorine? I want to get to the position where I don't have to test every single day.

What is the position here on adding straight cyanuric acid to my pool? And what is the proper dosage and method of adding it?

[Watermom]

Having a higher CYA does allow you to go longer between testing and adding doses of bleach. There are several here on the forum who deliberately run a higher CYA pool for this very reason.

You can definitely add straight CYA to your pool. I usually do so myself. In a pool your size, each pound of granular CYA will increase your level by about 10ppm. There are several ways to add it. One way is to just pour it slowly into the skimmer while the pump is running and then keep your pump running about 4 or 5 days after you add it to let it dissolve in your filter. But, with a cartridge filter, that might not be the best way. You might just want to put it in an old sock and hang it in front of your return jet. Every once in awhile, give the sock a squeeze to help it dissolve faster. That is probably the best way for you to add it. (The directions on some containers actually tell you to just broadcast it across the pool, but don't do that.)

[TexasGolfer]

Oooops! I did some searching while I was waiting for a reply and several other threads said to just put it in the skimmer, so I already added about a pound and a half. I didn't see any warnings about cartridge filter systems. What will it do to my cartridges??? Do I need to shut down and clean them off immediately?

[Watermom]

Probably nothing but let me ask Ben about it. Sit tight.

[PoolDoc]

It won't hurt your cartridges . . . but do NOT add chlorine, especially cal hypo, to the skimmer for at least a week. Longer, if you're pump is on a timer.

[TexasGolfer]

Okay, I don't ever put chlorine in the skimmer. I currently have trichlor tabs in the auto chlorinator, and also in a floater in the pool. The floater does tend to congregate right at the skimmer opening. Is that okay?

[PoolDoc]

That's fine.

[TexasGolfer]

So is there something about concentrated chlorine coming into contact with CYA that can be a problem? Are we trying to avoid some type of reaction?

[PoolDoc]

You could say that -- it's possible to make a filter sound like a giant popcorn popper, and to end up with pinholes in your cartridge.

I tend to shy away from describing some of the more 'active' reactions, since as soon as I do someone's going to run out and try it, and possibly hurt themselves or someone else.

Simple rule? Never let any form of chlorine come into direct contact with any OTHER form of chlorine, or any other chemical. There are a few chemicals, like borax, that don't react badly in contact with various forms of chlorine, but it's safer to assume that EVERYTHING reacts badly.