New to the Forum

[Traxl]

Hello everyone :)

My family and I recently rented a house in South Carolina with a 30' above ground pool in the back yard. The pool was filled with algae when we moved in. I tried fighting the algae, and finally gave up and started draining the pool. I am here to try and make sure the algae doesn't reappear, so my family can enjoy the pool as much as possible this summer.

Thanks for having me!

[PoolDoc]

1. Get a K2006 test kit ASAP, and post results.

2. Physically remove all debris (leaves, sticks, etc.)

3. Once all the debris is gone, begin adding 1.5 gallons of plain 8% bleach each EVENING.

[PoolDoc]

. . . membership upgraded.

[Traxl]

I had already ordered a K1005 test kit. Cancelled and placed an oder for the K2006. Hopefully I don't get two test kits. :)

I also ordered borate test strips and phosphate test strips. The pol should be empty and ready to clean in the morning, then I can start refilling it. Once it is filled, what order should I add chemicals to the water?

[PoolDoc]

What chemicals do you have on hand?
Do you have access to a Sams Club?
Do you currently have a SWCG (salt water chlorine generator) or any other type of feeder?

[Traxl]

1.) I don't have much on hand. 5 lbs of AquaChem Shock PLUS, 3 lbs of AquaChem Stabilizer, and around 5 lbs of 3" chlorine tablets.
2.) The nearest Sam's Club is about 40 miles away, and I am not a member.
3.) I do not have a feeder. I have been putting the chlorine tabs in the skimmer.

I had planned on hitting the commissary tomorrow for bleach, borax, and baking soda. Will probably have to buy all they have and wait for them to refresh their stock when they reopen on Tuesday.

[CarlD]

Please don't drain the pool...leave at least one foot of water in it. Above Ground pools use the water to hold the liner in place. And, if it's a round or oval pool, the water pushes out on the walls as part of the support. You may want to stake the wall supports with guy lines and tent stakes to keep them from falling inward with less water.

[Traxl]

Thank you for the advice. The pool is 4 feet deep, and has approximately 1 foot in the ground, to make the deck height level with the back door of the house. With this, should I keep the water level a foot above ground level? I am currently at 2 feet of water in the pool.

[CarlD]

I wouldn't drain the water. I'd follow the other advice to fish as much gunk out of it as you can and hammer it with chlorine. You'd be surprised at how effective it is. If you go to poolsolutions.com, our sister site, click on "Pool Guides" on the left, then click on "Can you kill algae with household bleach? (A demonstration)" you'll see a series of pictures of a pool brought from a science project/swamp to pristine.

[Traxl]

I stopped the draining at 2 feet, grabbed the water hose and a brush, and cleaned off all the algae I could from the pool sides. Once the debris settles, will remove as much from the bottom as I can using the vacuum head and gravity feed on the water (shouldn't remove more than an inch or two more.)

When all of this started, I put AquaChem Algae Eliminator Max in the water, with 2 pounds of Shock PLUS. After that, I added 1/2 a bottle of Sink & Sweep. When the flocculant didn't appear to work, I took a sample in to the local pool store, who said I ad high phosphates, and sold me a bottle of phosphate remover, and said to put 5 bags of Shock PLUS in the pool with the PhosFREE, then run for 7 days backwashing every other day. All this did was make the pool more cloudy, and eventually, the algae came back.

I'll start refilling tonight, and once I can run the pump again, will begin the recommended 1 1/2 gallon of bleach treatment. Once I get the algae in check, is there any particular order I should add chemicals, i.e., Borax & Muriatic Acid, Stabilizer, Baking Soda?

Thank you both for the help, it is most certainly appreciated!

[Watermom]

Post some good testing numbers when you get your kit and then someone can make a recommendation based on that.

[CarlD]

When all of this started, I put AquaChem Algae Eliminator Max in the water, with 2 pounds of Shock PLUS. After that, I added 1/2 a bottle of Sink & Sweep. When the flocculant didn't appear to work, I took a sample in to the local pool store, who said I ad high phosphates, and sold me a bottle of phosphate remover, and said to put 5 bags of Shock PLUS in the pool with the PhosFREE, then run for 7 days backwashing every other day. All this did was make the pool more cloudy, and eventually, the algae came back.

Oh, No! I HATE what I'm going to have to write! Virtually everything the pool store guys told you and sold you is WRONG and won't help. Sorry in advance!

Had you merely poured in several gallons of Liquid Chlorine (12.5%) you would have probably had a far greater effect. What you need to do is KILL the algae, and chlorine is generally the best thing for that. Regular bleach works just as well but you need 50% more of the 8.25% to get the same effect.

[Traxl]

I was beginning to think the pool store guy was leading me down a path that would be expensive and not necessary (should have trusted my gut), thank you for the confirmation. :)

PoolDoc originally recommended 1.5 gallons of chlorine per night to clear up the algae. What I was able to source is the 8.25% bleach, so does this figure still stand, or should I go with 2 gallons?

My intention is to add Borax to the pool per this thread (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/18597-Adding-Borax-to-Make-your-Pool-Resistant-to-Algae). Understand that I need to get the algae gone, and chlorine and stabilizer in check beforehand, but thought this would be a good time to go through the process, before the family has started using the pool.

Thank you again for the advice!

[PoolDoc]

Do NOT use the bleach!. Using bleach now may cause a variety of problems including stains.

It's unfortunate, but you did not mention either Sink and Sweep or Algae Eliminator Max in your list above. The listed chemicals weren't ideal, but would not have been a big problem If you'd listed Sink and Sweep or Algae Eliminator Max, I would have posted a quick response to encourage you avoid using those. Too late now! What you need to know, going forward, is that the Aqua Chem | Pool Time products are among the worst on the market. Many items in those lines are products you should NEVER use, either because they are highly diluted or because they will actually do things you don't want. A further problem is that, because the AquaChem | PoolTime products go as far as is legal to avoid identifying ingredients, you don't know what's in them this year OR whether the 2014 "Sink and Sweep" is the same as the 2012 "Sink and Sweep". As a result, having used this product successfully in years past does not guarantee you'll be successful with it this year, since it may not even be the same chemicals as it was before!

"Aqua Chem" | "Pool Time" Sink and Sweep is a mystery goo product made by ChemTura, also known for the BioGuard
'premium' line of dealer-only chemicals. Sink and Sweep has no identified ingredients appearing on either the label. The MSDS does reveal that it's "cationic", that is that the big part of the ion, when dissolved, is positive. This is significant, which I'll get to below. It is marketed as an 24 hour floc; reviews on Amazon (link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003VB862E/scouscho-20/)) suggest that it may actually work . . . if you use it correctly.

"Aqua Chem" | "Pool Time" Algae Eliminator Max is currently a 3% copper algaecide; but it may have been something else (Amazon review (http://www.amazon.com/review/R2F4BRYKD2MK2A))

We do NOT recommend either of these chemicals. But, since you've used them, you have no options. If you turn on the filter, or stir up the water too much while filling, you can actually make things much WORSE. So do this instead:

1. Stop filling for now. Add NO other chemicals. Tonight, post information what kind (make/model/sand, cartridge, or DE) filter you have.

2. Get several quarts of polyquat -- see this page for info http://poolsolutions.com/gd/polyquat.html Polyquat is a cationic algaecide that shouldn't react with the Sink and Sweep. You may be able to find it locally; if not order from Amazon. Links to Amazon on that page.

3. Tomorrow -Monday- evening, continue filling, but -- to avoid stirring up the water -- put the hose in the largest bucket you have, and place the bucket on the bottom of the pool.

4. Hopefully, by Tuesday PM, the algae will be dead and settled on the bottom. If not, go ahead and add a quart of polyquat.

5. Once the pool is fully, start the pump and filter. Immediately hook up your vacuum and begin slo-w-wly vacuuming the debris on the bottom. Have some one watch the pool return: if the vacuumed debris begins shooting back into the pool, STOP IMMEDIATELY.

6. If the settled debris passes through the filter, turn the pump off, and use your vacuum hose to set up a 'siphon' vacuum and vacuum the debris out onto the ground.

Good luck!

7. Remove as much from the bottom as possible. The problem with flocculents, like sink and sweep, is that with overdoses or if the formed particles go through the filter and are broken up, the floc can begin act in reverse, to make it HARDER to remove the dead algae.

[PoolDoc]

Re-reading some of this, it's not clear to me: was the Algae Max and the Sink and Sweep added BEFORE, or AFTER you drained?

[CarlD]

Just a note from me:

Ben's advice supersedes mine: Follow HIS advice, please--he's more on top of the subtleties of chemicals I do not buy and do not use!

[Traxl]

Thank you for the replies :)

Here is a timeline...

14 Apr - AlgaeMax & 2 pounds of Shock PLUS
16 Apr - Sink & Sweep
18 Apr - Phosphorous Reducer & 5 pounds of Shock PLUS
26 Apr - Drained pool from 44" to 18" (Depth verified with tape measure)

The pool was running continuously from the 14th to the 16th, and again from the 18th to the 26th. While running, I always kept at least one 3" Trichloro-s-Triazinetrione in the skimmer.

The pool has one skimmer, one return jet, a 16" sand filter, and a 1 hp single speed pump.

The owner said he replaced the sand last summer, and had algae then as well.

Right now I have a 30 foot round, 18 inch deep green pond. I have skimmed the surface numerous times, and every time I go through the pool, more algae floats to the surface. I'm a little hesitant to add anything to the pool (including water) at this point.

The quantities added were: 32 oz of Algae Eliminator MAX, 16 oz of Sink & Sweep, and 32 oz of Phosphate remover.

Thanks again!!!

[PoolDoc]

Ok, that's a relief. Let's redirect then.


1. Do not add water.

2. Buy 12 gallons of PLAIN 8% store brand bleach (Walmart?), 2 boxes of 20 Mule Team borax (Walmart?), and 1 gallon of plain 31% muriatic acid (Lowes, other hardware store) with NO sudsing or foaming additives. Also buy a cheapo OTO / phenol red testkit (yellow/red drops)(Walmart) and a trichlor floater (Walmart). Also, you'll need a small bag of DE powder to test / help your filter. You may not be able to get it locally, but you can get it from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002WKK6WI/scouscho-20/).

3. Test the pH levels.

4. If needed, use muriatic acid to lower the pH to ~7.0 - 7.2, to keep any remaining copper from staining. Mix the acid in a 3 - 5 gallon bucket: add 1 gallon of water, then 1/4 gallon of acid, and then 1 - 2 MORE gallons of water. Watch out for fumes; wear gloves and glasses. Once the acid is diluted, it will stop fuming. Add the acid around the pool, then rinse off any splatters with a hose. Then, take a brush on a pole, and stir the water to mix.

5. Once the pH is below 7.4, begin adding bleach, in 4 gallon doses in the EVENING. Use your acid bucket to dilute 1 gallon of bleach with 1-3 gallons of water, and pour around the pool. Once all 4 gallons have been added, mix with a brush on a pole. Wear old clothes (bleach EATS clothes and glasses).

6. Repeat evening doses, till the algae is dead. Once it is, fill the floater with trichlor and put it in the pool. Begin siphon vacuuming the pool to remove the settled algae. Add more water as needed to maintain levels.

7. One day after the last bleach dose, test chlorine and pH. Report results here.

8. Once you've siphoned as much settled algae as possible, begin refilling. Once the pool is full, turn the filter to the RECIRCULATE position and turn the pump on.

Your 16" filter is MUCH too small for that pool. Odds are the pump is too big, and capable of forcing the algae through the filter. Once this happens, it becomes much harder to remove the algae. My guess is, the algae particles get broken up into very small pieces that are hard to filter -- but I have no proof of that.

Once the pool is operating, TEST the filter, by (a) turning the pump off and switching to the FILTER position; (b) turning the pump on; (c) adding 2 - 4 cups of DE powder to the skimmer, (d) watching the pool return to see if the powder blows back into the pool. If it does, promptly return the filter to the recirculate position. If it does NOT, you are good to go. The DE powder will help capture the algae, but will make filter runs very short.

The tiny filter is the reason why you need to remove as much algae as possible, before filling the pool. Every year, we have several new PoolForum members who try to clean up algae, but force it through undersized filters, using their oversized pumps, and as a result, end up with cloudy pools for as much as 3 weeks!

9. Probably, before you get to step #8, you'll have your K2006. Report complete results once you have them. You may want to watch the testkit video series here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6uoMdT1vO11pgLbOSl99CY_BQXE1Jx6s

[Traxl]

PoolDoc,

Thank you so much!!!!! I will gather everything soonest, and start clearing up the algae tomorrow evening. :)

Thank you again for all of your help!!!!!

[Traxl]

The process has begun....

When I started, the pH was higher than the test kit could show. Took two doses of acid, approximately 1/2 gal, and it dropped to ~6.8 - 7.2. The color seems to be in between the 6.8 and the 7.2 on the test kit. This may be a little lower than what PoolDoc recommended. I then added the 4 gallons of Wal-Mart bleach, and mixed for around 5-10 minutes.

I took a couple of pictures before I started today, and will take pictures as I progress through this ordeal.

Thanks again to PoolDoc and everyone else that replied. Hopefully this gets rid of the algae once and for all. :)

[PoolDoc]

You can send the pics to poolforum@gmail.com; include the thread #23086

Thanks.

[BigDave]

Ben is absolutely right. 18" of water is not deep enough to safely add the acid directly to the pool. Diluting it first in a better controlled environment makes sense. Sheepishly, I didn't post that here - telling myself that we were already pretty far off topic.
I will still stand by A->W (unless it's already quite dilute). FWIW I've seen a drop of water dance on a volume of HCL and I've seen it explode splashing HCL all around.

[BigDave]

Perhaps the Acid -> Water posts could be moved into a new thread (China Shop?). I fear I've hijacked this thread, haven't seen the OP in a couple pages.

[PoolDoc]

Will do.

Moved here: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/23191

[Traxl]

After 3 doses of bleach, the algae appears to be gone, however the pool is still very cloudy. I picked up another batch of bleach, hopefully after a few more applications the pool will clear up so I can start adding water.

I sent two emails to poolforum@gmail.com, the first email has before and after pictures for the first night. The second email has a picture taken moments before the third dose was added.

Also, I received the K-2006, test results are as follows:
FC - .5 ppm
CC - 1.5 ppm
pH < 7.0 (6 drops to reach 7.0 on base demand test)
TA - 0 ppm
CH - 30 ppm
CYA - 0 ppm (the black dot never disappeared)


Thanks again for all of your assistance and patience :)

[Traxl]

Now we have an additional problem to report...

I noticed a wet spot near the pool this morning, and measured the water level this evening. We had some light rain today, so I don't know an exact amount, however I do know the pool lost somewhere around 2.5 - 3 inches of water in the last 24 hours. My gut tells me that I managed to rip the liner while brushing the algae, however the water is too cloudy to see anything to verify. My calculations say I have lost around 1200 gallons.

Does this sound like a possible (or probable) fix?

I hate to keep throwing chemicals in the pool if the end result is a new liner anyways....

[PoolDoc]

You might want to keep chucking bleach in in the evening, to avoid having it go green again. It DOES sound like it's the liner, but you might be able to patch it.

Wait 24 hours and see if you lose another 2+"

[Traxl]

Thank you PoolDoc.

I just put another 4 gallons of bleach in, hoping that sooner or later the water will clear up so I can inspect for tears in the liner. Will report the water level tomorrow evening.

[Traxl]

I can finally see the bottom of the pool, and am adding water so I can siphon vacuum out the dead algae. I also can see a small tear in the bottom seam where the wall transitions to the floor. The tear is in the area I would have expected, given the damp ground next to the pool.

Do you have any recommendations on which patch kit to use? I have noticed two main types; one with the adhesive already on the patch, and one with cement separate from the patch. I was curious if one would provide longer lasting results over the other.

Also, I currently have 0 CYA in the water, and would like to avoid getting the CYA levels too high. If I use a floater with tricolor tabs, I will constantly be adding CYA. Is the best way to avoid this simply increasing the CYA with store bought stabilizer, then testing and adding bleach as needed? I do not have a SWCG, so would I need to add bleach on a daily basis?

[PoolDoc]

You probably want to check out this thread:
http://pool9.net/liner-patch/ (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/13118)

There are photos, links to the patch kits on Amazon, and to a leak-test video.

[PoolDoc]

IMO, the easiest way to add stabilizer is to use dichlor. If you buy a 24# pack of bagged dichlor at Sams Club, and use 15#, you'll have a CYA level of about 45. You can gradually use the rest to maintain stabilizer.

[Traxl]

Algae is dead, liner is repaired, pool is filled, and the water is clear.

I ran the tests a few minutes ago:

FC - 19.5 PPM
CC - 1.5 PPM
PH - low (Acid Demand test - 6 drops to 7.4~7.6)
TA - 20 ppm
CH - 30 ppm
CA - 45~50 ppm

My thought was that TA would be the best starting point, is this correct?

[PoolDoc]

pH first!

Add borax, 3 boxes at a time, till you reach 7.0. Then 1 box at a time. Retest your TA *after* your pH reaches 7.4.

Add it slowly, since a borax plug in a pipeline is VERY hard to dissolve. (As long as the flow through your skimmer is not getting 'choked' you'll be fine.)

But . . . when you retest pH, do so using a 50:50 mix of pool water and DISTILLED water. FC=19 is high enough to affect readings with phenol red.
(distilled water at Walmart => www.walmart.com/ip/10315382)

[Traxl]

I wanted to give the pool a little time for the chlorine levels to drop. With my CYA levels, I think I should be running between 3ppm and 6ppm FC.

Here are the latest test results...

FC - 3.5 PPM
CC - 0.5 PPM
PH - 7.2 (Base Demand test - 3 drops to ~7.6)
TA - 40 ppm
CH - 40 ppm
CA - 45~50 ppm

When adding Borax, how long should I wait between application and testing?

[PoolDoc]

When adding Borax, how long should I wait between application and testing?

There's no definite answer; a really 'good' answer would depend on observing circulation in your individual pool.

But, 4 hours of pump 'ON' should be more than enough.