Closing with "pink slime and white water mold"

[CarolineM]

Been using the BBB method several successful years with the help of this forum. Closed the pool (mesh cover) and then found the pink slime/mold in the pump filter. Never had this problem before!
Can I put off fixing this problem until spring???

[PoolDoc]

Could.

If you can easily restart your pump and filter, I'd recommend leaving the cover on, but going ahead and cleaning up the pool. Is that an option for you?

[CarolineM]

Thanks so much for your reply, PoolDoc! The pump is still running - I added 2 - 121oz bottles of Clorox (the new 33% stronger), and tested one hour later - 0ppm showed up, so I added 3 more bottles and tested the next morning and had only 1ppm - took sample to pool store and they showed the same. How can I kill it without brushing? I always have some mustard algae in Spring - can I just wait and kill it all at once? Here are my numbers:
CL - 1 (0 by now)
PH 7.6 (after adding 1/2 box borax)
TA-120
CYA 45

25,000 vinyl IG

[CarolineM]

PoolDoc, please help! Will I be able to kill all this stuff in the spring??? Wanting to turn off the pump and winterize, but I'm afraid!

[CarlD]

Have you looked at our Best Guess table? With a CYA of 45, you need to maintain an FC of 15 at least. If it's a concrete pool you can safely go higher.
I'm not sure what the exact new stronger bleach is, but I'm going to assume it's 8.25%. Now with your pool, each gallon will add about 3.3 ppm of chlorine, so you'd need at least 4 1/2 gallons all at once just to get it to 15 if you didn't have algae...then it gets consumed killing algae.

If I were you I'd be planning on adding up to 5 gallons 3x a day until I could maintain an FC of 15ppm. Or, if you can get 12% liquid chlorine, each gallon will add nearly 5ppm, so I'd plan on adding up to 3 gallons of that 3x day.

[CarolineM]

Thanks for your reply CarlD! Guess I'll have to reopen the pool - peeked under the cover yesterday and it already looks like a swamp :(

[CarolineM]

Oh my goodness!! Took the cover off - green swamp - added (5) 121 oz 8.25% Clorox two hours ago - just tested and showed 1.5ppm!!!!! Adding 4 more now. Can this really be happening?? Been scooping out chunks of green slime for 2 hours - using kneehigh hose in the skimmer - getting clogged every 10 minutes - rinsing and replacing. I'll have to take the hose off skimmer for the night - will my filter blow up???

[CarlD]

Gotta get that junk out of the pool.

[CarolineM]

Tested this morning and found "0" CYA - it was 45 a few days ago. Is that possible? Expected the sand filter to have way high pressure this morning, but it didn't go up - could I have a filter problem? When I turn off the pump water rushes back into the pumps skimmer - it loses prime and I have to add water to get it started again. Thanks for your advice!!!

[CarlD]

MASSIVE amounts of algae have been known to consume CYA and leave (I think) ammonia. If the filter pressure didn't go it, it's filtering--but you may have a leak in your plumping. It should be self-priming.

[CarolineM]

Thank you Carl!

[CarolineM]

Think we should rename the thread NOT closing with pink slime/wwm! To date have used 41 bottles (121oz/8.25%) Clorox. Water is finally starting to clear - can almost see bottom of deep end. Have brushed every day. I'm still trying to maintain 15ppm chlorine, but with my CYA dropping to 0, will this hurt the vinyl liner? Do I need to raise the CYA now or wait till spring? Does the mesh cover let in enough sunlight to matter?
Thank you for encouraging me to go ahead and clean this mess up! I appreciate your help! Never seen anything like it!

[PoolDoc]

(41) 121oz bottles of 8.25% would be about 130 ppm on your pool -- that is definitely in the range of normal consumption once the pool goes swampy.

1. If your pool is covered, don't add CYA yet. If your pool is uncovered, I'd recommend installing the mesh cover, but leaving the corners accessible, if you can do this. It's much easier to clean up an algae-only swamp covered, than it is uncovered. When you're ready to vacuum, you can just unhook and flip back one side.

2. Have you been testing CC levels? If not, you should. It's possible your CYA has been converted in part to ammonia. If so, that consumes huge quantities of chlorine, during cleanup.

3. I'm sorry I haven't chimed in sooner, but I was waiting to get more definitive results on using phosphate removers in conjunction with winterization. Keeping your phosphate levels below 125 ppb during the pool season can be very difficult, since phosphates can enter the pool from multiple sources -- my own local potable water has ~2ppm or 2000 ppb phosphates! But during winter, you are NOT constantly adding phosphates, so it may be practical for you to drop your phosphate level < 125 ppb, and then be able to keep it there till spring without any further effort.

A pool with very low phosphates is not algae-proof, but it is quite algae resistant, and *should* be easier to maintain. Very likely, you can achieve that for less than $100. If you're interested, let me know. But keep in mind, I have not fully tested this method myself yet.

[CarolineM]

Thanks PoolDoc! I have the mesh cover on - doing as you said. When I tested 0 CYA, took a sample to Leslies - they showed 45 CYA - took another sample to another store - they showed 25 (lol) I ordered new reagent and retested - it's 0. Leslies also tests phosphates - they showed 0 (for what its worth). Only lost 2 ppm chlorine overnight - I put 1 bottle Clorox in this morning and its holding so far at 15 ppm. I'll try the phosphate stuff if you think I should. Oh, meant to ask, should I put my Polaris in while shocking? I've scrubbed it and soaked in Clorox. Thank you!

[PoolDoc]

Don't buy any phosphate remover, yet. I've been testing phosphate testkits, and have seen some sketchy results. Instead,

1. buy a Taylor phosphate testkit;
2. test BOTH your pool and your tap water;
3. call your water company, find out the phosphate level in your tap water, and use that to validate the results.

It's unlikely your phosphate level is actually 0 (ie, less than 125 ppb PO4) -- algae simply does not thrive in that situation. You'll need to do some accurate testing FIRST, to see what your options are. The specific PoolForum / Amazon store page for the test kits is http://astore.amazon.com/poolbooks?_encoding=UTF8&node=11

[CarolineM]

Oh man, what is going on with my pool? When I do the PH test at first it looks ok - 7.6, THEN it turns a PURPLE color - using the phenol red. Tested with the Leslies kit - using R0014 and it does the same thing - at first looks like 7.6 then goes to deep red. Still holding my chlorine at 15ppm, but until now my PH tested normal! Pool is clearing, but now there's a ring in the skimmer - kind of looks like mud. Could that be from dead white water mold??? Had this pool 15 years and have never had these problems! Help!

[PoolDoc]

Perfectly normal result, when you have very high chlorine levels. High levels of chlorine convert "phenol red" to "chlorophenol red", which is a different indicator. Don't worry about it! If you are using nothing but bleach, your pH won't change too much.

What's the texture of the ring in the skimmer? (It could be organic debris, from all the algae & slime . . . including white mold.)

[CarolineM]

Thank you so much PoolDoc! I was SO worried! The ring in skimmer is kind of like mud - I clean it off and it reappears daily. Hopefully just organic debris. Pool is completely clear now, but can still smell the combined chlorine - can't see anything to vacume out - will brush again today and continue to maintain 15ppm. Ordering phosphate kit today - but, won't rain add phosphates?
Thank you PoolDoc and CarlD - don't know what I would've done without your help!!!

[PoolDoc]

Rain can add nitrates (another algae nutrient), but I don't believe it adds phosphates.

That said, I have not fully explored the avenues by which phosphates enter the pool. However, I'm sure the two primary routes are treated fill water (well water wouldn't normally contain phosphates, but 'city' water usually does) and phosphonate based metal / stain control products. A third route are United Chemical's products. Many of those contain phosphates, apparently as a detergent to improve chlorine & bromine penetration of algal biofilms.

The issue with city water is the reason we'll need to test BOTH your pool water AND your fill water.

[CarolineM]

Well, brushed the pool a couple of days ago - it looked so good I almost didn't brush - the water is crystal clear - but there was the stuff again - it looks like clear mucus - just saw a little bit when brushing the deep end. How can it still be there?? I'm beginning to think that Clorox alone is NOT going to kill this stuff!

[PoolDoc]

Chlorine doesn't penetrate slime quickly -- the slime is a protective adaptation of the organisms producing it, and is designed to protect them against environmental threats. Brushing is important, because the slime is usually adherent, not free-floating, and brushing not only knocks it loose, but it disrupts it so chlorine can reach inside more easily.

But the nice thing about treating covered pools off season is that you don't have to be quick -- slow is OK. Just keep the chlorine up high and brush occasionally.

There *is* another option, but I don't usually recommend it. Monochloramine, which can be formed in the pool, by adding BOTH chlorine and ammonia while keeping the pH high, penetrates slime layers much, much better than regular chlorine. But it's tricky: if the pH is not high enough, you get dichloramine or even nitrogen trichloride, which are useless and stinky. And, if you don't get the ratios right, you'll use up both ammonia and chlorine, as you oxidize the ammonia, and end up with nothing in the pool. Even worse, when you're done, monochloramine is very irritating to swimmers, so you have to get rid of it.

But, if you're going to use monochloramine, winter's the time. The process would be:
1. Shock and then brush the pool.
2. Add borax till your pH reaches 8.0
3. Add polyquat to prevent growth, and then let the chlorine drop.
4. Once the chlorine is 1.0 or less, add the ammonia (Yellow Out, Mustard Master, etc.) and a 'booster' dose of borax, to make sure the pH is high. Yellow Out is available on Amazon. Be *careful* -- most of the other "Yellow" products are sodium bromide, which won't help you.
5. Add bleach (instead of cal hypo) per label instructions, using 1 gallon of plain household bleach to replace each pound of cal hypo.
6. Wait 1 - 2 days, then brush.
7. Begin dosing with chlorine to maintain TOTAL chlorine levels above 5 ppm. Combined chlorine (monochloramine is a combined chlorine) levels will drop over time, and free chlorine levels will increase.

But, I'd really, really recommend simply keeping chlorine high for awhile, and brushing occasionally instead.

[CarolineM]

Thanks PoolDoc - I was ready to give up! I'll keep on trying :)

[PoolDoc]

How did this work out for you?

[CarolineM]

I kept the shock level up until late December. Used $300 worth of clorox! Pulled back the cover in March and vacumed and brushed - didn't see any. Opening tomorrow so we'll see if it shows back up. That's the worse stuff I have ever delt with! Thanks for checking on me, PoolDoc! Sure did appreciate all your help!

[PoolDoc]

I kept the shock level up until late December. Used $300 worth of clorox!

Ouch! But I'm glad it worked out for you. Let us know how it goes this season.