20k gal pool in Sol Cal. .....needs to be drained.

[pmaru77]

Good old Leslies did a test on the water and dissolved solids are at 5000. Plus 2 other readings are high. Of course Mr Lesiles said I have to drain the pool and start fresh. It's bee almost 10 years since the last time and first time i've drained the pool, so I'm not surprized. It is taking a lot of muratic acid to get the ph down to where is needs to be, and also I just had to kill the green algie on the sides of the pool by using HD algie killer, and it worked. The algie has been an issue for quite a while. but I had a pool service for 6 years and they took care of it. But now it is on my duties to take control. I've got the water looking real good and no algie at the moment, but it still takes mucho muratic acid to keep it going. I'm planning on ddraining the pool this month because I don't want to wait until the summer and then have a water rationing law squash me. We do have a lot of fiolage around the area and lots of crap gets into the pool over a year....and that cannot be stopped. So, am I on the right track? Cost is about 100 bucks for the water and whatever for the new che=micals.

[BigDave]

You've come to the right place to learn to take control of your pool. You'll need the right tools and you'll need to learn how.

Tools:
Number One Tool - must have: Taylor K-2006 (or K-2006C) FAS-DPD test kit (DPD color match is insufficient)
#2 Tool: OTO, Phenol Red test kit: Quick and cheap for everyday testing. Taylor K-1000 is good, others are adequate.

Education:
Read all you can here on the forum - especially the stickies in the testing, chlorinating, and algae sections (You'll have to log out while you are a trial user).
Read all you can at PoolSolutions.com - especially the Best Guess Chart - it explains the basis for the poolcare method taught here.

Assistance:
We will help you learn to care for your pool. You'll need to tell us about the pool before we can help. Pool water test results(did you order that K-2006 yet?). chemical history - tell us every thing that's gone into the pool (chemical names are way better than product names. Size in gallons or length, width, depth, shape. Pool construction - above or in ground, vinyl liner, plaster, fiberglass. Type of equipment - pump (model and size), filter heater SWCG, skimmers, drains, returns.

If you buy your testkits through the links in the "How to Get the Right Testkits for your Pool " thread if the testing forum, the PoolForum will get coin to keep the lights on.

Beware, draining a pool can be risky.

Whether you refill or not, learning and using the poolcare method taught here will make the pool easier to maintain and more pleasant to own.

Welcome, looking forward to hearing more.

[pmaru77]

I went to "My Profile" and was unable to edit or bring it up. No priviledges? So how do I add the info that is on the bottom of posts.

Eg: "12'x24' oval 7.7K gal AG vinyl pool; ; Hayward S270T sand filter; Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP pump; hrs; K-2006; PF:16"

I look forward to supporting this site, as I plan on being here as I will be maintaining the pool till I croak, or move. I have an inground kidney type plaster/cement? pool and it was dark blue but now it's several shades of blue, :)

[pmaru77]

OK, I guess I will list my setup here.

AG, plaster, 20k gal, kidney shaped swimming pool with spa, in San Diego.
Hayward Vac, Nautilus DE filter, Raypak RP2100 gas heater.

[BigDave]

Check out the "* * New Users! READ This FIRST * *" thread, it will explain how to get the sig line and how to get your access "upgraded".

BTW, did your order that K-2006 (or K-2006C) yet?

[PoolDoc]

. . . membership updated; signature info added and enabled.

[pmaru77]

Kit ordered, K-2006. also got the mag stirrer. Won't be here till next week though.

[pmaru77]

Finally got the test kit (K-2006) with the Taylor speedstir.

Pool results: TA 200, pH 7.4, CH too high (stopped drops after about 40), CYA off the charts (high, high, high), didn't check CL

Tap Water results: TA 160, pH 8 (but took 3 drips to change to good), CH 200, CYA off the charts (low, low. low), didn't check CL

I plan on draining in a few days, and need info on what to add when I do change the water.

Note: The pool looks good right now, but I'm still getting a little foam when the water splashes. That is because I added algie killer (from HDepot) to kill the algie stuck on the walls. My intent was to kill the algie before I drain, so as to not get it back when I refill. The water does seem to have color right now, but not sure. I've dumped the pool water about 10years ago, whole pool.

Any other data needed before I dump?

[PoolDoc]

Given your test results, draining and replacing would certainly be the easiest fix. Your fill water appears to be idea, or will be once you drop your pH a bit.

Remember, you'll have no stabilizer at first. If you use tabs to chlorinate, they will (1) add chlorine, (2) add stabilizer, & (3) lower the pH. Since you need all three actions, that would certainly make it easy. But, until you get some stabilizer in the water, the sun will strip chlorine very rapidly. Adding 1/2 gallon of 8% household bleach each EVENING will boost the chlorine enough overnight to 'keep' your pool in good condition.

Be sure to read the 'Best Guess' Cl/CYA relationship page, so you understand the trajectory your Cl levels will need to follow as your CYA rises.

Good luck!

[pmaru77]

OK, since the chlorine tabs take a while to add stabilizer, can I get some stabilizer as opposed to adding liquid chlorine every day (and for how long?)? Unfortunately I only have enough solution to do one more CYA test, I guess I wasted two tests that I (we) pretty much knew the answers to.

Where would I find stabilizer besides Leslies?

[PoolDoc]

Order the R0013 pint refill -- you can find it on the testkit page: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/14994

Do you have tabs now? What do you have on hand? (It's best to figure out how to use up what you've got -- it's generally illegal, and can be dangerous, to throw it away.)

How would you prefer to be chlorinating, a month from now?

If you have NO tabs or dichlor on hand, want to use bleach, and have access to a Sams Club, I'd recommend getting a 50# bucket of PoolBrand dichlor. By the time you've used 1/2 of it, you'll have plenty of stabilizer in the water, and your bleach will 'hold'.

Or, if you want to use tabs, get the PoolBrand 24# pack of dichlor shock + a bucket of tabs.

Regardless, it's often cheaper to use dichlor while needing stabilizer, since each pound of dichlor adds about 1/2 pound of BOTH chlorine and stabilizer -- 2 chemicals for the price of one! Obviously, this ceases to be a benefit once you have enough stabilizer.

[pmaru77]

I have

+ 3/4 container of 3" Pool Time tabs (25lb size) called stabilizing chlorinator (HD)

+ 1 1/2 gallons of liquid chlorine (HD)

+ 1 1/2 gallons of Muratic acid liquid (HD)

[Anthonye]

1/2 gallon of 8% in a 20k pool would only yield with 2 ppm. How is that enough when the FC will surely drop to 0 during the day, especially with no car.


Given your test results, draining and replacing would certainly be the easiest fix. Your fill water appears to be idea, or will be once you drop your pH a bit.

Remember, you'll have no stabilizer at first. If you use tabs to chlorinate, they will (1) add chlorine, (2) add stabilizer, & (3) lower the pH. Since you need all three actions, that would certainly make it easy. But, until you get some stabilizer in the water, the sun will strip chlorine very rapidly. Adding 1/2 gallon of 8% household bleach each EVENING will boost the chlorine enough overnight to 'keep' your pool in good condition.

Be sure to read the 'Best Guess' Cl/CYA relationship page, so you understand the trajectory your Cl levels will need to follow as your CYA rises.

Good luck!

[pmaru77]

I'm draining the pool as we speak. and need to know how to deal with the stabilizer, and how much. I'd like to use up the pucks, can I load the puck carrier with pucks and liquid chlorinate? or shoud I get stabilizer, and what kind and how much?

[PoolDoc]

1/2 gallon of 8% in a 20k pool would only yield with 2 ppm. How is that enough when the FC will surely drop to 0 during the day, especially with no car.

2 ppm is quite a lot, in fresh unstabilized water. Adding it in the evening allows it to clean the water thoroughly, before it's lost to sunlight the next day.



I'd like to use up the pucks, can I load the puck carrier with pucks and liquid chlorinate? or should I get stabilizer, and what kind and how much?

By all means, go ahead and use up the pucks you have. Continue using bleach each evening, until your chlorine lasts through the day.

But before you go buy new stuff, list everything you have, so we can figure out how to use up as much as possible, without messing up your pool. Be careful: it's not safe, and usually not legal, to put chlorine or some other pool chemicals in the trash!

When you list chems, include maker, product name, and % chemicals listed.

[BigDave]

Don't put liquid chlorine in with the pucks.

16lbs of pure trichlor in 20,000 gallons should give you about 50 ppm CYA after using it all up. When you say puck carrier do you mean a chlorinator that's plumbed in or a floater?

As PoolDoc said, starting up with the trichlor should work pretty well for you especially in a feeder. If it takes a day to fill, add bleach (or liquid chlorine) and mix it with a brush so it doesn't go green while filling.

- Sorry PD, I think I was posting at the same time as you - Dave -

[pmaru77]

Don't put liquid chlorine in with the pucks.

16lbs of pure trichlor in 20,000 gallons should give you about 50 ppm CYA after using it all up. When you say puck carrier do you mean a chlorinator that's plumbed in or a floater?

Floater.

==================================

In stock:

3" Tablets of stabilized chlorinator made by Pool Time, active ingredients- trichloro-s-triz....... 99%, avail chlorine 90%. I have 3/4 of 25 lbs. (HomeDepot)
Muratic acid from Kemtek HCl 14.5%, 1 1/2 gal (HomeDepot)
Liquid chlorine from Kemtek, 10%, 1 gal (Home Depot)

Where can I get trichlor (brand?) this weekend, and what would be the method of using it?

[PoolDoc]

BigDave was correct to caution that trichlor and bleach should NEVER come into direct contact with each other; bad things happen if they do!!

+ If you've got 15+ pounds of trichlor on hand, why do you need more right now? Use them in the floater if you have one.
+ Use the bleach you have same as 8% store bleach -- actually because the store bleach is probably fresher, it may be stronger, so use up the Kem-Tek first.
+ You probably won't need the acid for now. Be careful how you store it; tiny leaks can release enough fumes (hydrogen chloride gas) to cause SERIOUS corrosion to wiring, tools and equipment if you store the acid in a garage or other enclosure. Bagging in a garbage bag is always good. BUT . . . the 1/2 strength acid you have fumes MUCH less than full strength (31%) acid.

As far as future purchase, you probably need some borax to keep your pH up, while using the tabs: Walmart is good. Given your test results on the tap water, you really don't need to use washing soda (soda ash, pH Up) or baking soda (bicarb, Alk Up) since both increase your carbonate alkalinity.

I haven't seen undiluted Pool Time trichlor in several years, but if it's available to you, that's fine. The best prices I know of, for most of the country, are the Pool Brand dichlor (50#) or trichlor (40#) sold by Sams Club in many areas. The last time I checked, Costco was selling only diluted products, that should be avoided.

[pmaru77]

"Don't put liquid chlorine in with the pucks"

I have a floater, so if the pucks go anywhere, it's in the floater.
If I put liq. chlorine in the pool. I pour it in at the deepest part of the pool slowly with the pool pump on for at least an hour, same with muratic acid.

I guess I don't understand how you could put liq. chlorine in with the pucks? Is this with an in line puck holder?

[PoolDoc]

I guess I don't understand how you could put liq. chlorine in with the pucks? Is this with an in line puck holder?

The most common way, that causes problems, is when pool owners have chlorine tabs in the skimmer basket, and pour bleach or add cal hypo through that same basket.

Some years back, a PoolForum user reported doing this. He turned his back and started to walk away, only to here a KAPOW! When he turned back, his neighbor was pointing up in the air. When he looked up, he saw a small white skimmer lid that was beginning to fall back! Or at least, that's how I recall it. I believe that post may have been before 2006, so it would have been lost in the forum crash I had.

[BigDave]

Sorry for the confusion, I read this:
... can I load the puck carrier with pucks and liquid chlorinate? ... and became concerned that you might fill a feeder (plumbed in kind) with trichlor pucks and then top it off with 12% bleach. Hypochlorite in direct contact with stabilized chlorine can become quite energetic. (Boom!).
Sorry, it didn't make a lot of sense but I wouldn't want it to blow up in your face - actually blow up in your face. So... sorry if I insulted you but I'd sooner risk hurting your feelings than hear you'd been hurt.

[pmaru77]

I'm not that sensitive, I hope. I was not aware they even had plumbed in feeders until a day ago. I talked to a friend that was/is a chemist and he has the in line feeder also. So that means he uses pucks, but he dumps 1/3 of his pool water every 3 years.

To compound and confound things even more, the wife wants to resurface the pool because she doesn't like the looks of it. We had a dark blue pool, and now it's bloched with light streaks and spots. I think it looks cool, no pun intended, but she thinks it's flawed. I said this is not a good time to be saying this, waaaaa!

[PoolDoc]

If you want it resurfaced, I'd recommend refilling now, and resurfacing in the fall. There's a good chance if you do it now, you'll loose a lot of the swim season.

Also . . . if you want to avoid streaks, you probably need to go with white. If you go dark, odds are you'll get streaks again. If you want dark, you definitely need to wait till fall: it will probably take you that long to find a plastering contractor with a history of successful non-streaked dark plaster jobs!

[pmaru77]

I told the wife to CAN IT. There are bigger fish to fry around the house than a pretty color pool.

But it's that bad to get a dark pool? I suppose that is why the light blue is so popular. We took a hot air baloon ride several years ago, and went over Rancho Santa Fe ($2-20M homes) and saw several dark blue pools. But not close enuf to see any discoloration. What's that phrase, "once you go dark you don't go back?"

Thanks for the tip though. What causes the discoloration? Chemicals, I would guess.

[PoolDoc]

What's that phrase, "once you go dark you don't go back?"

Think maybe you're confusing "pools" with something else. Dark pools are a headache in most cases, but they look cool even though they usually get too hot in the summer sun.


What causes the discoloration? Chemicals, I would guess.

Nope. Plaster and dye qualities, plus installation technique. Some of the same 'streaking' occurs with white plaster, but you don't see it without the added dye.

[pmaru77]

OK, the pool was completely drained and it took 24 units of city water to fill the pool and spa. So far I have added 1 and 1/2 gallons of liquid chlorine and about 1/3 gallon of muratic acid. I also have the floater loaded with a few pucks. I'm using the pucks to get chlorine and more importantly the triclor so th CYA will come up to something readable. I have checked the pH before adding the muratic acid, and the pH was high, but it only took a few drops of #3 to get the test ok. That is by far the best I've had (easiest) since testing prior to the refill. So as it stands now, the chlorine is aok right now, and I think the pH is ok, but need to test after things settle down. So the plan is to monitor the chlorine and pH levels twice daily...in the am and in the pm. I figured I would wait and see how things go before I thest the CYA, becasue I assume there is none to speak of except what comes out of the pucks in the floater.

I have in stock, liquid chlorine, liquid muratic acid, tricoloro-s-.... pucks.

So what other tests should I do at this time that would be of use?

[pmaru77]

UPDATE:

I am a subscriber now. ($14)

I decided to run some more tests. K-2006 test kit

TA 15 x 4 = 60

CH 20 to 25 drops x 10 = 200-250

pH 7.9

FC 6 drops x 3 = 1.8 ppm ?

CC nothing

CYA nothing as expected

I'm on day 1 of pool refill.

How many days do I have to get things right before having trouble? No pool useage until May 1st.

Already getting nervous about no CYA. Should I go get product? and what? (HD or LOWES) and not Leslies.

[PoolDoc]

At this point, if you dump 1/2 gallon of bleach in the pool nightly, you'll be fine. Do it late though: the sun will strip the chlorine quickly!

Also, start adding acid AND baking soda. You need higher TA (or really, carbonate alkalinity) since you have a plaster pool, and a pH that's at least a little lower. Read the muriatic acid page, linked in my signature block. MA is better for your pool, and cheaper, but the fumes are BAD!

Do you have access to a Sams Club? If you do, see if they have the PoolBrand dichlor or trichlor there. Meanwhile, get a floater (Walmart!) and start using your tabs. Tabs are very acidic, so don't push your pH below 7.6.

[pmaru77]

I have HD liquid chlorine a $7 per 2 gallons. If I use 1/2 gallon a day, that is $100 month. Where am I wrong here? Is regular bleach cheaper?
Or is the daily chlorine temporary?

[Watermom]

What percent sodium hypochlorite is your liquid chlorine?

[pmaru77]

10 %

I did the calc's on 24 units of water and it turns out to be 19.8K gallons so I was spot on at 20K gallons. :)
I probably did the same thing 10 years ago.LOL

[BigDave]

I would keep the floater full of pucks and supplement FC with bleach in the evening as needed. You won't have measureable CYA until you've used most of your supply of pucks so don't waste the CYA reagent.

[CarlD]

Sounds like BigDave is helping.

[pmaru77]

There is water in the pool, I'm getting a decent chlorine reading, pH is spot on...monitoring morning and evening.....treating it like a new baby. It's kinda cool starting fresh, and actually taking care of it and starting to understand how things work. Kind of like getting a new girlfriend and getting to know her.