I'll try again - need help to balance and close

[CoffeeBean]

I've been a member of the Forum for a long time but haven't been on board for a couple of years. I need some advice and posted the other day. When no replies came - which is unusual in my experience - I checked and it said that the thread is closed. Maybe I hit the wrong button or something but below is what I posted along with the #s update from today, the 17th.

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Trying to close but out of practice - help!
It's been a couple of years since I posted here. Two since I even opened my pool due to travel (last) and health (this) year. We have a Doughboy deep end 18,500 vinyl liner, sand filter, Hayward pump set up. After years of fighting the winter cover/clean thing we purchased an Aquashield Safety cover in the fall of 2011. Last summer's water was clear & clean despite not opening. Over the past winter the gaskets between the panels slipped allowing dust, dirt, rain, etc., into the pool. Although it was still clean for most of this summer, a couple of weeks ago I noticed that the water had a substantive algae growth. So...I dug out my PoolForum notes and set to work.

I've shocked, polyquated, (but...had to use something else subsequently because stores out of polyquat.), flocked, vac'd (from inside the pool due to the cover), added stabilizer, and now have nearly clear water. (Ugh. All this hard work just to shut it down soon)

Last night's #'s before adding 2# of stabilizer/This morning's #'s after 16hrs on filter:

FC - 3/ 2.5
CC - 1/1
TC - 4/ 3.5
pH - 7.4/7.2
Alk - 100/70
CYA - 0/0
temp - ?/63 (from 69 1 week ago)

(TODAY'S #s after adding 1/2# shock last night)
FC - 5.5
CC - 0
TC - 5.5
pH 7.2
Alk - 100
CYA - 0 (I just added another 2#)
temp - 61


Due to the fact that removing the Aquashield panels is not effort-effective at this point and I need to close for the winter we did not remove them but the end panels are open. I smell a strong chlorine odor out there this morning as well. (The chlorine odor is almost gone this morning - the 17th)

What do I need to do now to get it stabilzed so that I can shut it down?

Also, I noted in Watermom & Carl's shut down notes re: adding CL during the winter but since there is no pump, how does it get circulated?

When I lifted the lids, there was a green algae line at the then water line. That brushed off easily. There also was black mold like stuff around the top of the liner, under the rails, and above what would've been the normal water line had the pool been open. Some of it cleaned off but it left a stain. I tried using the Stain free Vit C stuff and even straight CL on a white rag but nothing took it off. The liner was brand new two summers ago (last time I opened). What was it and is there anything I can do to get it off?

As always, I appreciate the hard work & dedication of all who run this site and contribute to it. And I thank you in advance for saving my behind.

[nefretrameses]

Bean,

I saw your post yesterday. The Mods are probably busy, as you know. My pool stays open all year, but I recall a few items from reading in the forums.

First, CYA takes a while to dissolve so that it will register in a test sample. How did you add it? The preferred method is to put it in a sock in front of a return. If you added it to the skimmer, it's probably stuck in your filter so don't backwash for a week. I don't know how big your pool is so its hard to say what concentration you should expect with 4 pounds of stabilizer (CYA). Do you typically open to a green pool? If so I don't think I'd worry too much about stabilizer. My understanding is that long term algae growth over winter converts it to ammonia and creates a huge chlorine demand on opening.

I've seen recommendation to close after your water temp is < 60 degrees and to open before it is > 60 degrees to limit algae growth. If you can dose with bleach until it freezes, you should have less trouble opening. Try to add at several points around the pool. You may need to dilute it to prevent bleaching your liner with no circulation.

I'm not sure about your stain, but I'd bet it's long term algae growth.

Try bumping this post until you get a definite answer.

[kelemvor]

I agree that the black and green your are seeing is probably algae stains as nefretramses mentioned. You can try bringing your water back up to shock level (10+ with 0cya) and getting some on the affected areas and hitting it with a brush some more.

As far as the cya you've added not showing up, according to my calculation on an 18.5k gallon pool that 4 lbs is only going to get you 26ppm cya once it's fully dissolved. I wouldn't bother with polyquat while shocking, the chlorine is just going to eat it along with the funds in your wallet.

For your question about circulating chlorine with no pump. Use a stick, brush, or other tool to stir up the water and mix it in. Do your best to pour it in different spots and/or mix as you go. If you pour a bunch in one spot and don't mix it you might lighten your liner in that area.

[CoffeeBean]

Nefretrameses & kalemvor,

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.

Nefre...Yes, In my frustration, I zoned out and read the instructions on the CYA jug and the 1st 2# went into the skimmer. Then I remembered using a filter bag and hanging it in front of the eyeball like you mentioned.

So far the CYA is zero after 4# of it. I added another 1.5# tonight (all that's left. The stores are out too) I've been in the pool a couple of times in the last 2 weeks trying to vac it up that way. Having the polycarb safety dome on it means I can't walk around the perimeter to vac normally. I tried putting straight CL on a white washcloth to see if it would remove the black staining but nothing. Perhaps they'll fade with time and sun next season.

I've not had so much trouble getting the pool balanced as I am this time. I get one set of #s in line and another one goes out. Today the pH is 7.2 so I must find some 20 Mule team tomorrow.

I wasn't aware that shocking overrides the poly. Thanks for that tip.

[CoffeeBean]

I'm getting ready to close my AG pool. I finally got the water balanced after having a stubborn algae bloom. My fault. We have an Aquashield cover and I didn't even open it last summer or this until I noticed the green water.

Could someone explain what a "weir" is?

I have a Hayward sand filter. CarlD mentioned removing the valve and placing a "travel/storage retainer" that stabilizes the intake tube. I'm assuming by valve you mean the thing that the handle in on that one twists to select the filter mode? I've not removed the top for the winter before (and the decal shows it) but I do remove the lower plug and tip the filter so that any water runs out. Is it better to remove the top? Where does one find a "travel/storage retainer?

Our pool is surrounded by trees and in western PA we get snow and freezing temps. I've been covering the pool filter and heater with tarps over the winter. Haven't noticed any problems with doing that yet. I do remove the pump, hoses, and Clorinator jug which I no longer use since being converted to the BBB way but since the pipes into and out of the heater are drilled for the tubing, I still hook it up.

Another question although with the Aquashield is probably moot for me...Why an Aquadoor if the water level is below the skimmer and the vac hole anyway? If it rains into the skimmer, the water just goes out the open hole in the bottom. I tried a gizmo one year (before the top) but it just popped out. Tried an Aquadoor too but I didn't drop the water. The ice crushed it into shards.

Thanks for the answers in advance.

CoffeeBean

[Watermom]

The weir is the flap that opens and shuts on the front of the skimmer that allows leaves and debris to float into the skimmer basket but then prevents it from floating back out.

As far as a gizmo or whatever in the skimmer, I don't use one. The water level is lowered below the skimmer and return so I don't feel the need.

I do not know what the "travel/storage retainer" is that you mentioned. Sorry.

[CoffeeBean]

Thanks Watermom for your reply. :-)

[CarlD]

That gadget I described is used to ship a new filter without an sand in it to keep the internal plumbing in place. I used it for years till it finally broke and now just let the sand hold it in place. I'm a strong believer in taking off the multivalve--the device on top with the handle. I take the O-ring surrounding the m-valve and lube it with teflon lube special for O-rings. I then put it in a ziplock bag for the winter, and the m-valve is drained and stored in the basement.

I've never had the aquador break, but the problem is ice in the skimmer. IF enough ice forms to block the bottom of the skimmer, if more ice forms in the skimmer it can bust it. Some take a kid's noodle, cut it up into pieces and stuff the skimmer with it. That way, any ice formed has to push against the foam, and not as much water can get into the skimmer.

[CarlD]

Bean, Sorry, but I've been very tied up all this season with other issues going on and Pool Forum has had to be back-burnered.

First, what is "shock"? Is it cal-hypo, di-chlor, liquid chlorine?
Second, CYA can take up to a week to show up in measurements. What are you using to test CYA? Not strips, I hope. Strips are virtually useless for that.
Third, on an 18k pool, 2 # of stabilizer when your CYA is 0 is going to do much. 6-8 pounds may actually get you a reading, but, again, you'll need to wait a week.
Fourth, in closing instructions I always suggest you raise and keep FC at shock level--with a CYA of 0, that means 10ppm. CYA from 0-30, the FC should be 12ppm, not the 5.5 you've hit.
Fifth, I'd add 2 gallons of 6% bleach immediately to get your FC to 12ppm.
Sixth, review the stickies here on closing a pool. I've never been one to suggest adding bleach over the winter since I'm in NJ, and it's not necessary here...I've never done it.

Hope this is a start.

Carl

[CarlD]

I've merged your two threads. Please don't start new threads on the same topic, "bump" them instead. Sorry we haven't gotten to your problem. I've been tied up with other issues.

[CoffeeBean]

Hi CarlD,

Sorry to hear life's gotten in the way of water for you. Hope it improves. :-) Thank you very much for the info. It really helps me understand. Chemistry was never my forte. I *have* read the stickies - I printed them out years ago and keep them in a binder.

I finally now have the water clear. BTW, I don't know what "bump the thread" means. When Nefretrameses suggested doing it to get a response, I looked for a definition on the Forum before I posted again but didn't find it. Could you please explain where I can find out how to do it? I don't want to do something I shouldn't.

I've been using Cal-hypo for shock but usually use just Clorox to maintain. I finally got the CYA cranked up to 38 after multiple applications. The FC was 3-4 yesterday. (Halfway between 3 & 4)

I'll add more Clorox today. The temps got really chilly and the pool water temp went as low as 55 but the weather got hot again here in western PA and so the water is warming up also. I'll just maintain it until the temps and the water temp is consistently below 60 degrees then shut it down for the winter. I won't make the same mistake again by not opening and treating the water.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer.

CoffeeBean

[nefretrameses]

"Bump the thread". If you have not gotten a response at all, a partial response, or a response that is not certain (like "I think this is right but you should get an answer from a subject matter expert or Moderator), you can get the thread to show up as new by replying to your own thread. Ask the question that has not yet been answered. Doing so places it back in the "New Posts" queue. The New Posts is where you can see posts that you have not yet reviewed. That is usually how you can get an expert/Moderator's direct attention. Sometimes Moderators/experts are away from the forum for various reasons, bumping the thread "brings the question back up".

[CarlD]

Yeah, it's just that simple. Add a new reply to the thread and when I hit the "What's New" button it will be at or near the top of the list. On other forums, covering other topics (say, like for fans of '66 Mustangs) someone just might post a reply that just says "bump". But we tend to frown on that here.

My life hasn't been bad, it's just been very, very busy. Getting my eldest off to college for the first time (!), working on some other family stuff, lots of "handyman" stuff (I've got a "honeydew" list that includes refinishing the front double door, and replacing faucets, as examples). My younger child had been ill and required lots of hands-on tutoring by me to make sure he didn't lose a year. He's fine now and thrived with all the personal instruction, and is at the top his class. Plus just a lot of family paperwork as well.