Slime behind Niche Light

[selectstar]

It is mostly black but is surrounded by a yellow slime. Has a rancid smell.

Is this a mold, fungus or algae? It breaks apart on contact and suspends itself in the water.
Pretty gross whatever it is.
Thx

[PoolDoc]

Most pool growths are heterogeneous, and encompass both bacteria and algae. Virtually all slime growths are like this. Terms like "green algae", "mustard algae", "black algae", etc. describe typical behavior of several types of organisms working together, rather than a homogeneous colony made up of a single type of bacteria or algae. A researcher I knew at Buckman Labs (originator of the polyquat algaecide) did some studies on "algae" and "slime" he pulled from his own home pool. My recollection is that the FEWEST different organisms he found in any sample was more than 20!

But . . . black/dark gray sludge/slime often indicates the presence of anaerobic bacteria (bacteria that grow in the absence of oxygen). This in turn indicates a lack of circulation in the area where such sludge appears. Some of the bacteria that can form in such situations are HAZARDOUS to pool users.

So . . . clean out the niche. Wipe it out with polyquat, if you like, as a sort of 'inoculation'. Make sure any water vents around the lamp are clear and open, so flow can enter. Chlorinate your pool heavily -- see the "Best Guess" chart for appropriate shock levels, and then maintain adequate chlorination all the time.

[selectstar]

Thanks. I started having problems late last summer. The water was actually clear and seemingly well chlorinated, but it began to take on a bad smell. I started seeing black and white/yellow growths (same stuff in the niche) around the skimmer face plates and under the ladder rungs. I closed the pool shortly thereafter using my usual routine. When I lifted the safety cover for opening this spring, there was a smell not like any other that I had never experienced in my prior 8 years of opening the pool.

I'm thinking the two have got to be related. I have since super shocked my pool with chlorine shock that has taken care of the bulk of the smell, but there is still a hint of it within the water and I cannot get the water to clear. It is very cloudy even after replacing all the cartridges with new and keeping my FC up around 12-15ppm for several days.

It seems that I am having a systemic problem vs an isolated one. Anyone have any thoughts?

[chem geek]

When I have very infrequently removed my pool lights I typically find yellow/white paper-like crud that breaks apart easily. It's probably white water mold though as Ben points out biofilms are colonies with many different bacteria and even other microorganisms. Circulation of the water in pool light niches is very poor so chlorine gets depleted there and all kinds of organisms can grow. That's one reason why it's very important to always maintain a minimum FC/CYA level in a pool since there are sources of potential pathogens available wherever circulation is very poor, though in practice it's mostly a source for where algae would develop again, especially for yellow/mustard algae. Thoroughly and completely decontaminating the niche may help, but it's almost impossible to ensure that you kill absolutely everything there. Nevertheless, it's one of the steps in trying to rid a pool of yellow/mustard algae and it sometimes works.

[selectstar]

Thanks for the input. Some pics to show what I have been dealing with, just FYI.
Last season before close.
https://googledrive.com/host/0BxZ4Hw29Sf3SMnRaUUhqaEt1RTA/ReturnLine01.jpg


After opening niche light a few days ago.

https://googledrive.com/host/0BxZ4Hw29Sf3SMnRaUUhqaEt1RTA/IMAG0103.jpg


https://googledrive.com/host/0BxZ4Hw29Sf3SMnRaUUhqaEt1RTA/IMAG0101.jpg

[PoolDoc]

I'll post more later . . . but chlorine smells almost always mean you do not have ENOUGH chlorine, so the chlorine can't stay ahead of the dirt.

Do this:

1. Run your filter on high 24/7, if you aren't already doing so.

2. Purchase a local OTO/phenol red drops kit (yellow/red drops). Use it to maintain chlorine levels; you want to reach OTO 'orange' (12 - 20 ppm).

3. Also purchase 6 gallons of plain store brand 8% household bleach . . . for EACH 10,000 gallons in your pool. Begin adding 2 gallons per 10K each evening.

4. Order a K2006 testkit (testkit page with Amazon links from my blue signature block below). Test your pool once you receive it.

5. After you get your OTO kit, tell us what your pH level is.

[selectstar]

Do this:

1. Run your filter on high 24/7, if you aren't already doing so.
Yes. 24/7 for a over a week now.

2. Purchase a local OTO/phenol red drops kit (yellow/red drops). Use it to maintain chlorine levels; you want to reach OTO 'orange' (12 - 20 ppm).
I have what I think is the OTO, when I last tested yesterday it was orangish brown

3. Also purchase 6 gallons of plain store brand 8% household bleach . . . for EACH 10,000 gallons in your pool. Begin adding 2 gallons per 10K each evening.
I was wondering adding more chlor would be necessary. I will try this tonight

4. Order a K2006 testkit (testkit page with Amazon links from my blue signature block below). Test your pool once you receive it.
I have this kit. See image. Before shocking, ph was about 7.1-7.2. Now it is low. Is this due to using the powdered bag shock?


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TLV3soe_gxg/U0b4Xx6qSKI/AAAAAAAAG0c/hskepJVe6Hk/s512/IMAG0111ed.jpg


5. After you get your OTO kit, tell us what your pH level is.
Appears to be lower than 7

[PoolDoc]

+ Here's an approximate OTO chart, for off scale results:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tq13B9mOkQ8/U0b_GIcHvjI/AAAAAAAAG04/sx8Yadz6s6E/s389/OTO-rev%252001.jpg

It sounds like your chlorine may be in the 30+ range; if so neither your pH nor DPD chlorine test results will be valid.

+ The test block you photographed is from a K2005 kit, not a K2006. You need a K-1515 kit to make up the difference.

+ Please test and report your CYA (stabilizer) level.

[selectstar]

My k2005 says cya approx 100. the test strips say approx 40-50. I've tested each twice with same result. My cya was about 80 last season before close. Upon closing I drained about a 1/3. I cannot see how it could be 100 per the k2005. I have not added any CYA. I did add the bleach as instructed last night. The smell of the water seems to have dissipated, but clarity and overall quality is still suffering. I did do the diluted test via k2005 a couple times before adding bleach.

1st go chlorine off the scale
2nd go with half/half dilution looked to be off scale but close
3rd go with .25 and .75 dilution looked to be about 2ppm

after bleach this morn
1st go chlorine off the scale
2nd go with half/half dilution looked to be off scale but close
3rd go with .25 and .75 dilution looked to be about 4-5ppm

Am ordering the k1515 but this is the best I have for now.
Again thanks.

[PoolDoc]

The smell + the difference between your OTO results (>20 ppm) and your DPD results (~16 ppm) suggest extremely high combined chlorine levels. Do this:

1. Check your pH using the test in the K2005. But, first do a 50:50 dilution with DISTILLED water. The pH result does not have to be adjusted, but read it quickly. The phenol red in the K2005 is compensated to ~10 ppm TC, or 20 with the dilution, but your TC may be higher than that.

2. If your pH is below 7.8, add borax, a box at a time, till you reach ~8.0.

3. Then, begin adding bleach -- but first tell me how many gallons you have OR what your the pool's dimensions are.

[selectstar]

18.5 x 38.5 Grecian 3ft shallow, 8.5ft deep. My assumption has always been 20-22k.
I did manage to get the water tested by a local store. This guy seems to be a straight shooter and I have no reason to distrust him.

After the bleach, I brought a sample to him this morning. The results follow.
CYA = 96 (Close to what I read from K2005)
ph = 8.1 (This blew me away considering it was below 7 before bleach additions)
fc = 10 (Said this is as high as he can test)
tc = 10
ta = 109
adj ta = 80
appearance = mod to severe cloudy (my assessment)
temp = 78
salt = not tested as I have not added any as of yet

Will retest ph this evening and post.
Hope this helps. Thx

[PoolDoc]

Your volume estimate seems reasonable. Your pH and alkalinity levels are fine for now.

So . . . go ahead and add 2 gallons of chlorine each evening. Test using the DPD tabs @ 1:4 dilution (multiply x5) every other day. Skip dosing at 20 ppm FC; resume @ 15 ppm.

Brush the pool completely.

Report FC & CC results once you get the K-1515

[chem geek]

Don't forget that to do the Taylor CYA test you should stand outside with your back to the sun and hold the tube in front of you looking straight down into it. You want strong indirect light for the test -- not direct sunlight and not weak indoor lighting.

[selectstar]

Several days now and the water has seemed to straighten itself out. It actually has a hint of bleach smell which is far removed from where it was and the cloudiness has dissipated.

This morning...
FC=7-8ppm on a half/half diluted test. It appears to be dropping, albeit, slowly. Using the instructions (multiply by 2), I think this puts me at about 14-16ppm
CC=7-8ppm (appears non existent)
PH=7.2, 7.3
TA=100
CYA still about 100. I still don't know how it got this high. My readings must have been incorrect at close last year.
Clarity on a 1(bad) - 10(perfect) is about 7-8

Going forward I plan to give more attention to the niche light and those hard to reach areas that have proven to be problematic.

Thank you for everyone who contributed their knowledge and insight to this problem. IMO, this forum is the single best resource out there.

[PoolDoc]

I'm curious how it's going, now.

Ben

[selectstar]

It's going well. I have all but completely converted over to BBB with SWG. So far so good.

The water seems cleaner and more polished than ever. I know my CYA is still high so I am keeping my chlorine a little higher than I normally would at about 7-8ppm.

I found that my ladder was also harboring some of the black mold/bacteria (or whatever it was) due to poor circulation. I have since drilled a couple small holes at the top and bottom of each rail with the thought that this may help circulate the water to the interior as people climb out of the pool.

Going forward, I will be more proactive with my light and remove it from time to time for cleaning. I've actually toyed with the idea of injecting straight bleach in the small circulation holes periodically to try and stay a step ahead this time.

Thanks for all the advice, that was the nastiest water/crud that I have ever encountered.

[PoolDoc]

I suspect that, if you can succeed in fully eradicating it, you won't experience problems going forward, due to your more consistent and educated approach to chlorination.