New Thread with my results of first test

[Tom.B]

Ok... I know I should just look at the results and read what they mean instead of the shortcut of just posting them here, but I cant't resist. Besides, y'all ask for them when I got them.

This is my first time with the Rockstar Test Kit, so let's see how I did...

FC 2.8
CC 0.4
pH 7.4
TA 70
CH 250 (this one I might have lost count of my drops)
CYA 40

Ther ya' have it. Yay me!

[PoolDoc]

Looks good.

The CC=0.4 may be a testing error, or it may mean you need to keep the chlorine a bit higher for the next few days.

TA=70 is a bit low, if you have a concrete pool, but fine otherwise.

[Tom.B]

Correction: Cal Hard is 370

I went back and retested :-)

I will also do a Phosphate test tomorrow.

I will start the search for a bleach supplier ASAP. I got nuttin' at the house right now.

[PoolDoc]

Unless you have a Taylor phosphate kit (preferred) or the Aqua-Chek . . . don't bother. The other kits I checked aren't accurate enough to be useful, unless your goal is simply to sell phosphate remover!

Taylor Technologies K-1106 Phosphate test kit (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003V4QUDI/scouscho-20/)
Hach Company 562227 Phosphate Test Kit (Aqua-Check) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004L4RPW2/scouscho-20/)

[Tom.B]

Unless you have a Taylor phosphate kit (preferred) or the Aqua-Chek . . . don't bother. [/URL][/B][/INDENT]

Of COURSE I do... Would I disappoint you?

QQ-Can I still use pool store chlorine until I find a good source for bleach? At this stage, it's just more convenient.

[PoolDoc]

QQ-Can I still use pool store chlorine until I find a good source for bleach? At this stage, it's just more convenient.

Pool store bleach, purchased this year, should be fine -- heat cooks of bleach, but it hasn't gotten hot, yet. Still, Walmart bleach is likely to be fresher.

Pool store tablets (trichlor) may or may not be OK -- read the label. Borates are a way to dilute the tablets so the store can make more $$, but they won't cause any pool problems at all. Copper is altogether different -- do not buy any chlorine with copper listed.

Pool store dichlor should be avoided -- almost all of it is now badly diluted, and some of the chemicals used WILL cause problems.

[BigDave]

FC 2.8
CC 0.4
...Yay me!Yay you indeed. One thought, testing chlorine with a 10ml sample instead of 25ml will more than double the tests you get from your reagents.

[CarlD]

Yay you indeed. One thought, testing chlorine with a 10ml sample instead of 25ml will more than double the tests you get from your reagents.

BigDave has it right. I saw that too. Use the 10ml setting for FC and CC instead of 25ml. There's NO need to test to .2 since .5 is easily good enough--and what most of us use for many, many years at a time.

[Tom.B]

Howdy Y'all,

It's been a while since my last post and I now seem to at least have a semi-grasp on what's going on. I can't thank you enuff for helping me.

Currently, I am still using Leslie's Powder Plus (75%), Chlor-Brite (stabilized 55%) and 3": tabs by adding a one-pound bag every second or third evening. It's still easier for me to still buy from them, and compared to how much money I have given them over the past 5-10 years (many hundreds per week) I feel like it's still better for me at this stage. However, I am still trying to figure out terms like dichlor, trichlor, and hydtroflatulants ;-) to try and "own" my water chemistry. Still, my previous algae problem has yet to return and we are currently swimming in 75-degre water in NC. YAY!!!


Here is where my chemistry currently lies:

FC-4.5
CC-1
TA-7.4
CH-390
CYA-33
Phos-125

I guess if I had any question it would be about the combined chlorine. Should it be at, or near, zero all the time? Mine seems to stay around 0-1.5.

I guess I thought of another one too: Should I try and bring the Stabilizer up some, or just let the Chlor-Brite and tabs sneak it up slowly over the summer?

[BigDave]

I don't think the TA reading looks right, is it 74? Is the pH 7.4? If so, what's the TA?
Power Powder Plus is Calcium Hypochlorite. With a Calcium Hardness of 390 (up 20 in a month), it's probably time to stop using Cal-Hypo. Have you found a source for bleach?
I'm confused by the CYA reading, how do you get 33? Also confused because CYA dropped while using trichlor(tabs) and dichlor(Chlor-Brite) for a month. Probably want to review the CYA measurement.
The consistent CC seems odd. Should stay about 0, maybe one drop - explained by the accuracy of the test. Do you cover the pool? Maybe rushing through the FC test? Maybe CYA is a good bit higher than 33 and FC of 4.5 isn't enough?
I my experience, hydroflatus causes only giggles in well chlorinated pools - but usually only when it's observed.

[Tom.B]

Oops... That's right. Ph is 7.4 and TA is 90. Type-O... sorry.

The CYA of 33 is really an estimate of what the level is when the dot disappears. It's higher than 35, but lover than 30. It may, indeed, be a testing problem because I am still new to the testing procedure and it does seem a little difficult to get the exact same, consistent, readings.

CC consistency is odd? It's always be 0 or 1 dropwise drops. Yesterday it was actually 3, so maybe it should be 1.5 instead of 1. But I don't know what I am looking for the optimum value needs to be either.

And no... We are not covering it, nor have I located (or even looked) for a bleach source yet, but I guess it's time to do so.

[Watermom]

You really don't ever want your CC reading to be over 0.5. If it goes over that, we typically advise shocking the pool. If you are adding chlorine every other evening, is your chlorine reading dropping to 0 between doses? With that low of a CYA reading, I suspect that it might be and that could be causing the CC. Without adequate CYA, you lose chlorine pretty fast and it doesn't take long for algae to start -- even before you can see it.

Your pH and TA readings look fine.

[PoolDoc]

All in Walmart detergent / household cleaning section:
8% Bleach => www.walmart.com/ip/13023480
Borax => www.walmart.com/ip/11027366
(Current box is mostly white, not green!)
Washing soda => http://www.walmart.com/ip/19407690 (= soda ash = pH Up)
Baking soda => www.walmart.com/ip/17043412
(12# bag = sodium bicarbonate, sodium acid carbonate, Alkalinity Increaser; some stores now have a large box of store brand baking soda, that may be cheaper.)

All in Walmart recreation section:
HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit => www.walmart.com/ip/17043668
(re-branded Taylor kit -- includes CYA test. Not available at all stores.)
cheap-o OTO kit => http://www.walmart.com/ip/24791469
(actual label may vary -- but they are all cheapo kits made by Chinese companies.)
HTH OTO kit => http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-3-Way-Test-Kit/17043605
(Same as Taylor K1000, without the box. Not available at all stores)

Lowes:
muriatic acid => http://www.lowes.com/pd_450723-1327-332_4294610251__

[Tom.B]

I have a 4# bucket of what Leslie's gave me when I asked for stabilizer (even though it doesn't say it... I think it says conditioner... I am at the office right now... I will look later and report). I will add it tonight.

More to your point. No, it doesn't drop to 0, but I don't check it before I put it in every other night either.

How much bleach do you keep in your stock at home? And how much of the other stuff?

[Watermom]

Probably best to check the chlorine and pH each day especially until you get your CYA to where you want and you kind of learn how your pool is going to behave.

In regards to your question about what I keep on hand at home ------ I typically keep 2 or 3 boxes of Borax and baking soda. I use Walmart 8.25% bleach and probably buy around 8 jugs at a time and store it in a cool utility room in my basement. That lasts me a couple of weeks, maybe a little longer. I live 5 minutes from a Walmart so no reason to store up large quantities. My pH tends to fall rather than rise so never need muriatic acid.

[Tom.B]

So you're saying that I need to raise my CYA level? To what?

[Watermom]

Usually around 50ppm is good for most pools.

[Tom.B]

The CYA I have is Leslie's conditioner/enhancer and claims a 30ppm increase per 2.5 lbs. per 10,000 gallons. So I will add all four pounds and see where I am in 48 hours.

[PoolDoc]

CYA dissolves SLOWLY. If you add CYA via the skimmer, and backwash or clean before you've run the pump 72 hours . . . you may lose the majority of what you've added.

[Tom.B]

Can I continue to add Chlorbrite to the pool while I wait for the CYA to dissolve?

[PoolDoc]

What's Chlorbrite? Leslie's had several chemicals with that name.

In general:

1. Never, EVER let any chemical (except maybe borax) come into direct contact the cyanuric acid. Be especially careful with cyanuric acid + calcium hypochlorite.

2. In general, as long as you follow #1 above, you can treat your pool normally while adding CYA.

[Tom.B]

This: http://www.lesliespool.com/leslies-chlor-brite-granular-chlorine-pool-sanitizer-multipack-bags/chlor-brite-granular-bags.htm

But that page say 99% while the bag says 55%. Oh jeez... I am afraid I know just enough to get me in trouble around here. Please bear with me while I am still learning.

[PoolDoc]

It could be 99% dichlor dihydrate which would be 55% available chlorine. If so, it's fine.

If you're not sure, post the EXACT ingredient names & % you see.

BUT . . . be sure to continue to use bleach, till you know. Don't let your pool go green, while you get answers to your questions!!

[Tom.B]

I don't have straight bleach, yet. I hope to get to Wal-Mart today to stock up. I gotta use what I got ;-)

[Tom.B]

It could be 99% dichlor dihydrate which would be 55% available chlorine. If so, it's fine.

That appears to be correct. So after 4# of CYA last night and a 1# bag of dichlor first thing this morning, here are the latest numbers. (and I think I am getting it right, but still need to go get bleach)

Free Chlorine 6.5
Combined Chlorine 0.5
PH 7.2
Total Alkalinity 90
Calcium Hardness 390
CYA (Stabilizer) 50-55

(Copy/Paste from my spreadsheet... sorry)

So I will check it again in the morning and see what, if anything, I lose at night and one more time tomorrow after work to check daylight loss. But I am feeling better about things. Algae seems to be gone (or at least under control) and let's hope I have the persistence to keep this up.

[PoolDoc]

Everything looks OK -- but be careful about using either baking soda (Alk Up) or soda ash (pH Up). With CH = 390, a heavy dose of either will precipitate calcium carbonate. Use borax to raise your pH, and you'll avoid that problem.

[Tom.B]

Everything looks OK -- but be careful about using either baking soda (Alk Up) or soda ash (pH Up). With CH = 390, a heavy dose of either will precipitate calcium carbonate. Use borax to raise your pH, and you'll avoid that problem.

Is it something I should address now? As in, go about actively trying to lower CH? Or will it lower over the summer as I replace evaporation or drain from rain? Or should I just be aware of it and switch to borax?

However, for three years I have been dumping Power Powder Plus (Cal-Hypo) in by the truck load. It explains why I never got a handle on things. I just saw it as some generic "shock"... Because I saw shock as shock. It was all the same to me. It's a wonder I am not in a worse place than I am now. A least... WAS... until about a month ago.

[PoolDoc]

No, don't try to remove calcium. It can be done, but it's a pain and not necessary in your case.

Just be careful about dumping soda ash / baking soda into the pool. If you stay away from the pool store, and listen to us, that shouldn't be an issue. But pool stores -- especially BioGuard stores with the "Alex" computerized dosing monster -- seem to love to recommend simultaneous large doses of calcium chloride and sodium carbonate.

[Tom.B]

So I will check it again in the morning and see what, if anything, I lose at night

FC=6.5 this morning. No overnight loss. (Water temp. 74 degrees)

[PoolDoc]

Sounds good.

[Tom.B]

and one more time tomorrow after work to check daylight loss.

Ok, so here's the latest. I did a complete work-up just for the practice.

Free Chlorine 5 (Loss of 1.5 PPM through the daylight)
Combined Chlorine 0.5
PH 7.2
Total Alkalinity 80 (down by 10)
Calcium Hardness 390
CYA (Stabilizer) 55+

It looks okay to me and seems to be trending to where you guys suggest it should be. I added another pound of dichlor (Leslie's ChlorBrite) for good measure... AND THEN... (see below)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So... I went to do my brushing I do a few times a week and there is still a covering of yellow on the bottom. I have, over the past few years, played it off to be pollen, or sometimes thought that it could just be the early stages of green algae. However, now it's time to take a serious look at what it is and try and catch it sooner than later.

I suppose I need to start a thread in the algae sub-forum (and will if you would like me to), but my question is: How can you tell if it's mustard algae? I don't see any high demands for chlorine, but I don't know if that is an indicator or not.

[PoolDoc]

Mustard algae will re-appear in areas where you've brushed or wiped it off. It is usually on the shady side of the pool, and will appear on vertical surfaces.

[Watermom]

I also think if it was mustard algae you would have probably lost more chlorine today than just 1.5ppm.

[PoolDoc]

Not necessarily, in the early stages.

[Watermom]

Ok. Didn't know that.

[Tom.B]

While I am not sure it's on the vertical sides, it's certainly on the angled sides. However, it's not in a shady area or any real area in particular. It's spread evenly throughout. There are some green/yellow spots on the stairs, but that's all I can see in the way of concentrations.

[Tom.B]

Mustard algae will re-appear in areas where you've brushed or wiped it off. It is usually on the shady side of the pool, and will appear on vertical surfaces.

Is there any way to know for sure what algae I have?

[BigDave]

If it's yellow-ish (brown-harvest-yellow-chartreuse), it lays on the bottom and brushes up easily then returns, and is resistant to chlorine, I'd call it mustard algae.

[PoolDoc]

Is there any way to know for sure what algae I have?

Not really. It's not a species of algae; just a 'behavior' of some algal biofilms. Some years ago, I spent quite a few hours chatting with a senior researcher at Buckman Labs (inventor of polyquat). He told me that every single case of algae he'd studied, including samples from his home pool, involved more than 10 species of algae AND bacteria.

But Dave's description of the 'behavior' is accurate, with the addition that it's (a) often found on the bottom AND sides, and (b) typically is first found in shaded areas of the pool. It *will* 'bloom' and turn the entire pool green if not controlled.

[Tom.B]

Okay then... I suppose that I have it then. I guess I will read about it here and see what I can do about it.

[PoolDoc]

Mustard algae options:

1. Run chlorine levels at the 'algae' or 'shock' level continuously -- see http://pool9.net/cl-cya/ -- and brush a lot.

2. Run normal chlorine levels + maintain phosphate levels below 125 ppb (0.125 ppm).

3. Use lots and lots of copper, turn everyone's hair green, and stain the pool.

I'd recommend #1 first, especially if you've never had mustard algae before. If your pool is not one of the not-so-lucky ones prone to mustard algae, it may stay gone after you've cleaned it up.

But if you find you're struggling to keep it away, we can look at option #2. However this requires managing phosphate additions to your pool from multiple potential sources, including the fill water.

[Tom.B]

I belive that I *may* have had it for a while, but my phosphate level is low. I will run up the chlorine levels this week and see what happens. I read a thread about using commercial algae treatment, is that off the table or should I just try the chlorine method first?

[PoolDoc]

How do you know that your phosphate levels are low (< 125 ppb)?

If you didn't test with one of these two tests, you probably do NOT know. There are some VERY inaccurate tests being sold. Keep in mind, pool dealers make money by selling you chemicals, NOT by solving your problems. If they DO solve your problems, you won't see them very often. I'm not saying there are no honest dealers, but I'm saying that the ONLY incentive pool dealers have to be (a) honest and (b) accurate is their own moral values. Financially, honesty will hurt them rather badly.

The AquaChek is easier, but only useful below 500 ppb; the Taylor is 'fiddly' to use -- the test cell tends to fall over -- but more functional over a full range.


Hach (AquaChek) 562227 Phosphate Test Kit (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004L4RPW2/scouscho-20)
Taylor Technologies Inc K-1106 Test Kit Phosphate (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003V4QUDI/scouscho-20/)

Still, getting your chlorine levels up, is the first step.

[Tom.B]

You keep mentioning this, and as I said on Post #5, I have the Taylor kit and ain't afraid to use it :-D

So all I can tell you is that the phosphate levels are at, or near, 125 based on that kit and hasn't changed much since I started testing (at the beginning of this thread). ;-)

[PoolDoc]

My bad.

The different threads are all running together in my head.

I *think* with low PO4, moderate algae levels of FC and brushing should fix the problem. Please keep in mind that you have to maintain algae levels of FC for a week or more AFTER there's no visible trace of algae remaining. Then, drop back to appropriate FC levels, given your CYA of 60 (?).

[Tom.B]

50-55 after some rain, but I will check again when I get home today and get to Wally World for more bleach to keep it up.